Liverpool FC Forum

[maypaxvobiscum]

voronin scored. thats what worried me. now he will be picked for the opening game.

[66-1112520797]

voronin scored. thats what worried me. now he will be picked for the opening game.

[tubby]

you worry too much mate, it was a friendly and the points raised will be gone over before the next game, now go have a beer.

Take of the rose tinted glasses mate. Thats what everyone said last pre season and look how shaky we were at the back last season. We are at times abysmall from set peices. If you think this is going to just go away come the start of the season I think you are going to be in for a rude awakening.

[Fo Dne]

The thing is though, I can see it now. So why can't Rafa? I'm hopefull he can.

We've got ALOT of quality in alot of positions at the minute, Keane, Gerrard, Torres, Alonso, Mascherano, Reina...

This potentially is the best Liverpool team since we won the title IF we can sign the right players and they are played in the right positions. Gerrard on the right with Mascherano and Alonso in the middle, Keane and Torres upfront.

If we get Barry aswell that will literally leave us two players short, (assuming Dossena's good enough) both of which will be defenders, a centre half and a right back in terms of having a first eleven thats strong enough at least.

I think Agger, Carragher, Skrytel etc are all good as second centre halfs, but they aren't ball magnets like Hyypia was at his best. They don't dominate area's of the pitch and thats something we lack in defence, not only arially but in terms of movement of the line, knowing exactly what to do at the right time. None of the centre backs we have now are a patch on Sami at his best, thats what we need to replace before we can start talking about titles.

[Leonmc0708]

I think it will take a couple of months for the back four to properly gel, and be able to "know" whats going on around them. IF we can score more than we concede durign these games I ill be happy.

Still not sure who plays by the way. 

[66-1112520797]

This potentially is the best Liverpool team since we won the title IF we can sign the right players and they are played in the right positions. Gerrard on the right with Mascherano and Alonso in the middle, Keane and Torres upfront

No fecking way Stu.

Pair them together in a 4-2-3-1 By all means, but in a flat four midfield it didnt work especially when we were after three points IMO.

[Number 9]

This potentially is the best Liverpool team since we won the title IF we can sign the right players and they are played in the right positions. Gerrard on the right with Mascherano and Alonso in the middle, Keane and Torres upfront

No fecking way Stu.

Exactly...nowhere near enough creativity in the centre if those 2 play together in a 4-4-2!

Unless of course Alonso can re capture his form of old which yet remains to be seen!

[JoeTerp]

Both Insua and Dossena have issues of people getting around the back of them and sometimes it isn't even a case of them being caught out too far forward. Even when Dossena was able to block players moves to the byline it looked like he was struggling mighty to do so. At first I thought it was just because they were training so hard before the matches, but I would have expected us to go into a more normal week of preparation before the Lazio match.

[Owzat]

I agree mate, I thought we showed similar problems at the back to those we had last season. Free headers against us in the centre of our penalty area and poor defensive play from set pieces. I also thought we got dragged out of position a couple of times when Dossena went forward.

For me the main advantage of man marking is everyone knows who they should be marking and there's no shirking of responsibility or room for confusion.

[66-1112520797]

I agree mate, I thought we showed similar problems at the back to those we had last season. Free headers against us in the centre of our penalty area and poor defensive play from set pieces. I also thought we got dragged out of position a couple of times when Dossena went forward.

For me the main advantage of man marking is everyone knows who they should be marking and there's no shirking of responsibility or room for confusion.

Zonal marking is something Rafa should be credited for here, as much as I dont like his tinkering. He should be praised when hes pulled something off.

And his zonal marking has worked for us ever since hes been here so    fairplay to him for that, as its obviously much harder to negotiate that than man marking with the players on the training field.

[Sabre]

This potentially is the best Liverpool team since we won the title IF we can sign the right players and they are played in the right positions. Gerrard on the right with Mascherano and Alonso in the middle, Keane and Torres upfront

No fecking way Stu.

Exactly...nowhere near enough creativity in the centre if those 2 play together in a 4-4-2!

Unless of course Alonso can re capture his form of old which yet remains to be seen!

Honestly, if a Mascherano-Alonso (both internationals) pairing haven't creativity and it's not good enough to play under a 4-4-2, let's turn off the lights and go to the beach.

Some of the Alonso criticism is quite right and fair enough, but let's not blame him aswell of the 4-4-2 not working properly in many games last season too!

I thought many people on the forum agreed the main reason for which we stuck to the 4-2-3-1 was that we didn't seem to find a creative second striker or just a proper companion for Torres. Hopefully, that's what's been fixed with Keane (I haven't seen enough of the lad).

As for Stu's sarky comment, that we'll win the league then, no one can say that in such a tough competition, but I don't see Liverpool miles off that target.

Sure, there are things to fix, one of them is some defensive mistakes in set pieces, but in those, not only the CB are involved, we've seen both Alonso, Arbeloa and many others making a mistake in their markings.

I do rate the CB that Stu likes (Woodgate is very good IMHO, he was unlucky in Spain with injuries but you can see his quality), but I don't think our CB department is the most needed one. Carraguer-Agger showed to me they were a solid pairing before Agger's nightmare in injuries.

Hyypia showed me he's still a solid rock replacement despite his age last season. My doubt is Skrtel, I see his quality, but he lacks the book of experience of Carraguer and Hyypia, which is crucial in the position. I'd feel comfortable with the Carraguer-Agger pairing to begin, and it made sense to me that Rafa used it in the most serious game of the preseason so far. But if I start to watch a Skrtel-Agger combination I'm pretty confident we'd be one of the teams with a better defensive record once again.

There are positions to fix in this team, but we have the strongest team of the last years, as Stu (and Rafa) suggest.

Left wing for instance. For last season we hoped to have Kewell and the newbie Babel. Now Kewell has gone and nobody came for the left, while Leto has gone to Olimpiakos.

In the CB department though I'm not worried right now. I was worried sick 2 years ago about how Liverpool would replace in the long term two super masters like Carra and Hyypia, but IMHO Rafa's been quite right with both Skrtl and Agger, as the old reds still have football in their boots, and the new reds are gaining experience at a good rate, while most of us think -there have to be different opinions- they're quality.

[Number 9]

Sabre I am not saying they are poor players.Just that i feel if we play a 4-4-2 there will not be enough creation between Alonso and Masch and our CM will be too defensive as a result.If Alonso can play the way he used to by all means it would be worth a shot,but he has not showed that form in a while and does not threaten teams the way he used to!
If we are to play a 4-2-3-1 i would go with Alonso and Masch in front of the back 4 all day long and everyday.I'm sure this would protect our defence and minimise the weaknesses that some have highlighted as a worry.
Basically IMO I feel that if we are to play 4-4-2 we need an attacking midfielder in the middle alongside a defensive one or our threat from the centre of the park will not be enough.

[RedBlood]

The thing is though, I can see it now. So why can't Rafa? I'm hopefull he can.

We've got ALOT of quality in alot of positions at the minute, Keane, Gerrard, Torres, Alonso, Mascherano, Reina...

This potentially is the best Liverpool team since we won the title IF we can sign the right players and they are played in the right positions. Gerrard on the right with Mascherano and Alonso in the middle, Keane and Torres upfront.

If we get Barry aswell that will literally leave us two players short, (assuming Dossena's good enough) both of which will be defenders, a centre half and a right back in terms of having a first eleven thats strong enough at least.

I think Agger, Carragher, Skrytel etc are all good as second centre halfs, but they aren't ball magnets like Hyypia was at his best. They don't dominate area's of the pitch and thats something we lack in defence, not only arially but in terms of movement of the line, knowing exactly what to do at the right time. None of the centre backs we have now are a patch on Sami at his best, thats what we need to replace before we can start talking about titles.

why dont u become the manager then well win the league 4 sure

[66-1112520797]

Sabre I am not saying they are poor players.Just that i feel if we play a 4-4-2 there will not be enough creation between Alonso and Masch and our CM will be too defensive as a result.If Alonso can play the way he used to by all means it would be worth a shot,but he has not showed that form in a while and does not threaten teams the way he used to!
If we are to play a 4-2-3-1 i would go with Alonso and Masch in front of the back 4 all day long and everyday.I'm sure this would protect our defence and minimise the weaknesses that some have highlighted as a worry.
Basically IMO I feel that if we are to play 4-4-2 we need an attacking midfielder in the middle alongside a defensive one or our threat from the centre of the park will not be enough.

Dont bother explaining yourself Baz, he wont listen to it, he cant see it, as its considered "Alonos bashing" by him.

[Sabre]

Sabre I am not saying they are poor players.Just that i feel if we play a 4-4-2 there will not be enough creation between Alonso and Masch and our CM will be too defensive as a result.If Alonso can play the way he used to by all means it would be worth a shot,but he has not showed that form in a while and does not threaten teams the way he used to!
If we are to play a 4-2-3-1 i would go with Alonso and Masch in front of the back 4 all day long and everyday.I'm sure this would protect our defence and minimise the weaknesses that some have highlighted as a worry.
Basically IMO I feel that if we are to play 4-4-2 we need an attacking midfielder in the middle alongside a defensive one or our threat from the centre of the park will not be enough.

I know you're not saying they're not quality, I know what I've quoted is not your whole view -- you've posted on the matter more times --, I know all that Barry, don't worry.

When I say the turn off the lights and go to the beach thingy is a way to say in a inflated way, that with that reputation, it's only foolish to say "no fúcking way" to give that pairing some of the continuity Bigmick uses to ask. Mascherano Gerrard could be another option, but for me the strongest option is to have both Gerrard-Mascherano-Alonso on the pitch with Keane and Torres upfront, Keane behind Torres. The panorama would be different if we had someone world class for the right, in that case I'd find the Mascherano-Gerrard option unavoidable. But since we're not in that case, the only way to have a world class player in the right is to use Gerrard there.


In a nutshell, Not considering (Mascherano-Alonso) pairing one of the two best available before hand is not right IMHO -- the other strongest one would be Mascherano-Gerrard. I don't think Mascherano-Lucas or Mascherano-Plessis is stronger.

Demanding the best of performances when they're used there is right, if you see what I mean, I have no problems with you wanting a better Alonso than the one of the last two seasons, we all know he could have done better. Hopefully this season he won't have a long injury and we'll see some improvement.