Liverpool FC Forum

[A.B.]

Kuyt is everything that Crouch isn't. He has a better first touch, better vision, better distribution of the ball, more strength, overall more ability.

Granted Crouch has scored more goals than Kuyt in all competitions [Kuyt has scored more in the Premiership].

HOWEVER Cisse scored more goals than any of our other strikers last year and he wasn't our best striker by any means.

And infact he shouldnt be needed or asked to do that to the extent he's not finding goal scoring opportunities, when you have players behind him like Gerrard and Alonso who can link up midfield to attack, thats not the concern in my mind. Scoring goals is.

Give Rafa a ring and tell him that. 

So what should a striker do .......... Oh mighty one?

Another mister no it all, but knows not alot and runs on stats 

If you think Crouch is a better footballer that Kuyt you are a complete tool.

Which he isn't, I don't know how Bamaga can't see that.

[66-1112520797]

Kuyt is everything that Crouch isn't. He has a better first touch, better vision, better distribution of the ball, more strength, overall more ability.

Granted Crouch has scored more goals than Kuyt in all competitions [Kuyt has scored more in the Premiership].

HOWEVER Cisse scored more goals than any of our other strikers last year and he wasn't our best striker by any means.

And infact he shouldnt be needed or asked to do that to the extent he's not finding goal scoring opportunities, when you have players behind him like Gerrard and Alonso who can link up midfield to attack, thats not the concern in my mind. Scoring goals is.

Give Rafa a ring and tell him that. 

So what should a striker do .......... Oh mighty one?

Another mister no it all, but knows not alot and runs on stats 

If you think Crouch is a better footballer that Kuyt you are a complete tool.

Which he isn't, I don't know how Bamaga can't see that.

Firstly Smeg, go and get a girlfriend. The influence of a woman may help you grow up and broaden your vocabulary skills and thus post something decent, as opposed to your naff one liners boy.

Secondly I havent said that Crouch is a better footballer, but what I have said is that he poses more of a goal threat than Kuyt. He takes up the positions, he was much more effective against Watford than Kuyt was. He too puts in the workrate and has a very good touch, also he's good at holding the ball up. He probably isnt as good as a finnisher than Kuyt, but we cant catergorically say that as Kuyts not on hand most of the time to put the ball in the net.

[A.B.]

Kuyt is everything that Crouch isn't. He has a better first touch, better vision, better distribution of the ball, more strength, overall more ability.

Granted Crouch has scored more goals than Kuyt in all competitions [Kuyt has scored more in the Premiership].

HOWEVER Cisse scored more goals than any of our other strikers last year and he wasn't our best striker by any means.

And infact he shouldnt be needed or asked to do that to the extent he's not finding goal scoring opportunities, when you have players behind him like Gerrard and Alonso who can link up midfield to attack, thats not the concern in my mind. Scoring goals is.

Give Rafa a ring and tell him that. 

So what should a striker do .......... Oh mighty one?

Another mister no it all, but knows not alot and runs on stats 

If you think Crouch is a better footballer that Kuyt you are a complete tool.

Which he isn't, I don't know how Bamaga can't see that.

Firstly Smeg, go and get a girlfriend. The influence of a woman may help you grow up and broaden your vocabulary skills and thus post something decent, as opposed to your naff one liners boy.

Secondly I havent said that Crouch is a better footballer, but what I have said is that he poses more of a goal threat than Kuyt. He takes up the positions, he was much more effective against Watford than Kuyt was. He too puts in the workrate and has a very good touch, also he's good at holding the ball up. He probably isnt as good as a finnisher than Kuyt, but we cant catergorically say that as Kuyts not on hand most of the time to put the ball in the net.

Crouch has scored three more goals than Dirk, but imo he isn't more dangerous than Kuyt is to be honest. Granted you think otherwise.

I know he scored 2 goals against Watford but it's Watford. I'd be much happier if Kuyt started against Chelsea than if Crouch did but that's just me.

[Bad Bob]

He takes up the positions, he was much more effective against Watford than Kuyt was.

In the interest of giving credit where credit's due, Kuyt did the hard part to set up Crouchie's first goal on Saturday.  His header into Bellamy's path was sublime and thankfully Crouchy was on hand to head home after Foster made a nice reaction save on Bellamy's blast.  On Crouch's second, Kuyt was also in the box (calling for Crouch to square it to him, in fact) so he still gets into good positions for a forward who's primarily charged with dropping deep and linking play.

[Reinas No.1 Fan]

Kuyt and Bellamy all the way, I'd even have Fowler ahead of crouch. sure he has scored goals but he has missed sitters and cost us points also.

His main benifit is in the air, oh wait a minute its not, he cant head to save his life, he has no pace, and it takes him 2 or three touches to bring the ball down to the ground. I really dont like him and find myself hating it when he scores.

Kuyt and Bellamy all the way.

[66-1112520797]

I really dont like him and find myself hating it when he scores.

You've got issues that run deeper than this thread mate, if thats the case.

[alhamaly]

Kuyt is a good player in positon, effeort and passing terms but his skill is not good enough. He can't beat the defenders such as Henry or Owen. although he was the top score man of the duch leauge, his scoring ability is still weak for us

[66-1112520797]

He takes up the positions, he was much more effective against Watford than Kuyt was.

In the interest of giving credit where credit's due, Kuyt did the hard part to set up Crouchie's first goal on Saturday.  His header into Bellamy's path was sublime and thankfully Crouchy was on hand to head home after Foster made a nice reaction save on Bellamy's blast.  On Crouch's second, Kuyt was also in the box (calling for Crouch to square it to him, in fact) so he still gets into good positions for a forward who's primarily charged with dropping deep and linking play.

Giving credit where it is due is fair enough, I'm glad you pointed those two things out from that game. Because I would of been more disapointed if a forward for Liverpool FC didnt have any impact at all on a game against Watford. I actually thought Kuyt had a pretty quiet game. But the more I think about it, I find hard to think of any games where he has terroised defences stood out head and shoulders above his teamates. At the moment it seems to me he's just another efficient cog in the Liverpool team, a workhorse and not much more. I thik Kuyt could offer more than just being efficient in his play, I think he has more ability than that. Sometimes he looks on the edge of the game because of this IMO when we could be getting him more involved upfront. I do believe he has got more goals in him, and he's obviously instructed by Rafa to play the way he has.

All thats fair enough, but I find that style quite bland at times and it would be nice to see the rest of the forwards being rotated more. Especially if thats all in terms of ability NOT workrate Kuyts going to offer us.

This " link " phrase between midfield and attack has been thrown up a lot. Thats Rafa's plan, Kuyt isnt responsible for that but it would be nice to see him and his strike partner play off eachother more. Kuyt comes to deep for my liking at times, and this is why in matches like the one at Watford he doesnt stand out. Also the onus is more on his strike partner to score in this case. Even if he made room for Gerrard to run through and pull out defenders, that would be good. Like Bellamy does, he peels off out wide and offers something down either flank. Kuyt drops deep, and doesnt do this as much. It would be nice to see Kuyt up top playing in tandem with his strike rather than deep and less threatening.

[DonnieDarko]

Kuyt has impressed me. He is not Henry or Owen but he does what he does very well. He and Bellamy should start against Chelsk.

On a side note, I apologize for slating Obafemi Martins last year saying that he was just another Cisse. He has looked  very sharp and works very very hard.

[Ace Ventura]

Bamaga man, I think Kuyt played really well on Saturday, you are right in your observations about his not being that much of a goalscoring threat. And also in saying that as a striker he could score more.
BUT, he is doing a job for the team, that much is plainly obvious, it worked really well on Saturday. When we were in posession he linked thinks superbly and some of his one touch passing in the centre and his movement was fantastic, it allowed us to have an extra man and dominate the centre.
When we attacked he got himself in and around the box in the hope of picking up the bits and pieces, and his cushion header to put Bellamy away for the second was perfectly weighted.
I think he is doing everything Rafa is asking of him, and has a decent goals return considering the job he is doing.

[Sabre]

I think that Kuyt is much more than a workhorse. He sacrifices a lot for the team, just as Morientes did, but doing a much better job due to his abilities. I think his goals will come sooner or later, perhaps he's not a goal poacher, but I definitely think he'll improve his numbers soon.

Great signing. I don't agree comparing him to Crouch, they're so different.

[Smeg]

Kuyt is everything that Crouch isn't. He has a better first touch, better vision, better distribution of the ball, more strength, overall more ability.

Granted Crouch has scored more goals than Kuyt in all competitions [Kuyt has scored more in the Premiership].

HOWEVER Cisse scored more goals than any of our other strikers last year and he wasn't our best striker by any means.

And infact he shouldnt be needed or asked to do that to the extent he's not finding goal scoring opportunities, when you have players behind him like Gerrard and Alonso who can link up midfield to attack, thats not the concern in my mind. Scoring goals is.

Give Rafa a ring and tell him that. 

So what should a striker do .......... Oh mighty one?

Another mister no it all, but knows not alot and runs on stats 

If you think Crouch is a better footballer that Kuyt you are a complete tool.

Which he isn't, I don't know how Bamaga can't see that.

Firstly Smeg, go and get a girlfriend. The influence of a woman may help you grow up and broaden your vocabulary skills and thus post something decent, as opposed to your naff one liners boy.

Secondly I havent said that Crouch is a better footballer, but what I have said is that he poses more of a goal threat than Kuyt. He takes up the positions, he was much more effective against Watford than Kuyt was. He too puts in the workrate and has a very good touch, also he's good at holding the ball up. He probably isnt as good as a finnisher than Kuyt, but we cant catergorically say that as Kuyts not on hand most of the time to put the ball in the net.

Kuyt plays alot deeper. Hes got the legs to contribute more deeper down the field. Its fuc*all to do with threat, did you see the Blackburn game or many chances against Bolton crouch had?

[mattylfc]

Kuyt is a very good player and one that i think will get better and better.  I agree that he hasnt set the premiership on fire since his arrival but i think he has shown enough quality allready to suggest he is an important part of the team.

Kuyt is very strong on the ball and his control of the ball is very good.  He has the ability to bring others into play and as we all know, his attitude and work-rate is admirable.

Kuyt has been playing a different role than he has perhaps been use to.  He has played much deeper, almost as a second striker and it will take him a bit of time to reach his high standards.  He certainaly has an eye for goal and a terrific strike of the ball. With a bit more luck and some better finishing at times, he could have notched up quite a few this season allready.

Kuyt is certainly a big player for LFC in my opinion.  Played upfront with a world class striker and we could have an awesome strike force.

[puroresu]

He might not have had the best of games on Saturday but Kuyt is still an important player in this team. His work rate along with Bellamy really set the tempo of the team, ensuring closing down occurs through out the team. But what I think is odd that the media haven’t noticed is the position in which Kuyt is playing. He isn’t playing directly upfront he most often found in the gap between midfield and attack linking play, the ‘Aimar / Beardsley role’. On Saturday he was basically playing in a front three, a system in which he struggled at the World Cup in the summer.

Rafa has said in the past there is not much difference between the 4-4-2 he has used at Liverpool and the 4-2-3-1 formation adopted while at Valencia. The difference is whether the second striker plays right upfront with the partner or slightly behind. I think recently the system has looked far more like 4-2-3-1 than 4-4-2. Certainly while defending Kuyt is deep and pressuring the opposition midfielders as well as front men. But when we have possession he is mostly found in the gap, where it is hard for him to be marked and picked up.

He might not have the technique or class of Aimar, Litmanen or Bergkamp but then again he scores more goals than most of them. But he is an unorthodox ‘link man’ who will create as well as score. He is a ‘link man’ who is suitable for the Premiership unlike the talented Aimar, who might lack the physical presence.

No one criticised Bergkamp for not scoring enough goals or not working hard enough. Kuyt scores, creates, makes space with his movement, links midfield and attack and is turning into an important player. I don’t think he should be judged by the amount of goals he scores this season, not that I think he will be. To me he is our Aimar, suitable for the Premiership, playing in a very similar role. Maybe Rafa has adapted his Valencia crushing machine system, by incorporating players more suitable to the Premiership.

Bergkamp scored his fair share plus he did things only a few players could do.  Not really a fair comparison.

[Simari]

Also the onus is more on his strike partner to score in this case. Even if he made room for Gerrard to run through and pull out defenders, that would be good. Like Bellamy does, he peels off out wide and offers something down either flank. Kuyt drops deep, and doesnt do this as much. It would be nice to see Kuyt up top playing in tandem with his strike rather than deep and less threatening.

IMO, what we are lacking is creativity in midfield / along the wings. Arsenal and Man U. have creative players in abundance in the final third. Chelsea have struck a good balance between creativity and solid defending.

Kuyt is currently filling that creative role for us. But that just goes to show that, by comparison, we don't play entertaining football the way the other 3 do. Alonso just isn't clicking at the moment and our wingers are not very creative at all. Gerrard is a powerful midfielder with great LONG RANGE passing, not a creative one.

Now some might argue that we create more chances than any other team in the league. However, most of those chances end up in feeble attempts off-target.

By taking Kuyt out of that link-up role, the onus is on Xabi and Gerrard to creatively feed the strikers/wingers. Xabi just isn't doing that, and Gerrard is most effective storming into the box. It leaves a gap for us. We are 1-2 creative players short of allowing Kuyt to partner up front with his strike partner, and we have to play 2 up front, since none of our strikers perform well when left on their own up-front.

Is it a dilemma for Rafa using Kuyt the way he is at the moment, or does he hope to beat the top 3 with a different approach? If it is the latter, that approach isn't working to-date given our results against the top 3 under his reign.