Liverpool FC Forum

by **Matt D** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:58 pm

Alright maybe Moaning maybe a little harsh word to use but from reading a lot of threads over the last couple of weeks, some people are getting far to stung up about Cisse and Baros needing to score. Of course that is what they are being paid for, but not only that - also to set goals up etc... i would say Baros and Cisse are probably just above average at the moment for scoring but lets look at the lucky scummmy bas***ds United. God knows how much on paper their strike force is worth and cisse and Baros are above them in the League.
Cisse and especially Baros's work rate over the last few games have been awesome and i ask myself and the jury out there does it matter whether finnan, Hypia Garcia or Cisse score? because to me it doesnt so long as somebody sticks it in the net.
Of course it is nice at the end of the season to see your main man at the top of the leaderboard and i am positive given time to settle down in the premiership and learn each others play Baros and Cisse will become a great partnership as i think will Gerrard and Alonso, so lets stop worrying about who is scoring because if we are winning who really gives a s**t.
Another thing that has bugged me a little is that some people have been saying that we havnt been tested at home yet only playing lower league teams ie Charlton, City ect..... These kind of games over the last few seasons have caused us big problems and these are the most annoying to lose

by **LFC #1** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:01 pm

****** hell another Cisse and Baros thread.

by **Redrider** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:01 pm

The fact that we have these threads, only indicates that we have a problem.
Also, isn't this what the Discussion Board is meant to be for.
If you do not wish to read or join in the discussion, then just move on to another topic. General Chat is very lively these day's.

by **DAV** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:22 pm

van noodle ****** and rooney have both been injured, thats why their not up in the scoring charts.
both scored the other day
if i want to critisise players i will, if i want to praise players i will
its a forum 4 gods sake

by **bigmick** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:33 pm

Yeah this "give him time", "too early to tell" nonsense does get a bit tiresome. It might be too early for some to tell, but not for me. We overpaid for the raw potential that is Cisse, and neither him nor Baros are your twenty goals a season man that all successful teams have. Both can become good players in my view, both ARE good players on occasions, but together? No it don't work for me sorry. It's one or the other plus a goal-getter in my opinion. Everybody else can make their mind up in their own time, I've come to my conclusions thanks.

by **Matt D** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:37 pm

you just said it yourself - both can become good players - but then you say you dont want to give it time, what says if we bought Morientes or Mista come January, can you for one be sure that they would be a 20+ goals a season man.

by **Redrider** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:57 pm

bigmick wrote:Yeah this "give him time", "too early to tell" nonsense does get a bit tiresome. It might be too early for some to tell, but not for me. We overpaid for the raw potential that is Cisse, and neither him nor Baros are your twenty goals a season man that all successful teams have. Both can become good players in my view, both ARE good players on occasions, but together? No it don't work for me sorry. It's one or the other plus a goal-getter in my opinion. Everybody else can make their mind up in their own time, I've come to my conclusions thanks.

Well said Bigmick, you have just encapsulted in one post what I have been 'moaning at' in my last twelve posts.

by **bigmick** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:59 pm

No definately not. What you must do though, is base your strategy on logic and balance of probability. Neither Baros nor Cisse are the poacher type ( despite Cisse's undeniably impressive record in France ) and to play the expansive, roam around the park, run at people game they do and score regularly is almost impossible. Only Henri in modern times has managed to combine the two roles. Neither Baros nor Cisse attacks space at the front post when a cross comes in. Neither Baros nor Cisse show signs of an instinctive appreciation of opportunity, of guessing the goalkeeper may drop it or that the ball may come back off the post. You can't teach this stuff, its a talent. That's why the very best at it can score goals from two yards out week after week and be paid two million quid a year and more for doing it.
Van Horseface, Owen at his best (which FWIW I think has gone) , Fowler and apprentices such as Defoe perform the role well. Whether Mista or Morientes are an answer I don't know to be perfectly honest. I've never really seen Mista play for one thing. Tell you one thing though, if I watched him a couple of times I reckon I'd be able to tell you if he was possibly going to do the job. You can never be categoric in predicting success in the goalscoring department. So many different factors, confidence, how good is the service, luck etc. You can however be more certain about non-success in the goal-getting department. It seems to me that unless teams start defending on the half-way line so Alonso can slip Cisse in, or unless he scores ten goals from 25 yds plus in a season he can't possibly be a regular goal-scorer. He doesn't take up the right positions. Likewise Baros though at International level his record is exceptional, for us he doesn't get in goalscoring positions often enough. Maybe its because he offers more in the buildup play for us I don't know but I just don't see it happening. One or the other for me afraid.

by **bigmick** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:08 pm

There you go Matt, St Mike has just posted up the video links on Mista. Check out the second goal. Neither of our two lads would have scored that. First touch into his stride with the chest was perfect, measured shot. Our lads would probably have been the crosser, that's my point. Based on that, for free, on relatively low wages and a player that Rafa knows well? Yep', he'll do for me.

by **Matt D** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:50 pm

bas***ds i cant watch any of the clips but i have seen him play quite a few times and i agree he is a very good player and if we can get him then great but i believe that as much as we could do with a "goal poacher" we could do with another midfield player who can play left and right (depending on Nunez) and a Central defender - although Carra looks steady. The reason i put this thread out was not to pi*s people off who maybe commenting on Cisse and Baros because i for one have done in the past but its clear that we cant do anything until January so we will have to give our support to the lads we have and hopefully they will start to gel and get a few goals

by **72-1090627431** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:39 pm

I dont think the Cisse deal should have been done by Liverpool after sacking Houllier. He was a Houllier purchase and if he proves to be another Heskey, it will have been a waste of 14 million for a player Benitez didnt neccesarily want.

Although I think Baros is a better all round player than Owen, I do think Owen is more clinical with his chances. If Owen had the chances that Baros had, first half, for the Deportivo and Charlton games, he would have scored half a dozen.

So i have to eat my words on that one folks. :down:

by **spud** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:10 pm

Pongolle, Baros and Cisse are not ugly goal poachers. Another player with different attributes would give us another dimension.

It's a shame Heskey couldn't hit a barn door with a banjo.

by **REDTILLDEAD** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:18 pm

Mmmm...perhaps he should have tried it with a football!!

by **spud** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:18 pm

by **REDTILLDEAD** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:23 pm

I,m sure cisse and "milan" will come good we must give them time

after all we gave houllier 5 yrs!! :oh:

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