Liverpool FC Forum

[JC_81]

Arbeloa is underrated imo.

I saw him linked with Seville for 8m Euros which is a joke really. United wouldn't sell someone like O'Shea for that price and he does almost exactly the same job for them as Arbeloa does for us but just not as well.

Agreed.  Underrated player is Arbeloa.

I think he's good defensively and has the energy to get up and down the flank supporting attacks.  Perhaps his weakness is a lack of a quality final cross/pass/shot when he does get forward.  Still a player I like who is equally effective at right and left back and worthy of a place in the squad.

[andy_g]

Its blatently obvious our defence suffered as a result of Aggers long term injury last year in the League.

Ballacks, we had more than adequate cover and it was draws which cost us dearly (13 in the Premiership), none of which were 3-3 or worse and most were 1-1 or 0-0

and those games were drawn and not won because we conceded goals we shouldn't have, right?

[66-1112520797]

Good topic.

Firstly on the RB's (going off topic) I actually think Arbeloa looks a better full back than a man marker myself. I've been happy with his displays both at LB and RB, he gets forward more than Finnan IMO down the flank and is pretty consistent in his defensive duties. I think he is slightly underated around here, and thats a surprise amongst Newkit goers.

Sorry to go off topic , but i totally disagree with this , arbeloa is at most a cover for the right back position not one who should be in the 11 for a club as big as LFC . Arbeloa , yes he's excellent when going forward but he is at best average in defending , gets pushed off the ball easily , gets beaten by his man far too often , if money was available , we need a decent right back if not we should push carragher out to right back and ageer and skrtel in the middle , carragher is deffo better than arbeloa at right back and skrtel has started to show some promise last season after a shaky first two games .

Well I've been impressed with Arbeloa, and while Carragher maybe a better defender, Carra's best position is CB. Plus Arbeloa goes forward more and is much better and more comfortable on the ball than Carragher is.

People say he isnt that good defensively, I honestly cannot remember him being that bad during a game. I remember he played at CH and looked like a fish out of water. But at full back I think he is decent enough, he doesnt get skinned that often, and he recovers position well enough and supports the midfielder infront of him better than Finnan or Carra. Whether o not Rafa sees him as an adequate player to replace Finnan remains to be seen though. But everyone has harped on about our fulbacks not attacking enough and Steve Finnan is a culprit of this, Arbeloa isnt, personally I dont have a problem giving him a go at RB for a good length of time, I think he'd prove me right.

I think some people dont really consider him to be a starting eleven player because we didnt pay millions for him and he isnt considered World class, and isnt as desirable as a player like Alves, sometimes fans like flavour of the month, than a good standard stock player..

[andy_g]

and another thing. 'left backs' in the context of the topic shouldn't have the apostrophe.


thank you.

[Sabre]

Many interesting points.

I agree Paul C that with Dossena, Fabio Aurelio and Insua we have the RB very well covered.

I agree Barry in the importance he gives to Agger's injury and influence. Let's remember we were looking for a CB in Heinze. He didn't come AND we lost Agger. Double trouble. Barry's point is not ballacks.

I also think that our defence hadn't the sharpest of seasons. When you address the individuals you cannot blame them much, Hyypia has responded well, Carraguer's been solid, but our back four as a whole wasn't as sharp as the previous season. Probably the "many games in a row" Rafa mentions on the article brought by S@int. BTW, "many games in a row" seems to be a concern still this summer, so it doesn't seem as if he will leave rotation. Whether it's Rafa style or not we'll see.

As for Arbeloa, I don't think he's underrated as I hardly see harsh criticism on his game. With the RB covered, with no chance to compete for CB, he'll have to give the best of himself to keep a regular place in the RB. Both with Degan and Carraguer, probably. Good player, and good levels of performance so far. But as Alonso he'll have fierce competition next year and he'll have to fight hard his place.

[woof woof !]

Good topic.

Firstly on the RB's (going off topic) I actually think Arbeloa looks a better full back than a man marker myself. I've been happy with his displays both at LB and RB, he gets forward more than Finnan IMO down the flank and is pretty consistent in his defensive duties. I think he is slightly underated around here, and thats a surprise amongst Newkit goers.

Sorry to go off topic , but i totally disagree with this , arbeloa is at most a cover for the right back position not one who should be in the 11 for a club as big as LFC . Arbeloa , yes he's excellent when going forward but he is at best average in defending , gets pushed off the ball easily , gets beaten by his man far too often , if money was available , we need a decent right back if not we should push carragher out to right back and ageer and skrtel in the middle , carragher is deffo better than arbeloa at right back and skrtel has started to show some promise last season after a shaky first two games .

Well I've been impressed with Arbeloa, and while Carragher maybe a better defender, Carra's best position is CB. Plus Arbeloa goes forward more and is much better and more comfortable on the ball than Carragher is.

People say he isnt that good defensively, I honestly cannot remember him being that bad during a game. I remember he played at CH and looked like a fish out of water. But at full back I think he is decent enough, he doesnt get skinned that often, and he recovers position well enough and supports the midfielder infront of him better than Finnan or Carra. Whether o not Rafa sees him as an adequate player to replace Finnan remains to be seen though. But everyone has harped on about our fulbacks not attacking enough and Steve Finnan is a culprit of this, Arbeloa isnt, personally I dont have a problem giving him a go at RB for a good length of time, I think he'd prove me right.

I think some people dont really consider him to be a starting eleven player because we didnt pay millions for him and he isnt considered World class, and isnt as desirable as a player like Alves, sometimes fans like flavour of the month, than a good standard stock player..

I'm with you on this Bamaga, while not being spectacular Arbeloa has done a more than decent job at both left and right back positions. He may not be the worlds best but I can't remember when Arbeloa has let us down any more than any of the other members of our defense,his contribution is certainly underrated by many in here.

As for the suggestion that we move Carra out right to accommodate Skrtel and Agger at CB , whilst well versed at RB , Carra's best position is glaringly obvious , if Rafa wants to play Skrtel and Agger in the centre it will no doubt be just to give Carra a rest.

As for left back, haven't seen the new fella so can't comment, Insua needs more time, he's still one for the future (imo). That leaves us with the regrettably often injured Aurellio but I really like this fella. Some have questioned his defensive abilities, personally I don't see a problem, he may not go in for crunching tackles but like Arbeloa he does a decent enough job and when he's going forward he's more comfortable on the ball than half of the squad put together. I'm convinced there's still a lot more Aurellio's got to offer if only he could stay injury free.

[Toffeehater]

Good topic.

Firstly on the RB's (going off topic) I actually think Arbeloa looks a better full back than a man marker myself. I've been happy with his displays both at LB and RB, he gets forward more than Finnan IMO down the flank and is pretty consistent in his defensive duties. I think he is slightly underated around here, and thats a surprise amongst Newkit goers.

Sorry to go off topic , but i totally disagree with this , arbeloa is at most a cover for the right back position not one who should be in the 11 for a club as big as LFC . Arbeloa , yes he's excellent when going forward but he is at best average in defending , gets pushed off the ball easily , gets beaten by his man far too often , if money was available , we need a decent right back if not we should push carragher out to right back and ageer and skrtel in the middle , carragher is deffo better than arbeloa at right back and skrtel has started to show some promise last season after a shaky first two games .

Well I've been impressed with Arbeloa, and while Carragher maybe a better defender, Carra's best position is CB. Plus Arbeloa goes forward more and is much better and more comfortable on the ball than Carragher is.

People say he isnt that good defensively, I honestly cannot remember him being that bad during a game. I remember he played at CH and looked like a fish out of water. But at full back I think he is decent enough, he doesnt get skinned that often, and he recovers position well enough and supports the midfielder infront of him better than Finnan or Carra. Whether o not Rafa sees him as an adequate player to replace Finnan remains to be seen though. But everyone has harped on about our fulbacks not attacking enough and Steve Finnan is a culprit of this, Arbeloa isnt, personally I dont have a problem giving him a go at RB for a good length of time, I think he'd prove me right.

I think some people dont really consider him to be a starting eleven player because we didnt pay millions for him and he isnt considered World class, and isnt as desirable as a player like Alves, sometimes fans like flavour of the month, than a good standard stock player..

Finnan is still my preferred first choice right back , and bad games , well some games i can recall are manure , spurs just out of the top of my head , yes he is a good player to have around , just not he first 11 type , well manure bought evra for 6 to 8 million i think he didn't cost the world but look at how solid and consistent is he , he's the same size as arbeloa but tougher .

[66-1112520797]

As for Arbeloa, I don't think he's underrated as I hardly see harsh criticism on his game

That doesnt mean he isnt underated.

[stmichael]

There had also been talk amongst some supporters of Finnan possibly moving on. However I've almost certain that he'll stay now as that would mean that we have another 'homegrown' player towards the 8 we need in the 25 man Champions League squad.

[Bad Bob]

and another thing. 'left backs' in the context of the topic shouldn't have the apostrophe.


thank you.

Agreed...ergo sorted.

[Leonmc0708]

Despite the obvious issues with defenders individually missing and out of form at times, the defence was not our problem last year, it was more to do with not putting it away up the other end.

So you think Rafa was wrong then Leon !!!    

RAFA: AGGER LOSS COST US TITLE SHOT
Jimmy Rice 03 July 2008 
  The loss of Daniel Agger cost Liverpool a shot at the Premier League title last season, according to Rafa Benitez. 
The manager's words came as his Danish defender returned to pre-season training at Melwood having missed most of 2007-08 with a metatarsal break.
 
Benitez said: "I think it cost us early in the season. We conceded goals at the end of games which finished as draws because Sami Hyypia and Jamie Carragher were playing too many games in a row.
 
"We were using Jack Hobbs in some games and Alvaro Arbeloa as a centre-back; clearly we missed Daniel Agger.
 
"He is a centre-back but good on the ball and a threat for the other team too. We missed Agger."
 
Benitez tried to sign Gabriel Heinze from Manchester United last summer as cover but the move proved impossible.
 
Instead Liverpool had to wait until January for top-class reinforcements by the name of Martin Skrtel
 
The Slovak made an impressive start to his Anfield career and will ensure that competition is fierce for central defensive places this season.
 
Benitez added: "We knew this player when he was 18. It was funny because some people were going to see Everton against Zenit and were saying this player really has ability. But we already had four or five videos of him which we liked. We had already sent our people over there and we knew he was the player for us.
 
"It can be difficult to settle down in this country but Martin has been really good.
 
"We know the players we want whenever the window opens and we try to sign the players at the right price."

I agree that his absence did mean our defence leaked more goals, but 1 goal against Wigan at anfield, none against Birmingham, Portsmouth, Blackburn and Man City tell me a lack of goals where more of a problem. These games, one goal in each, would have netted us 10 points. Right in the mixer.

[Number 9]

Despite the obvious issues with defenders individually missing and out of form at times, the defence was not our problem last year, it was more to do with not putting it away up the other end.

So you think Rafa was wrong then Leon !!!    

RAFA: AGGER LOSS COST US TITLE SHOT
Jimmy Rice 03 July 2008 
  The loss of Daniel Agger cost Liverpool a shot at the Premier League title last season, according to Rafa Benitez. 
The manager's words came as his Danish defender returned to pre-season training at Melwood having missed most of 2007-08 with a metatarsal break.
 
Benitez said: "I think it cost us early in the season. We conceded goals at the end of games which finished as draws because Sami Hyypia and Jamie Carragher were playing too many games in a row.
 
"We were using Jack Hobbs in some games and Alvaro Arbeloa as a centre-back; clearly we missed Daniel Agger.
 
"He is a centre-back but good on the ball and a threat for the other team too. We missed Agger."
 
Benitez tried to sign Gabriel Heinze from Manchester United last summer as cover but the move proved impossible.
 
Instead Liverpool had to wait until January for top-class reinforcements by the name of Martin Skrtel
 
The Slovak made an impressive start to his Anfield career and will ensure that competition is fierce for central defensive places this season.
 
Benitez added: "We knew this player when he was 18. It was funny because some people were going to see Everton against Zenit and were saying this player really has ability. But we already had four or five videos of him which we liked. We had already sent our people over there and we knew he was the player for us.
 
"It can be difficult to settle down in this country but Martin has been really good.
 
"We know the players we want whenever the window opens and we try to sign the players at the right price."

I agree that his absence did mean our defence leaked more goals, but 1 goal against Wigan at anfield, none against Birmingham, Portsmouth, Blackburn and Man City tell me a lack of goals where more of a problem. These games, one goal in each, would have netted us 10 points. Right in the mixer.

Thats very true.
The team did struggle to break teams down especially the ones you mention who were basically playing for a point from the whistle or hoping to nick a lucky 1-0 on a counter attack!
That will happen this season as well and its up to us to break them down and grind out messy 1-0 wins.If Rafa can get this right and the defence gets back to its solid best we will be up there at the end.

[account deleted by request]

Despite the obvious issues with defenders individually missing and out of form at times, the defence was not our problem last year, it was more to do with not putting it away up the other end.

So you think Rafa was wrong then Leon !!!    

RAFA: AGGER LOSS COST US TITLE SHOT
Jimmy Rice 03 July 2008 
  The loss of Daniel Agger cost Liverpool a shot at the Premier League title last season, according to Rafa Benitez. 
The manager's words came as his Danish defender returned to pre-season training at Melwood having missed most of 2007-08 with a metatarsal break.
 
Benitez said: "I think it cost us early in the season. We conceded goals at the end of games which finished as draws because Sami Hyypia and Jamie Carragher were playing too many games in a row.
 
"We were using Jack Hobbs in some games and Alvaro Arbeloa as a centre-back; clearly we missed Daniel Agger.
 
"He is a centre-back but good on the ball and a threat for the other team too. We missed Agger."
 
Benitez tried to sign Gabriel Heinze from Manchester United last summer as cover but the move proved impossible.
 
Instead Liverpool had to wait until January for top-class reinforcements by the name of Martin Skrtel
 
The Slovak made an impressive start to his Anfield career and will ensure that competition is fierce for central defensive places this season.
 
Benitez added: "We knew this player when he was 18. It was funny because some people were going to see Everton against Zenit and were saying this player really has ability. But we already had four or five videos of him which we liked. We had already sent our people over there and we knew he was the player for us.
 
"It can be difficult to settle down in this country but Martin has been really good.
 
"We know the players we want whenever the window opens and we try to sign the players at the right price."

I agree that his absence did mean our defence leaked more goals, but 1 goal against Wigan at anfield, none against Birmingham, Portsmouth, Blackburn and Man City tell me a lack of goals where more of a problem. These games, one goal in each, would have netted us 10 points. Right in the mixer.

Or conversely all the games where we took the lead  only to let it slip away. Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal, Wigan, Villa one goal LESS conceeded and we would have had another 10 points, (I am claiming Wigan as we were in front, so that knocks your arguement down to only 8 points   

The other thing to note is they were all home games too.

Then throw in Arsenal away, another game were we let our hard won lead slip and I am up to 12 points, and we would have also reached the CL final as well!

[Leonmc0708]

Despite the obvious issues with defenders individually missing and out of form at times, the defence was not our problem last year, it was more to do with not putting it away up the other end.

So you think Rafa was wrong then Leon !!!    

RAFA: AGGER LOSS COST US TITLE SHOT
Jimmy Rice 03 July 2008 
  The loss of Daniel Agger cost Liverpool a shot at the Premier League title last season, according to Rafa Benitez. 
The manager's words came as his Danish defender returned to pre-season training at Melwood having missed most of 2007-08 with a metatarsal break.
 
Benitez said: "I think it cost us early in the season. We conceded goals at the end of games which finished as draws because Sami Hyypia and Jamie Carragher were playing too many games in a row.
 
"We were using Jack Hobbs in some games and Alvaro Arbeloa as a centre-back; clearly we missed Daniel Agger.
 
"He is a centre-back but good on the ball and a threat for the other team too. We missed Agger."
 
Benitez tried to sign Gabriel Heinze from Manchester United last summer as cover but the move proved impossible.
 
Instead Liverpool had to wait until January for top-class reinforcements by the name of Martin Skrtel
 
The Slovak made an impressive start to his Anfield career and will ensure that competition is fierce for central defensive places this season.
 
Benitez added: "We knew this player when he was 18. It was funny because some people were going to see Everton against Zenit and were saying this player really has ability. But we already had four or five videos of him which we liked. We had already sent our people over there and we knew he was the player for us.
 
"It can be difficult to settle down in this country but Martin has been really good.
 
"We know the players we want whenever the window opens and we try to sign the players at the right price."

I agree that his absence did mean our defence leaked more goals, but 1 goal against Wigan at anfield, none against Birmingham, Portsmouth, Blackburn and Man City tell me a lack of goals where more of a problem. These games, one goal in each, would have netted us 10 points. Right in the mixer.

Or conversely all the games where we took the lead  only to let it slip away. Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal, Wigan, Villa one goal LESS conceeded and we would have had another 10 points, (I am claiming Wigan as we were in front, so that knocks your arguement down to only 8 points   

The other thing to note is they were all home games too.

Then throw in Arsenal away, another game were we let our hard won lead slip and I am up to 12 points, and we would have also reached the CL final as well!

Easy this management lark isnt it.

Saint & Leonmc - joint managers ?

[JoeTerp]

I remember a certain first game that Arbeloa ever played (maybe his 2nd) where he played on the left and marked Messi out of the game at the Nou Camp. And I remember 6 or 7 weeks into the season last year and he was the only ever present, again at left back. Then when finnan wasn't quite up to the test last year (and I am not in the thinking that its magically coming back) Arbeloa played well at right back.  For me the question is not where is Carra best or where does he want to play. its what do you value more? Arbeloa as a right back or Skrtel as a centre half?

Three centre halfs also has to become part of the thinking process now.
              Carra         Skrtel         Agger
or
            Carra             Skrtel        Agger
Degen                                                  Dossena