Liverpool FC Forum

[66-1112520797]

But there was a fine example of this against Villa the other day when I think Gerrard played in a lovely low ball to Kuyt. Who got goal side of their defender on the 18 yard box. He had that split second to nail it, as the goalkeeper was the only player in his sight, it was an opportunity. But he checked back on the defender who then became goalside and the opportunity was gone. Now if that were Torres I'd hope I'd of expected him to hit that or ran on to it more, but as it was Kuyt I wasnt surprised by it.

There was also a fine example of Kuyt's awareness and persistence that led to us scoring the opening goal.

True.

As the unselfish player he is (a teamworker) I'd expect good awareness from a player like Kuyt, and of course persistance.

He has the mentality no doubt, but the ability with regards to opening defences up and scoring goals like Torres can, I very much doubt.

[LFC2007]

What he did leading up to the goal v Chelsea justifies the "workhorse" claim rather than proving he has any sort of creativity. That goal was mainly about Gerrard's sublime pass rather than anything Kuyt did.

Had Dirk been in the same position as Gerrard I would have been surprised if he had executed a pass anything close to what SG managed (although comparing him to the best midfielder to the world probably isn't fair).

I was referring to the goal vs Villa, not Cheslea.
It shows awareness more than anything, his creative awareness is superb.

He had to work hard to retrieve the ball before it went into touch, and was aware of Torres' position. What about the chance Kuyt set up for Gerrard? - a clear cut chance set up by a precision pass from Kuyt. Was that not further evidence of Kuyt's awareness?

At that stage of the game it would have killed the game off completely, certain people seem to have acutely selective memories.

[Elchris]

United: Saha, Tevez and Solskaar ---->only tevez stands out , other are sicknotes

Chelsea: Shevchenko, Pizarro and Kalou----> hahah bunch of failures except for kalou who we can compare to babel

Us: Crouch, Kuyt and Voronin --- > a reliable string

[LFC2007]

True.

As the unselfish player he is (a teamworker) I'd expect good awareness from a player like Kuyt, and of course persistance.

He has the mentality no doubt, but the ability with regards to opening defences up and scoring goals like Torres can, I very much doubt.

Clearly he is no Ronaldo-esque flashy belly dancer of a player, but he is a player with many other positive attributes.

Torres adds to the mix of strikers we now have. Look at the mancs - no balance up front at this moment with all their flashy tricksters. You can't just have these flashy players who dance around all day, you need a balance and I think we may now have reached that balance with the addition of Torres.

But anyway, Kuyt's started the season well and everything is looking good so far.

[weringo]

True.

As the unselfish player he is (a teamworker) I'd expect good awareness from a player like Kuyt, and of course persistance.

He has the mentality no doubt, but the ability with regards to opening defences up and scoring goals like Torres can, I very much doubt.

Clearly he is no Ronaldo-esque flashy belly dancer of a player, but he is a player with many other positive attributes.

Torres adds to the mix of strikers we now have. Look at the mancs - no balance up front at this moment with all their flashy tricksters. You can't just have these flashy players who dance around all day, you need a balance and I think we may now have reached that balance with the addition of Torres.

But anyway, Kuyt's started the season well and everything is looking good so far.

To be fair I don't think opening up a defence is too much to ask of a striker who is 1st choice for a team with title ambition, and you don't need to be a Ronaldo-esque player to be able to do that.

If a team wants to they can just park their team bus in front of their goal like Middlesborough and Portsmouth did to us last season and you can bet your life savings that Kuyt and Crouch won't break them down.

[account deleted by request]

But there was a fine example of this against Villa the other day when I think Gerrard played in a lovely low ball to Kuyt. Who got goal side of their defender on the 18 yard box. He had that split second to nail it, as the goalkeeper was the only player in his sight, it was an opportunity. But he checked back on the defender who then became goalside and the opportunity was gone. Now if that were Torres I'd hope I'd of expected him to hit that or ran on to it more, but as it was Kuyt I wasnt surprised by it.

There was also a fine example of Kuyt's awareness and persistence that led to us scoring the opening goal.

What he did leading up to the goal v Chelsea justifies the "workhorse" claim rather than proving he has any sort of creativity. That goal was mainly about Gerrard's sublime pass rather than anything Kuyt did.

Had Dirk been in the same position as Gerrard I would have been surprised if he had executed a pass anything close to what SG managed (although comparing him to the best midfielder to the world probably isn't fair).

I think they are both limited but decent players. Kuyt is slow has a poor first touch and poor movement off the ball. He makes up for that with hard work, a powerful shot (when he uses it) an unselfish attitude a willingness to challenge for everything and a decent header.

Crouch is slow, fouls too much when challenging, and doesn't seem to really relish aerial challenges. He has however a good first touch, good movement off the ball and given the right crosses can be almost unbeatable.

Good enough for Liverpool? Last season I would have said Crouch yes, Kuyt no, but I live in hope that Kuyt will improve this season and prove more of a goal threat than "just a hard worker".

As for Torres goal against Chelsea, Kuyt was 10yards inside Liverpools half when Gerrard made the pass.

[LFC2007]

To be fair I don't think opening up a defence is too much to ask of a striker who is 1st choice for a team with title ambition, and you don't need to be a Ronaldo-esque player to be able to do that.

If a team wants to they can just park their team bus in front of their goal like Middlesborough and Portsmouth did to us last season and you can bet your life savings that Kuyt and Crouch won't break them down.

You can bet your life two strikers alone will not break down an entire team, hence why it is often referred to as a 'team game'.

Strikers alone do not win games, the idea that Kuyt should somehow have the ability to dribble past two or three players and then score is a myth. You need a balance of different players, Torres in particular give us a greater balance up front. We signed Torres for a reason, and IMO one of those reasons is to offer an option that helps unlock stubborn defences.

Kuyt has contributed to unlocking defences with his movement, if you haven't noticed he creates space with which our pacier players can run into i.e. Torres, Voronin even, and of course now he's playing centrally - Gerrard. His off the ball movement has already been demonstrated, he is incredibly aware in his movement. I am hoping Torres will be able to profit from this, so far it looks as if he will.

As for the Torres goal against Chelsea, no-one ever said Kuyt was involved.


The poll is largely insignificant, they are two players with different attributes. All I would say is that I see Kuyt as the more adaptable player in terms of who partners him up top.

[AB's Red Army]

Crouch hasn't impressed me in pre-season or the game against Tolouse. He seemed disinterested.

I love Kuyt's attitude and character, but as a footballer he's not good enough. His touch is inconsistent and heavy, he isn't clinical enough, and he doesn't offer much goal threat as I would like.

Kuyt is Rafa's favourite though, so Kuyt will get the nod ahead of Crouch. The relationship between Peter and Rafa has changed imo. Rafa was one of the few who defended him when he was in his slump, but I think that Peter may have started caught in his own hype during his goal-scoring run earlier last season.

He'll be sold next summer most definitely imo.

[maguskwt]

ok what i'm gonna say is not really about whether kuyt is better than crouch or whether he is good enough. It's about kuyt and how rafa plays him. To be honest I'm abit worried about kuyt and this is not because he is a bad player...

kuyt is a very good player... but he's not playing his natural game IMO... if you look at how he score goals at feyenoord you can see that he's the finisher. he's not a poacher mind you... but he's the finisher... his team mates would pass to him... he would probably have 1,2-3 touches on the ball and blast the ball in the net... this is what he does and he looks very comfortable scoring those goals. and most of his goals are from inside the box...

in liverpool most of the time he's asked to play the link between midfield and striker... this is because he's hardworking... has tremendous energy and is a team player... this doesn't mean that this is his natural game or that he only has this ability... against villa kuyt managed to play more upfront taking turns (almost equally) with torres to attack... but against chelsea he was a linkman again...

now i hope rafa doesn't keep asking him to play this linkman role often because... even though kuyt is a teamplayer and would gladly do so, it can hit his confidence... against chelsea you can see that he was a bit too eager to please and as a result his shots are terribly off target...it's because he's not playing his natural game...

and there's a danger that torres might become over-confident and becomes too lazy to help out like kuyt does and just stay up front... If I were rafa I would ask them to take turns in supporting each other and not assign them permanent roles like "you're the targetman", "you're the linkup man"... I think they (torres and kuyt) have the potential to become a dynamic striking pair...

end of my rant...sorry might be abit out of topic...

[LFC2007]

It's a myth that Kuyt is not playing his natural game, even at Feyenoord he came deep.

[AB's Red Army]

It's a myth that Kuyt is not playing his natural game, even at Feyenoord he came deep.

Not as deep as he's playing here. He had Kalou alongside him, and he played more of a poacher in the box than a link up man between midfield and forward line.

With that said, I'm not impressed with his technical ability. Hard-working fella with an average ability.

I can not believe the hype surrounding him during the summer we signed him.

[weringo]

As for the Torres goal against Chelsea, no-one ever said Kuyt was involved.

Ye sorry m8 I was getting confused there.

[LFC2007]

Not as deep as he's playing here. He had Kalou alongside him, and he played more of a poacher in the box than a link up man between midfield and forward line.

With that said, I'm not impressed with his technical ability. Hard-working fella with an average ability.

I can not believe the hype surrounding him during the summer we signed him.

I don't buy it, at Feyenoord his movement and positioning was not dissimilar to what it was last season with us. He plays deep when he needs to play deep, he is an intelligent player who knows when and where to time his runs. His goals last season were varied, just like they were at Feyenoord, he just needs to gamble a bit more in the box if he's going to breach the 15 goal mark.

I think he's a cracking player, even if his touch is not top top class, it is more than sufficient to be effective in this league. I believe he's scored more league goals than any other of Rafa's signings as a striker? That, at the very least is evidence that he is not absolutely sh!t.

He has a big season to come though, hopefully he can push on.

[AB's Red Army]

Not as deep as he's playing here. He had Kalou alongside him, and he played more of a poacher in the box than a link up man between midfield and forward line.

With that said, I'm not impressed with his technical ability. Hard-working fella with an average ability.

I can not believe the hype surrounding him during the summer we signed him.

I don't buy it, at Feyenoord his movement and positioning was not dissimilar to what it was last season with us. He plays deep when he needs to play deep, he is an intelligent player who knows when and where to time his runs. His goals last season were varied, just like they were at Feyenoord, he just needs to gamble a bit more in the box if he's going to breach the 15 goal mark.

I think he's a cracking player, even if his touch is not top top class, it is more than sufficient to be effective in this league.

Cracking player in terms of what exactly?

He's not a huge threat to the defenders he's up against. He can be easily contained and at times he becomes just an extra man in midfield, instead a threat in the box.

Carlos Tevez is a cracking player in every sense of the world. Dirk Kuyt is hard-working man on the pitch who isn't dangerous enough to the opposition.

We spent 9-11 million on Dirk [can't recall the exact price], and from what I've seen of him he's not worth that money.

I'd kill for a player like Anelka who knows how to open up back fours, whether it be with:

1. his movement on and off the ball
2. or his link up and passes to his team mates around the box.

He cost Bolton 8 million quid and imo is far a better value for money than Dirk has been so far.

Hell I'd even take Benny McCarthy over Dirk, who was absolutely fantastic last season. 2.5 million signing by Hughes, and the signing of the season imo last year.

Scored 15 goals in the league in his first season, and scored 20 goals or more in all.

[112-1077774096]

he can trap it further than i can kick it as the saying goes.

kuyt is not good enough and never will be, you need more than just hard work and the guy just doesn't have it.

last season has shown that, lets hope we wont be saying the same at the end of this season but i wont be holding my breath