Liverpool FC Forum

[Chelsea forever.]

the SWP deal move to chelsea is the most recent example of english players being overpriced. as good a player as SWP is, chelsea paid more for him than real madrid paid for robinho

And that was always going to happen.

Let me point out - its still an undisclosed about, they say around 21-24M ... but its still undisclosed as he was the hottest player in Brazil.

And he is finding it difficult to adapt

This is where bigmiks post makes sense, as SWP is alreay settled in the EPL and doesnt need time to find his feet.

[Chelsea forever.]

drummer - a warm welcome as ever

i did not return for a while, and im not here for long either. Just found this topic of interest so felt like posting.

So I did change my thoughts about coming back, but I will never change my thoughts about you - so get as angry as you like by reading my posts, cauz I dont care as you are a piece of

[Sabre]

Sabre, I saw you un edited post. I am English and I see it, not personal just the truth.

I removed it after you said it was a joke at some extent. I don't think it's xenophobia, because I combat it everytime I see it.

The arguments he has given are footballistic arguments. It's a fact that if you put Josemi playing in Liverpool you are making more difficult for a Youth system boy to reach the first team. And a good future player can be spoiled? why? because you put a guy who doesn't provide much, and he seems good because he came from la Liga.

Sometimes we are lured by the novelty. we see a player from another league, and since he is a new player we haven't seen and his surname end in -ovic he must be better than ours. If you only bring quality, and do not bring mediocre players, you are not making xenophoby, you are just allowing your football to be developed. The only way to a player gets experience is by playing.

Xenophoby is a thing that must be combated not in this multimillionaire  context, but in "normal" society. I don't think "Poor Moro, I like him, but this guys don't understand him". I rather think "Come on Moro, you are supposed to be class, show this people what you are capable of, because you are PAID for it". WHen I see people trying to reach Spain in small boats, and I see people not caring about it, that's where I see xenophoby and racism, not when I see those multimillionaire b+stard who at the end of the day they go to home in a Mercedes or an Audi.

Sabre

[stmichael]

there are some very good players english players in the lower leagues who could make the step up to the premiership imo. phil jagielka, michael tonge, david nugent to name but three.

looking back now, i was advocating buying michael dawson from forest before spurs got him. i think he's a great player.

[bigmick]

If the xenophobia thing was a joke then suffice to say I didn't find it funny but there you go.
On the question of players playing their football in England being expensive, I simply ask this question. If Ledley King was playing for Real Sociedad, how much would he be worth? Quality costs money. Proven quality which you can absolutely cast-iron bet your house on being a fixture in your team for years to come costs a lot of money. If he's 15 million, then bite the bullet and buy him. However good Milito is, I would amazed if he is a better bet than Ledley King.
JBG mentioned Damien Francis. I sad he was a good player last season along with Robert Earnshaw and got laughed off. I think on Francis I have been proven right and I haven't given up on Earnshaw yet either. Not necessarily what we need at Liverpool but good players. Similarly Andy Johnson is a good player in my view. I think he would score a lot of goals for us. Cost? probably about 8 mill'. Worth it? maybe.
Sean Wright-Phillips overpriced? How much would he be worth if he was at Sociedad, a young player just breaking into the national team? Reyes was 20 million with all the clauses from Seville, is he a much better player? Maybe.
Transfers capture everybody's imagination because you never know until you've taken the plunge whther you have been ripped or not. Some English based players are expensive, some foriegn based ones are too.


On a seperate note, to Chelsea forever. You cannot be surprised by all the vitriol coming in your direction on this thread in my view. I mentioned that Garcia and Cole are similar players in my original post. I also stated that though I prefer Garcia, IMHO Cole could be picked up at a similar price and therefore the comparison was a fair one. CIGGY and Andy questioned whether Cole could be gotten for this fee, and I said that though they may be correct, my feeling was that if he rocked the boat Chelsea would sell cheap, even free etc etc. I must stress again at this point once again that I think Garcia is a much better player.
You came on and questioned this which is OK by me. I then gave you a number of examples of your club and mine offloading players for free. All facts. No opinion, just facts. End of argument in my opinion.
THIS IS WHERE I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH YOU CHELS', RIGHT HERE>>>> You then come back with a history of the various dealings, who bought the players, whose fault it was, whether the club were justified etc etc. WE DON'T CARE ABOUT CHELSEA. WE DON'T CARE WHOSE FAULT IT WAS. OK? We only care if it is related to Liverpool. If Chelsea decide to offload Smertin twice while paying his wages I don't care. If they loan Veron to Italy I don't care. I only care about Liverpool FC on this board in this particular forum.

[drummerphil]

charming Chelsea forever,i only said you lied about leaving and i get called a piece of .I,m not bothered if you come back or not and i was actually ashamed of some of the things i said to you .Dont leave because of me because sooner or later someone else will have a go at you,"there are many".
I,m not bothered and have more important things to deal with than a stupid feud with you .

[Ciggy]

But to for you to think Joe or Glen would swap Chelsea for Liverpool is a bit rich, even if they would be happy to be playing more games. - Nothing against LIverpool as a club, but you know what im talking about.

Erm no we dont know what your talking about, who the f@ck do you think you are coming out with a statement like that on a Liverpool football forum?
You have only won the premiership in 50 years and have the cheek to dissrespect our great club.
You have bought the prem your team have not earned it.
Cant wait for Roman to do one, how are you going to pay the wages then? You wont be so cocky then will you.

[stmichael]

One element that’s been overlooked in this affair is that some clubs have been forced to look abroad for their young players due to FA regulations introduced a few years ago, which ruled that clubs are only allowed to sign up players for their academy who live within a catchment area defined by 90 minutes driving distance.

For a one-club town like Newcastle or Middlesbrough this doesn’t cause a problem; even two-club cities like Liverpool and Manchester don’t suffer too much. But the London clubs have a much smaller catchment area and more competition within that, so have the option of either contracting players who may not be up to their expected standard or looking abroad.

The conflict between the FA regulations and the new UEFA rules puts unfair pressure on the clubs and will only mean that more substandard English players come through the academies than before. And let’s face it, if England can’t cobble together a 25-man squad with the players already available, they’re not going to do much better with the new players brought through the academies at the expense of someone better.


The real problem is that English players are too expensive and often have inferior skill. Look at the England vs. Holland game at the start of the year. Holland had a young forward playing called Castellan (I think) who gave Ashley Cole a torrid time, and looked very promising. How much would a player like that cost to bring to the premiership ? £5 million maybe ? Compare him to Shaun Wright Phillips. The english media hyped him up  and his transfer value rose to over 20 million. On the night, to me, Castellan looked the better player and would probably cost a fraction of what S.W.P. cost. That’s the problem in a nutshell - too many overhyped english players forcing managers to look abroad for much cheaper, often more skillful players.

[drummerphil]

morning Ciggy sweetheart,i got rediculed on here a few weeks back for pointing out similer things to what you and mick have mentioned and was told to get off his back.I,m glad finally people can see what i was on about.

[Ciggy]

i got rediculed on here a few weeks back for pointing out similer things to what you and mick have mentioned and was told to get off his back.I,m glad finally people can see what i was on about.

He's a cheeky f#cker, coming out with that statement, who the f@ck are Chelsea anyway?
No one, just a club with a billionair in charge, the way he said Joe and Glen like they are 2 of the best players the prem has on offer, sorry but I dont think rafa would be interested in Joe and Glen, if you know what I mean.
Cant get over the cocky attitude of a fan whos team have won one title in 50 years and thinks they have a list of honours as long as my arm.
Respect is earned not bought and CF your the most hated club in Europe at the moment and thats not something I would be very proud of if I where you.

[Chelsea forever.]

Luis Garcia? One of my favourite players, trickster and game breaker extraordinaire. Comparison? Joe Cole would probably cost about the same money (6 million), would he offer more on a consistent basis? No

Thats what you said in your original post, then they said it would be more, and you said maybe but if he rocked the boat we could sell him on the cheap or even for free etc etc. You also mentioned Jenas and 20M for ARsenal but 8 M for Spurs.

Would I be correct if I said that, IYO Cole would be 6m, but could get out on cheap if he makes noise. You are aware that it all depends and the Jenas deal is evidence of that. You also accept that they feel it could be 10M or so, but the money is not your concern its the point your trying to make ---- if this is true then fair enough I accept it.

THIS IS WHERE I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH YOU CHELS', RIGHT HERE>>>>

Point noted, I only spoke because you mentioned the deals and I felt you should hear both sides of the story. I understand you are not interested as this is a LFC forum, but I spoke out of your interest in 'football' as a whole. I guess I dont need to anymore.

-

As for you saying Garcia is better than Cole - I totally disagree and would be willing to speak further on that if you wish to.

-

Drummer-

i was actually ashamed of some of the things i said to you .

IF (a big if) that is so, and if you realize what you said was totally out of context and a crime (about the Nationality) then I am happy you feel that way and will forget about all you said - even if it means nothing to you.

.Dont leave because of me because sooner or later someone else will have a go at you,"there are many".

To be honest You are the first iv come accross in my 7 years on the net, the first who abused someones Nation with such vengeance.

[bigmick]

But to for you to think Joe or Glen would swap Chelsea for Liverpool is a bit rich, even if they would be happy to be playing more games. - Nothing against LIverpool as a club, but you know what im talking about.

Erm no we dont know what your talking about, who the f@ck do you think you are coming out with a statement like that on a Liverpool football forum?
You have only won the premiership in 50 years and have the cheek to dissrespect our great club.
You have bought the prem your team have not earned it.
Cant wait for Roman to do one, how are you going to pay the wages then? You wont be so cocky then will you.

It's another silly comment Lynds you're quite right. If Cole was assured of a regular start, of course he would swap Liverpool for Chelsea. It's happened since the dawn of time. Murphy to Charlton, are they a bigger club? A more recent example is Scott Parker to Newcastle. Mourhinho told Parker that he could stay and fight for his place, Sounness told him that he plays every week if fit and of course he went.
Statements such as this one display a lack of grasp of the traditions of the game. Chelsea are currently the biggest club in the World on many measures, I wouldn't deny that because it'd be silly. All players move on though, even Terry and Lampard will play somewhere else someday. Why? not because they're going to a bigger club, they'll just not be getting in the team anymore. Anyways that's enough bridgetalk for me. It's bad enough discussing that team on here, but when it's with somebody who clearly refuses to accept reality it's worse than a waste of time. Any further Chelsea chat should be done on one of their sites in my view. Any Chelsea responses to this will go unanswered by me so feel free to have the last word.

[drummerphil]

chelsea forever i never abused India,if i did,or it seemed that way  i apologise

[Ace Ventura]

For a one-club town like Newcastle or Middlesbrough this doesn’t cause a problem; even two-club cities like Liverpool and Manchester don’t suffer too much. But the London clubs have a much smaller catchment area and more competition within that, so have the option of either contracting players who may not be up to their expected standard or looking abroad.




The real problem is that English players are too expensive and often have inferior skill. Look at the England vs. Holland game at the start of the year. Holland had a young forward playing called Castellan (I think) who gave Ashley Cole a torrid time, and looked very promising. How much would a player like that cost to bring to the premiership ? £5 million maybe ? Compare him to Shaun Wright Phillips. The english media hyped him up  and his transfer value rose to over 20 million. On the night, to me, Castellan looked the better player and would probably cost a fraction of what S.W.P. cost. That’s the problem in a nutshell - too many overhyped english players forcing managers to look abroad for much cheaper, often more skillful players.

I have mentioned Castelan a couple of times on here myself.
He raped Cole that night and scored a cracker that was disallowed for offside, he plays right wing and would not cost much.
We have scouts supposedly all over the world, well i hope someone has been at least watching this lad.
Dutch players tend to adapt well to the Premier league as well.

[Judge]

i got rediculed on here a few weeks back for pointing out similer things to what you and mick have mentioned and was told to get off his back.I,m glad finally people can see what i was on about.

He's a cheeky f#cker, coming out with that statement, who the f@ck are Chelsea anyway?
No one, just a club with a billionair in charge, the way he said Joe and Glen like they are 2 of the best players the prem has on offer, sorry but I dont think rafa would be interested in Joe and Glen, if you know what I mean.
Cant get over the cocky attitude of a fan whos team have won one title in 50 years and thinks they have a list of honours as long as my arm.
Respect is earned not bought and CF your the most hated club in Europe at the moment and thats not something I would be very proud of if I where you.

drummerphil is on my wavelength, and im glad you are beginning to see how he posts on here lynds.

your right, who the fuck are chelsea anyway.


long live drummer and lynds