Liverpool FC Forum

[Toffeehater]

TBH , reina has only let us down on 1 or 2 occasions , every keeper has his bad days , cech recently in the euro's and during the course of the season , same for van der sar .

[Rush Job]

Rush job, you're a good poster mate, but the discussion you lot are having is a bit strange and I'll try to explain why with my own position.

I'm innocent of giving stick to Kuyt, stick that has been cruel at some point. There are happy clappy comments here and there giving value to his job, I guess you could find it.

**But** despite I didn't write any criticism on him because I felt badly for the lad and I appreciate his job, I did think that playing him on the right was a mistake from Rafa at the beginning. I remember shutting up about it because there was enough stick to the player, but I remember thinking it. I had to admit myself in the last weeks that decission was good, so here you go, yet another fan changing his mind. But what's wrong with that? not much, IMHO the only wrong we do is when we get too far in the stick and we're too harsh on our lads, we must not forget they're reds, especially when they give it all.

Why I think your discussion is a bit pointless? because you're not discussing the contribution to the team that back then was discussed, or the stick given to the player, but the value of the player. We're not market experts, and we are not fortune tellers.  Van Basten had doubts about Kuyt and even at some point told him that he might not count on him. And the Euro can change the value of the player, and the outcome of the euro aswell. So discussing about the value of the player depend on so many factors not dependin on us (need to sell, need to buy, what happens eventually in the euro, or a decission of another manager) that discussing harshly about it is pointless!

So many lenthy posts just because i said Bob would have been wrong to acept 2/3 mill, jesus like i said lesson learned.

[Owzat]

I agree with all that Barry, maybe not quite to the degree you do but I'm not denying he did well. All I'm saying though is that claiming as some are that he was as important to the team as either Torres or Gerrard is just being daft.

Ok he was 4th best after Mascherano!!
Thats all im giving,FFS give the man a break like..Mick we dont need to replace players like Kuyt.

I thought Reina had a pretty good season too Barry 

We need to be looking at selling players outside the starting XI from the end section of last season, those in that XI did well enough to stay at Anfield. There are players less needed than Kuyt, even as a 1st team squad member he'll be more useful than the likes of Crouch, Riise (gone), Pennant and one or two others.

But because he cost £10m and we're disappointed with him in his signed position as striker then people want rid. The fact that the team played better once the formation was switched and that INCLUDED Kuyt doesn't get him much credit with some.

After the Barnsley defeat our record was P19 W13 D4 L2 F38 A19 and both defeats were away (Chelsea in the Champions League aet and the mancs) Torres' contribution can't be denied, 15 goals in 19 games is phenomenal at a goal every 94 mins he was on the pitch. We only kept 8 clean sheets, a bit disappointing that, but overall we played a lot better than in the second third of the season and a bit better than the first third :-

Games 01-20 : P20 W11 D7 L2 F40 A13 Won 55.0% (CS 10)
Games 21-40 : P20 W9 D6 L5 F41 A19 Won 45.0% (CS 7)
Games 41-59 : P19 W13 D4 L2 F38 A18 Won 68.4% (CS 8)

Both the 6-0 vs Derby and 8-0 vs Besiktas came in the first 20 games which is why that looks pretty impressive goalwise, both defeats coming in the CL at home to Marseille and away to Besiktas. The middle third included defeats away to Reading, West Ham and Chelsea, and at home to the mancs and  Barnsley. Had that final third of the season form been maintained in the Premiership we'd have been one point behind the mancs. So you could say it was our most effective XI and yet some want rid of members of that XI. By all means improve on it, add better players, but why get rid of players who could then become effective squad members for when others are absent?!?!?

[SundanceKid]

I agree with all that Barry, maybe not quite to the degree you do but I'm not denying he did well. All I'm saying though is that claiming as some are that he was as important to the team as either Torres or Gerrard is just being daft.

Ok he was 4th best after Mascherano!!
Thats all im giving,FFS give the man a break like..Mick we dont need to replace players like Kuyt.

I thought Reina had a pretty good season too Barry 

Yeah he was excellent until we started getting crosses in the box in the first game!

Good keeper mate,but never a great one!
Great keepers dont have an obvious weakness,Reina does!

Yeah he's horrible at near post saves, but he can hide it at times by shutting down the angles. I still rate him higher than Cech.

[metalhead]

I agree with all that Barry, maybe not quite to the degree you do but I'm not denying he did well. All I'm saying though is that claiming as some are that he was as important to the team as either Torres or Gerrard is just being daft.

Ok he was 4th best after Mascherano!!
Thats all im giving,FFS give the man a break like..Mick we dont need to replace players like Kuyt.

I thought Reina had a pretty good season too Barry 

Yeah he was excellent until we started getting crosses in the box in the first game!

Good keeper mate,but never a great one!
Great keepers dont have an obvious weakness,Reina does!

I disagree Barry, every keeper has a weakness, Cech for example isn't quick enough to come of his line, Van der saar sometimes loses concentration.

Reina is a great keeper.

[Judge]

Quote Big Mick:

When I talked earlier on in the season about the Champions League achivements not being anywhere near as difficult as some fans like to make out, that with the English clubs' financial advantage getting to the quarter finals and the like should be a minimum, nobody agreed with me. Not a one. I don't think anyone does still to be honest , I'm in a minority of one.

Make that a minority of two.

You havent been on your own about this point, so stop trying to make yourself out to be some sort of matyr on the topic.

both of you are minorities 

[Toffeehater]

[banana]

Apart from Gerrard and Torres Mick?
Who in a red shirt had a better season than Dirk Kuyt once we played 4-5-1??

No one! He was excellent in everything that was asked of him and more!
What do you want from a player??Blood??

If you want to look at weak players look at Arbeloa.Allways caught out,seldom coming forward..Is he a world class Right back?No but because he is back there and not "in the action" he gets away with it?

Bottom line is you and a few others expected Dirk kuyt to bang goals in...So did I based on his record!
Put out to the right he has been great for LFC and looks a great player now and one that carries the team forward!
Some people just dont like that though because he was meant to be a striker!!

Im saying no more!
If Kuyt can carry his form from last season to this coming one,he will shut you all up with his feet and heart!
Im backing him to have a blinder from day one!

1. Most players were better than Kuyt. That includes; Skrtl, Reina, Torres, Gerrard, Arbeloa, Carra, Agger (limited number of games), Babel, Benayoun, Mascherano, Alonso,

Kuyt were on par with Leiva, Pennant and Aurelio and better than; Finnan, Riise, Crouch, Voronin and Hyypia.


What more I want from a player?
What about actually being able to go past a defender. How about scoring more goals than 1 every 15 games. What about creating something with individual piece of skills? What about not being the slowest most boring player in a red shirt since Salif Diao. What about NOT playing as a second right back 10 yards ahead of Arbeloa.

Dirk Kuyt should be offloader as soon as possible for any kind of transfer fee. LFC will NEVER win the premiership with Kuyt as a right winger/right back.

[Reg]

This isnt the Kuyt thread, its the Wind Up thread.

Kuyt is a workhorse, a catalyst, an opportunist. Sammy Lee was the same and Terry Mac.

I rate the lad and am very happy for him to remain at the club and in the first team.

If you want to sell someone for the sake of it, sell Pennant, Voronin or Yossi becuase if you ask who I´d rather have in teh team, I´d put Kuyt ahead of those 3.

[Number 9]

Apart from Gerrard and Torres Mick?
Who in a red shirt had a better season than Dirk Kuyt once we played 4-5-1??

No one! He was excellent in everything that was asked of him and more!
What do you want from a player??Blood??

If you want to look at weak players look at Arbeloa.Allways caught out,seldom coming forward..Is he a world class Right back?No but because he is back there and not "in the action" he gets away with it?

Bottom line is you and a few others expected Dirk kuyt to bang goals in...So did I based on his record!
Put out to the right he has been great for LFC and looks a great player now and one that carries the team forward!
Some people just dont like that though because he was meant to be a striker!!

Im saying no more!
If Kuyt can carry his form from last season to this coming one,he will shut you all up with his feet and heart!
Im backing him to have a blinder from day one!

1. Most players were better than Kuyt. That includes; Skrtl, Reina, Torres, Gerrard, Arbeloa, Carra, Agger (limited number of games), Babel, Benayoun, Mascherano, Alonso,

Kuyt were on par with Leiva, Pennant and Aurelio and better than; Finnan, Riise, Crouch, Voronin and Hyypia.


What more I want from a player?
What about actually being able to go past a defender. How about scoring more goals than 1 every 15 games. What about creating something with individual piece of skills? What about not being the slowest most boring player in a red shirt since Salif Diao. What about NOT playing as a second right back 10 yards ahead of Arbeloa.

Dirk Kuyt should be offloader as soon as possible for any kind of transfer fee. LFC will NEVER win the premiership with Kuyt as a right winger/right back.

Ok Banana you are right!
Rafael Benitez with his trophies at Valencia and Cups at LFC is wrong?Should he have put Pennant on the right of our 4-2-3-1 in your opinion?is he wrong to keep Kuyt?
Then theres Marco van basten manager of the multi talented Dutch side.He also opted to start Kuyt in the Euros....I guess he is an idiot as well?

I call a spade a spade mate.I missed one LFC game live all season thanks to a bad stream.Up until we changed shape to the 4-2-3-1 system Kuyt was VERY dissapointing but since he has been put in his new position I struggle to remember him having one bad game.

Its funny how everyone can forget he hit 7 goals in the C/L.Its also funny how loads of LFC fans can come on here and praise him when he plays well for Holland but overlook the fact he played equally as good for us in the last half of the season.

He came to our club with high expectations and failed in the goal scoring department.Most fans seem to have found that very hard to get over.But hes playing a different role now and playing it well.
If he keeps up the way he finished last season there is no reason why he cant play a major part in the season ahead.
He just seems to be the player that a lot of supporters love to hate!

[Richj]

I think the main reason i didn't like Kuyt last season in team was because he was keeping Crouch out of it when he was playing upfront.
I would want to keep him playing that new role he has found.

[Toffeehater]

Apart from Gerrard and Torres Mick?
Who in a red shirt had a better season than Dirk Kuyt once we played 4-5-1??

No one! He was excellent in everything that was asked of him and more!
What do you want from a player??Blood??

If you want to look at weak players look at Arbeloa.Allways caught out,seldom coming forward..Is he a world class Right back?No but because he is back there and not "in the action" he gets away with it?

Bottom line is you and a few others expected Dirk kuyt to bang goals in...So did I based on his record!
Put out to the right he has been great for LFC and looks a great player now and one that carries the team forward!
Some people just dont like that though because he was meant to be a striker!!

Im saying no more!
If Kuyt can carry his form from last season to this coming one,he will shut you all up with his feet and heart!
Im backing him to have a blinder from day one!

1. Most players were better than Kuyt. That includes; Skrtl, Reina, Torres, Gerrard, Arbeloa, Carra, Agger (limited number of games), Babel, Benayoun, Mascherano, Alonso,

Kuyt were on par with Leiva, Pennant and Aurelio and better than; Finnan, Riise, Crouch, Voronin and Hyypia.


What more I want from a player?
What about actually being able to go past a defender. How about scoring more goals than 1 every 15 games. What about creating something with individual piece of skills? What about not being the slowest most boring player in a red shirt since Salif Diao. What about NOT playing as a second right back 10 yards ahead of Arbeloa.

Dirk Kuyt should be offloader as soon as possible for any kind of transfer fee. LFC will NEVER win the premiership with Kuyt as a right winger/right back.

Ok Banana you are right!
Rafael Benitez with his trophies at Valencia and Cups at LFC is wrong?Should he have put Pennant on the right of our 4-2-3-1 in your opinion?is he wrong to keep Kuyt?
Then theres Marco van basten manager of the multi talented Dutch side.He also opted to start Kuyt in the Euros....I guess he is an idiot as well?

I call a spade a spade mate.I missed one LFC game live all season thanks to a bad stream.Up until we changed shape to the 4-2-3-1 system Kuyt was VERY dissapointing but since he has been put in his new position I struggle to remember him having one bad game.

Its funny how everyone can forget he hit 7 goals in the C/L.Its also funny how loads of LFC fans can come on here and praise him when he plays well for Holland but overlook the fact he played equally as good for us in the last half of the season.

He came to our club with high expectations and failed in the goal scoring department.Most fans seem to have found that very hard to get over.But hes playing a different role now and playing it well.
If he keeps up the way he finished last season there is no reason why he cant play a major part in the season ahead.
He just seems to be the player that a lot of supporters love to hate!

Sums up what i wanted to post really . Good post mate

[Owzat]

Apart from Gerrard and Torres Mick?
Who in a red shirt had a better season than Dirk Kuyt once we played 4-5-1??

No one! He was excellent in everything that was asked of him and more!
What do you want from a player??Blood??

If you want to look at weak players look at Arbeloa.Allways caught out,seldom coming forward..Is he a world class Right back?No but because he is back there and not "in the action" he gets away with it?

Bottom line is you and a few others expected Dirk kuyt to bang goals in...So did I based on his record!
Put out to the right he has been great for LFC and looks a great player now and one that carries the team forward!
Some people just dont like that though because he was meant to be a striker!!

Im saying no more!
If Kuyt can carry his form from last season to this coming one,he will shut you all up with his feet and heart!
Im backing him to have a blinder from day one!

1. Most players were better than Kuyt. That includes; Skrtl, Reina, Torres, Gerrard, Arbeloa, Carra, Agger (limited number of games), Babel, Benayoun, Mascherano, Alonso,

Kuyt were on par with Leiva, Pennant and Aurelio and better than; Finnan, Riise, Crouch, Voronin and Hyypia.


What more I want from a player?
What about actually being able to go past a defender. How about scoring more goals than 1 every 15 games. What about creating something with individual piece of skills? What about not being the slowest most boring player in a red shirt since Salif Diao. What about NOT playing as a second right back 10 yards ahead of Arbeloa.

Dirk Kuyt should be offloader as soon as possible for any kind of transfer fee. LFC will NEVER win the premiership with Kuyt as a right winger/right back.

Ok Banana you are right!
Rafael Benitez with his trophies at Valencia and Cups at LFC is wrong?Should he have put Pennant on the right of our 4-2-3-1 in your opinion?is he wrong to keep Kuyt?
Then theres Marco van basten manager of the multi talented Dutch side.He also opted to start Kuyt in the Euros....I guess he is an idiot as well?

I call a spade a spade mate.I missed one LFC game live all season thanks to a bad stream.Up until we changed shape to the 4-2-3-1 system Kuyt was VERY dissapointing but since he has been put in his new position I struggle to remember him having one bad game.

Its funny how everyone can forget he hit 7 goals in the C/L.Its also funny how loads of LFC fans can come on here and praise him when he plays well for Holland but overlook the fact he played equally as good for us in the last half of the season.

He came to our club with high expectations and failed in the goal scoring department.Most fans seem to have found that very hard to get over.But hes playing a different role now and playing it well.
If he keeps up the way he finished last season there is no reason why he cant play a major part in the season ahead.
He just seems to be the player that a lot of supporters love to hate!

"Most players were better than Kuyt" and "Kuyt were on par with Leiva, Pennant and Aurelio and better than; Finnan, Riise, Crouch, Voronin and Hyypia."

Reading that is there much point taking the poster seriously. Agger didn't even play that much, Arbeloa was becoming the forgotten man and Kuyt had more good games than he's being given credit for. The lists reek tooooo much of bias, saying Kuyt played worse than half the squad, parring him with Pennant and Aurelio and then putting Crouch and Hyypia bottom of the pile. Even I'll admit Hyypia had a pretty decent season, Kuyt may have played better but I'd disagree with the ordering and it's like any half-baked, top of the head list you'll see on here. Simply rename "want to keep", "don't care much for" and "want rid" and you'll see the real motivation.

Kuyt had a disappointing start to the season, but if ever someone deserved credit for a turnaround to his season it is Kuyt. The only players I would say without question had a better end of season are those who had a good season throughout - Torres and Gerrard.

And the bit about 1 goal every 15 games is typical BS from a clueless muppet, he scored 7 CL goals alone and most certainly did not play 105 games last season.

[Number 9]

Apart from Gerrard and Torres Mick?
Who in a red shirt had a better season than Dirk Kuyt once we played 4-5-1??

No one! He was excellent in everything that was asked of him and more!
What do you want from a player??Blood??

If you want to look at weak players look at Arbeloa.Allways caught out,seldom coming forward..Is he a world class Right back?No but because he is back there and not "in the action" he gets away with it?

Bottom line is you and a few others expected Dirk kuyt to bang goals in...So did I based on his record!
Put out to the right he has been great for LFC and looks a great player now and one that carries the team forward!
Some people just dont like that though because he was meant to be a striker!!

Im saying no more!
If Kuyt can carry his form from last season to this coming one,he will shut you all up with his feet and heart!
Im backing him to have a blinder from day one!

1. Most players were better than Kuyt. That includes; Skrtl, Reina, Torres, Gerrard, Arbeloa, Carra, Agger (limited number of games), Babel, Benayoun, Mascherano, Alonso,

Kuyt were on par with Leiva, Pennant and Aurelio and better than; Finnan, Riise, Crouch, Voronin and Hyypia.


What more I want from a player?
What about actually being able to go past a defender. How about scoring more goals than 1 every 15 games. What about creating something with individual piece of skills? What about not being the slowest most boring player in a red shirt since Salif Diao. What about NOT playing as a second right back 10 yards ahead of Arbeloa.

Dirk Kuyt should be offloader as soon as possible for any kind of transfer fee. LFC will NEVER win the premiership with Kuyt as a right winger/right back.

Ok Banana you are right!
Rafael Benitez with his trophies at Valencia and Cups at LFC is wrong?Should he have put Pennant on the right of our 4-2-3-1 in your opinion?is he wrong to keep Kuyt?
Then theres Marco van basten manager of the multi talented Dutch side.He also opted to start Kuyt in the Euros....I guess he is an idiot as well?

I call a spade a spade mate.I missed one LFC game live all season thanks to a bad stream.Up until we changed shape to the 4-2-3-1 system Kuyt was VERY dissapointing but since he has been put in his new position I struggle to remember him having one bad game.

Its funny how everyone can forget he hit 7 goals in the C/L.Its also funny how loads of LFC fans can come on here and praise him when he plays well for Holland but overlook the fact he played equally as good for us in the last half of the season.

He came to our club with high expectations and failed in the goal scoring department.Most fans seem to have found that very hard to get over.But hes playing a different role now and playing it well.
If he keeps up the way he finished last season there is no reason why he cant play a major part in the season ahead.
He just seems to be the player that a lot of supporters love to hate!

"Most players were better than Kuyt" and "Kuyt were on par with Leiva, Pennant and Aurelio and better than; Finnan, Riise, Crouch, Voronin and Hyypia."

Reading that is there much point taking the poster seriously. Agger didn't even play that much, Arbeloa was becoming the forgotten man and Kuyt had more good games than he's being given credit for. The lists reek tooooo much of bias, saying Kuyt played worse than half the squad, parring him with Pennant and Aurelio and then putting Crouch and Hyypia bottom of the pile. Even I'll admit Hyypia had a pretty decent season, Kuyt may have played better but I'd disagree with the ordering and it's like any half-baked, top of the head list you'll see on here. Simply rename "want to keep", "don't care much for" and "want rid" and you'll see the real motivation.

Kuyt had a disappointing start to the season, but if ever someone deserved credit for a turnaround to his season it is Kuyt. The only players I would say without question had a better end of season are those who had a good season throughout - Torres and Gerrard.

And the bit about 1 goal every 15 games is typical BS from a clueless muppet, he scored 7 CL goals alone and most certainly did not play 105 games last season.

True Owzat!!
I never highlighted those points,I think banana done a good enough job himself!
As i said before though if(and i think he will) play as well this season as he played the second half of last he will get the respect he deserves.

[banana]

Apart from Gerrard and Torres Mick?
Who in a red shirt had a better season than Dirk Kuyt once we played 4-5-1??

No one! He was excellent in everything that was asked of him and more!
What do you want from a player??Blood??

If you want to look at weak players look at Arbeloa.Allways caught out,seldom coming forward..Is he a world class Right back?No but because he is back there and not "in the action" he gets away with it?

Bottom line is you and a few others expected Dirk kuyt to bang goals in...So did I based on his record!
Put out to the right he has been great for LFC and looks a great player now and one that carries the team forward!
Some people just dont like that though because he was meant to be a striker!!

Im saying no more!
If Kuyt can carry his form from last season to this coming one,he will shut you all up with his feet and heart!
Im backing him to have a blinder from day one!

1. Most players were better than Kuyt. That includes; Skrtl, Reina, Torres, Gerrard, Arbeloa, Carra, Agger (limited number of games), Babel, Benayoun, Mascherano, Alonso,

Kuyt were on par with Leiva, Pennant and Aurelio and better than; Finnan, Riise, Crouch, Voronin and Hyypia.


What more I want from a player?
What about actually being able to go past a defender. How about scoring more goals than 1 every 15 games. What about creating something with individual piece of skills? What about not being the slowest most boring player in a red shirt since Salif Diao. What about NOT playing as a second right back 10 yards ahead of Arbeloa.

Dirk Kuyt should be offloader as soon as possible for any kind of transfer fee. LFC will NEVER win the premiership with Kuyt as a right winger/right back.

Ok Banana you are right!
Rafael Benitez with his trophies at Valencia and Cups at LFC is wrong?Should he have put Pennant on the right of our 4-2-3-1 in your opinion?is he wrong to keep Kuyt?
Then theres Marco van basten manager of the multi talented Dutch side.He also opted to start Kuyt in the Euros....I guess he is an idiot as well?

I call a spade a spade mate.I missed one LFC game live all season thanks to a bad stream.Up until we changed shape to the 4-2-3-1 system Kuyt was VERY dissapointing but since he has been put in his new position I struggle to remember him having one bad game.

Its funny how everyone can forget he hit 7 goals in the C/L.Its also funny how loads of LFC fans can come on here and praise him when he plays well for Holland but overlook the fact he played equally as good for us in the last half of the season.

He came to our club with high expectations and failed in the goal scoring department.Most fans seem to have found that very hard to get over.But hes playing a different role now and playing it well.
If he keeps up the way he finished last season there is no reason why he cant play a major part in the season ahead.
He just seems to be the player that a lot of supporters love to hate!

"Most players were better than Kuyt" and "Kuyt were on par with Leiva, Pennant and Aurelio and better than; Finnan, Riise, Crouch, Voronin and Hyypia."

Reading that is there much point taking the poster seriously. Agger didn't even play that much, Arbeloa was becoming the forgotten man and Kuyt had more good games than he's being given credit for. The lists reek tooooo much of bias, saying Kuyt played worse than half the squad, parring him with Pennant and Aurelio and then putting Crouch and Hyypia bottom of the pile. Even I'll admit Hyypia had a pretty decent season, Kuyt may have played better but I'd disagree with the ordering and it's like any half-baked, top of the head list you'll see on here. Simply rename "want to keep", "don't care much for" and "want rid" and you'll see the real motivation.

Kuyt had a disappointing start to the season, but if ever someone deserved credit for a turnaround to his season it is Kuyt. The only players I would say without question had a better end of season are those who had a good season throughout - Torres and Gerrard.

And the bit about 1 goal every 15 games is typical BS from a clueless muppet, he scored 7 CL goals alone and most certainly did not play 105 games last season.

True Owzat!!
I never highlighted those points,I think banana done a good enough job himself!
As i said before though if(and i think he will) play as well this season as he played the second half of last he will get the respect he deserves.

Oh yeah. He was so dangerous. Fact is he scored about 1 leagua goal every 15 games That is a fact you can not deny. His tally was 3 goals. Number of games is 38. If you also consider the fact that he scored two goals in one game then he only scored every 19 games or so. Sorry. That's not enough. Kuyt out.

It puzzles me that some fans want a team full of Kuyts and Hyypias. Hyypia destroyed Liverpools title hopes. Or that is; when Agger got injured it was all over. Only after LFC bought Skrtl did the defence look solid. The games with Hyypia and Carra was depressing. It was so depressing that Benitez was forced to try Arbeloa and Riise as centre backs.


How many times did Kuyt beat his defender per game?
How many times did Kuyt produce something on his own per game?
How many goals should he have scored in a full league season?
Do you think any premiership left back is scared when playing agains Kuyt?
Looking at comparable teams able to qualify for Champions league semis who would you pick on right wing;

Ronaldo (Man U)
Schweinsteiger (Bayern)
Messi (Barcelona)
Sneijder (Real Madrid)
Hleb (Arsenal)
and so on and so on