Liverpool FC Forum

[bigmick]

I was just thinking the other day, what if one of the bright young managers in the Prem, (Curbishley, Allardyce, Pearce etc) got poached to go and run Real Haveawedge in La Liga, would they come back and plunder the English Market like Houllier, Benitez and Wenger have done with their home nation? Would their fans be happy if they did? Who would they buy, are they good enough and would it be a good idea?

British players are too expensive though surely? Well, Rafa came to Liverpool and bought Alonso. An unqualified success and a fantastic player. An English comparison? Michael Carrick. Don't think he's quite in Alonso's class TBH so don't all go crazy but I do think he's an excellent player.  He is the best English holding midfielder by a mile in my view. Price? 3 million quid from West Ham. Hardly an out of the blue purchase, he was touted by all and sundry before Spurs went in. Luis Garcia? One of my favourite players, trickster and game breaker extraordinaire. Comparison? Joe Cole would probably cost about the same money (6 million), would he offer more on a consistent basis? No in my opinion but by now I hope you are getting my drift. Reina at 8 million quid? makes Paul Robinson look quite cheap at 2.5 million IMHO, or another young keeper that I like, Robert Green at about 3 mill'. Morientes at 6 mill? Don't get me started.

So what's the point? Good question. Well, January is coming up and we're like as not going to pay 10-12 million for this Simao bloke. Haven't seen much of him TBH but can imagine he's a top player. Realistically though, how long will it take him to adapt to British football. How long would it take Sean Wright-Phillips to adapt to La Liga with it's different language, climate and style of play? How long did it take Ian Rush to adapt to Italy? (not a bad player in his day).  We should just buy Joaquin say most. 20-25 million in all probability. Need a centre half? Milito at about 10-15 million is your man mate. First time he plays against Drunkan Duncan and doesn't get a foul when he falls over he'll think WTF. A top player no doubt but how long will it take him to settle? A season anyone? Remember Pires, Reyes etc etc they all say. Well I do and they took a while and what's more Reyes who is a superb player admittedly, would jet back to spain in a jiffy if one of the big clubs came in.

Still don't see your point mate, sorry. Well, I say if we need a centre-half lets look closer to home. Ledley King at about 15 million quid. Overpriced? don't make me laugh, the bloke would settle from day one and would be worth about ten league points a season to us. Need a winger? sure lets look at Simao etc etc but if Curbishley was manager at Simao's club who would he buy to replace him? Stuart Downing maybe? (I think Simao generally plays wide-right but against Manure he played left so run with it). I reckon he'd get Downing for around 7 mill' and make himself 5 on the deal. Need somebody wide right? I've long said it, lets take a punt on Glen Johnson. Somebody will one day convert him from a full back into a wide midfielder, might as well be us. 2 mill' mate for a Josemi type gamble. Worse comes to the worst, you could alwways flog Josemi to pay for it and use Johnson as your right-back cover aswell.

British players expensive? I don't think so necessarily. You've just got to look closely. Somebody spotted Dean Ashton who I'd swap for Morientes in a heartbeat, ditto Darren Bent. Danny Gabbidon was touted on here by Taff last season and needless to say he got laughed off. Looks quite cheap at 3 million now though I've got to say.

I don't think for one minute that this is the route we will go down but I think we should at least look. Please when you reply, don't get too hung up on the Alonso/Carrick comparison, that's not the point of the post. The point is, look at home first.

[Ola Mr Benitez]

Great post..  I agree full heartedly.  The difference with me to other/younger members here is I remember when the Liverpool dressing room was full of forigners, but they all came from Scotland and Ireland. 

Home grown players know what the premiership is all about and sometimes that is worth more than the skill they may lack when compared to some of the foreign players.

The spine of our team should IMO include more Brtitish players.  The few we have are pretty decent.  (Carra, Gerrard, Warnock and Finnan).  I would lke to see Joe Cole and I think Matt Upson, could also be a useful purchase.

[andy_g]

not too much to add really, except i think that if you went looking to buy joe cole you'd need to fork out more than 6 million. i'm not sure if, compared to the european market prices, he's worth it but there you go. having said that though, and putting aside the fact that he plays for chelski at the moment i'd have him in the side in a flash. he seems like a player reborn these days - much better in posession, using his tricks effectively and beating people on a regular basis. i've heard rumours though that he's not too happy at the moment and would like to be playing more first team football and that if he had too he'd move on. if he was on the market i'd have him but it would probably mean forking out 8, 9 or even 10 million.

[bigmick]

Not sure on the more than 6 mill' thing Andy. You may be right and I'm sure Chelski would hold out for more but it depends on the circumstances. When Arsenal asked about Jenas (another smashing player who was cheap in the end in my view) they were quoted 20 mill'. Six weeks later and after Jermaines somewhat baffling "goldfish bowl" interview and Spurs picked him up for 8. I suspect a "play me or sell me" ultimatum from Cole would result in a fairly sharpish trip through the stamford Bride exit door and he may not cost as much as you think.
the one thing in everybodys favour with Chelsea is that they really don't care about the money and a couple of mill' either side doesn't make a sh!te of difference to them. They'd give him away for free if he was disrupting the club.

[Ciggy]

Excellent post Mick but what about Peter Crouch? His real value is around 3-4 million at the most, I also dont think Jenas is worth 8 million either he hasnt exactly set the world alight for Newcastle or Spurs, Davids 2 million what a bargain compared to Jenas, but he's dutch and age is not on his side but he has to be bargain of the season in the prem.

Your right about Downing aswell excellent player and wouldnt cost that much.
I think Joe Cole would not be for sale for anything less than 10 million pounds though.
INMO SWP has ruined his career by going to Chelsea a world Cup year and hes on the bench not even played a full game yet, we should have bought him last season we could have got him for around 12 million, but thats just ifs and buts.

[Chelsea forever.]

They'd give him away for free if he was disrupting the club.

I can only imagine you didnt mean that - if you did, then thats a stupid thing to say.

Joe Cole is a very important player for us, there is no way we will sell him .. he has a vital role to play at Chelsea and he loves the club.

--

Decent initial post, agree with much of it. King is a solid player and would be a good buy, however Spurs are building a strong side and wont sell him.

If you do want to think of an English CB - Young Ferdinand. I havent seen a whole lot of him, but of what I have, he looks comfortable on the ball and will prove to be a batteler alongside Carra.

Downing looks great, but he has to recover from his injury.

Other interesting players are Julian Gray and Jerome Thomas. and Bent as striker, Ashton

RB - Young from Charlton.

[Ace Ventura]

A very interesting post BigMick and some of the points i agree with.
Glenn Johnson is a shocking defender but he is really good coming forward and could make a decent right midfielder...though whether he would be an out an out winger and score many goals is debateable.
King i agree would be a great buy...i am not sure Spurs would sell there skipper to a rival though...or even if he would move when he is captain, but i agree he would be great alongside Carragher.

[bigmick]

On the question of Crouch Lynds I don't agree with you and the many others on here who are not convinced by the big man. I think he has started well and had he scored a couple of goals, then everyone would be happy. The system we are playing doesn't suit him in terms of his goalscoring and he largely has to sacrifice himself for the good of the team. People will say it's the same system they played at Southampton but it is very different without getting into the tactics here. I think he is a good buy at 7 million.
On Davids, there will always be a place for former World class players at the right price for the influence they can have over the younger players at the club and for the class they can bring to the play in small bursts. I was all for signing Figo for the same reason but signing of the season? I don't know about that TBH. It wasn't the greatest surprise in the World that when Spurs slipped to defeat on a wet and windy northern Tuesday in Grimsby with an otherwise full strength team, Davids was back in London nursing a "thigh injury". He did fortunately recover for the Home game in the Premiership that weekend which was nice. Signing of the season sofar is Bent by a mile for me. Didn't particularly fancy him myself but he looks quality.
You're spot on that Jenas hasn't set the World alight sofar. The Spurs fans think they might have signed a dud but they are wrong in my view. He is a snip who will play stacks of games for England and will make the squad in the summer as cover for Lampard and Gerrard..
As for Cole. We can argue all day over the fee which is more than Chelsea would do if they didn't want him anymore.   

[darwisigila]

joe cole is million times better than luis 'waster' garcia. we should get him if we can but i don see that will happen coz jose mourinho rated that little

[Chelsea forever.]

As for Cole. We can argue all day over the fee which is more than Chelsea would do if they didn't want him anymore

Nice try

Yes he is a better player than Garcia - any day. He can play central, he can play left and right and he can play on the tip. He is great defensivly and is capable of producing the magic offensively.

But he will not be sold, loaned or donated

So dont bet on it

[tel]

No mention yet of Jermaine Defoe. A steal if there ever was one. How no big club even considered him when he was playing in the lower league with West Ham amazes me.

[bigmick]

They'd give him away for free if he was disrupting the club.

I can only imagine you didnt mean that - if you did, then thats a stupid thing to say.

Stupid? Well there was no Paul Merson/Tony Adams style rehab and arm round your shoulder treatment for Mutu when he was caught doing the charlie. See you later mate, we'll just write off the 14 million pound transfer fee, Bye! Given away.
When Veron was surplus to requirement and it was figured that nobody would pay his salary, then the 16 million fee was written off and he was farmed off to Italy with, so rumour from a solid source has it, 3/4 of his salary paid. Given away.
Crespo? ditto ditto ditto.
Chelsea are by no means the only club to take this stance these days, we did something very similar with Diouff/Cheyrou. The fact that they can afford to do it without any problem, even when there have been massive transfer fees involved is what makes them slightly different.
So is it a silly thing to say that Chelsea would in the right circumstances give him away? Is it a silly thing to say when justifying my opinion that Cole could be prised out of Stamford Bridge for around 6 million given he isn't in their first team and he wants to play for England in Germany?
  No. Infact it's a silly thing to say that it is.

[andy_g]

wrenching the subject back to ledley king for a moment and bearing in mind the recent 'break the bank for joaquin' threads, he's one player i believe we really should break the bank for. i accept what everyone is saying about spurs building a strong side around him, him being captain etc etc, but every player has his price under the right circumstances.

lets see what the situation could be at the end of this season. i don't see spurs making the champions league this season for all their quality and exciting transformation process. if we can get our sh!t together and do well in the league, maybe getting 2nd or 3rd even, and have a good CL run we'll be a very attractive club to anyone on the back of last seasons european achievements. what if we then went knocking on spurs door with, say, 15 to 20 million in return for ledley king?

now i think that 15 to 20 million is exhorbitant but its the market rate so there's no point quibbling about it. but the CB we need, in my view, is young, english, versatile, experienced and highly talented. who else fits that description? absolutely no one. the fact that he can also play holding midfield is another huge bonus. i'm imagining league cup games or the 'easier' league games with carragher as CB, ledley king in holding midfield both showing the ropes to young zak whitbread. what a way to learn.

so despite all the joaquin this, simao that, aimar the other - if we began the 2006/07 season with ledley king and joe cole in our ranks i'd be a very happy bunny. fat chance of it happening though.

and just one final cheeky point. chelsea forever, how many times are you going to say goodbye before you finally disappear? you're worse than the b.loody rolling stones.

[kazza]

One word Mick, xenophobia.

When you look back at the premiership, for all the flops there were also many highly entertaining players. Zola, Di Canio, Asprilla (yes Aprilla), Titi Camera, Bergcamp, Henry just to name a few. The foreign players have more skill than heart (generally) and the opposite holds true for British players (once again generally). Both are required for a balanced team that can compete on a world stage. As a fan of football, I wish to be entertained as much as possible and in my opinion foreign players give a little extra in terms of flare. I think that were referees to call games as they do on the continent, many of those foreign flops may well have done a little better.

You know it is a different mentallity here in England. I have been lucky enough to have travelled a lot, and as I lover of football I have played in many of these countries I have gone too. Where ever I have been, if I see anyone playing football I often ask to join (and it does not get any more grass roots than that) and there is a different mindset in attitudes toward the game. When playing with Italians, Spanish or French for example, you are encouraged by those playing to express yourself with the ball. Flicks, bicycle kicks and subtle tricks are applauded (whether they come off or not). While playing with English players Heart, passion and never shying from a challenge is what is required. Remember, a foreign coach has grown up with different ideas about football, and tries to bring in what he is used too.

[Chelsea forever.]

They'd give him away for free if he was disrupting the club.

I can only imagine you didnt mean that - if you did, then thats a stupid thing to say.

Stupid? Well there was no Paul Merson/Tony Adams style rehab and arm round your shoulder treatment for Mutu when he was caught doing the charlie. See you later mate, we'll just write off the 14 million pound transfer fee, Bye! Given away.
When Veron was surplus to requirement and it was figured that nobody would pay his salary, then the 16 million fee was written off and he was farmed off to Italy with, so rumour from a solid source has it, 3/4 of his salary paid. Given away.
Crespo? ditto ditto ditto.
Chelsea are by no means the only club to take this stance these days, we did something very similar with Diouff/Cheyrou. The fact that they can afford to do it without any problem, even when there have been massive transfer fees involved is what makes them slightly different.
So is it a silly thing to say that Chelsea would in the right circumstances give him away? Is it a silly thing to say when justifying my opinion that Cole could be prised out of Stamford Bridge for around 6 million given he isn't in their first team and he wants to play for England in Germany?
  No. Infact it's a silly thing to say that it is.

Mutu - was caught doing drugs, never came to practice, never trained, was leading a playboy lifestyle and taking it easy - club policy to dismiss such a player.

Veron - Biggest mistake ever, never settled at Manu and that should have been a clear sign that he could not play in the EPL. He is on loan and whatever the press might say no one other than the Cfc and Inter board know what the $$ deal is. I can only imagine Peter and Roman are not stupid enough to pay his wages and that Inter have sorted it out with an undisclosed fee or ever better with first option on Adriano 

Crespo - All CR's fault and I blame him 100%. He never spoke to the player, never helped him settle down in London. Never game him starts and did not trust him - his player management for Crespo was terrible and a shame. Jose came, loaned him out, got him back on form and brought him back - smart move. Not a waste of money at all and will be vital this season.

As for Cole. He is a very important player, he will get a lot of playing time and will start against Bolton this Sat.

IF (big if) he has to leave, it will not be on the cheap. Parker (who had not played for a year) left on 6.5, what makes you think Cole (who was so important last year and has improved leaps and bounds under JosE) will leave at 6? I would imagein above 10  .... maybe even 12-15 (no, im serious .. he is of that quality)

- You might be right when you say it wont effect us, as we do have a lot of money. But its against the club policy, its a stupid thing to do and its not the way Roman does business. Each penny counts and we are not just going to let go of players because they want to play more games.

So in conclusion, it might not be silly to think that 6M wont effect us (in a technical bank balance way), but its silly to think Joe can be bought for 6, or that we would ever let him go on free - silly.