Liverpool FC Forum

[heimdall]

I think Clarke has a bit to answer for tactically with regard to this game. Just because that system worked against Chelsea twice earlier in the season. In those games we had Maxi in the team and Lucas and Adam dominating midfield. Spearing physically and in terms of making things happen going forward is far more limited than either Lucas or Adam. Gerrard I'm afraid to say looked on saturday a pale shadow of his former self. It was Downing who set up the first goal for Carroll and Johnson and Suarez who nearly set up another one for Carroll.

Tactically it seems to me that the tactics on saturday came apart after the first ten minutes when we went behind. The team was clearly set up to contain Chelsea in the midfield early on with Bellamy out wide so that later on in the half Gerrard and Bellamy could push on to create something. That approach failed with their opening goal and once Liverpool failed score with the five minutes of pressure after the goal they had to change tack which they coudn't do.

it was an ill conceived system had Carroll and Kuyt been on from the start up front and out wide with Henderson in the middle we would have had a target to cause them problems and a more attacking approach that would have made the first ten minutes a different start.

Any blame on Kenny or is he perhaps not in charge of tactics either, in the way that he's not in charge of motivating players or picking good transfers. Perhaps someone can explain what exactly Kenny is paid to do, or at least attempt to to? Maybe he's just paid to give arrogant and obtuse TV interviews.

[Benny The Noon]

In the years on here Heimdall I have never once seen you have a good word to say about Liverpool.

You disrespected Rafa on a daily basis saying he was ***** and now it's Kenny with you saying you want Rafa back ?!

You are an uneducated Lemming without an original thought of your own.

[friendlyguy33]

I think Clarke has a bit to answer for tactically with regard to this game. Just because that system worked against Chelsea twice earlier in the season. In those games we had Maxi in the team and Lucas and Adam dominating midfield. Spearing physically and in terms of making things happen going forward is far more limited than either Lucas or Adam. Gerrard I'm afraid to say looked on saturday a pale shadow of his former self. It was Downing who set up the first goal for Carroll and Johnson and Suarez who nearly set up another one for Carroll.

Tactically it seems to me that the tactics on saturday came apart after the first ten minutes when we went behind. The team was clearly set up to contain Chelsea in the midfield early on with Bellamy out wide so that later on in the half Gerrard and Bellamy could push on to create something. That approach failed with their opening goal and once Liverpool failed score with the five minutes of pressure after the goal they had to change tack which they coudn't do.

it was an ill conceived system had Carroll and Kuyt been on from the start up front and out wide with Henderson in the middle we would have had a target to cause them problems and a more attacking approach that would have made the first ten minutes a different start.

Any blame on Kenny or is he perhaps not in charge of tactics either, in the way that he's not in charge of motivating players or picking good transfers. Perhaps someone can explain what exactly Kenny is paid to do, or at least attempt to to? Maybe he's just paid to give arrogant and obtuse TV interviews.

I noticed in the interview with LFCTV after the game Kenny said on one question 'I've said that' which I found strange to say that to the club channel. I stick with what I said the approach came unstuck because the side never got into the game because of how poorly they started and losing a goal in ten minutes. Kenny is primarily responsible for that as the manager but also the assistant if he has an input into tactics.

I found Ray Houghton's comments that he was surprised that they started the game badly, bizarre. Didn't he watch the Cardiff game or the semi-final against Everton? I sometimes wonder about these ex players and pundits do they really watch that many of the games or really pay attention when they are watching? McAteer said the other night at the end of the Fulham game that it took Liverpool 36 minutes to create a chance yet I'm sure that Shelvey's shot was cleared off the line long before that.

[stmichael]

At the end of the day it ultimately comes down to players not tactics, especially in regards to winning the premier league. United have proved that for years playing 4-4-2 and smashing dross week in week out.

Ferguson is shocking tactically in the really big games, as proved by when he got destroyed by Barca in 09 and then played the exact same formation 2 years later and got hammered even more heavily. His tactics at City were shocking the other week and his inability to shut up shop at 4-2 up against Everton has basically cost them the title.

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

At the end of the day it ultimately comes down to players not tactics, especially in regards to winning the premier league. United have proved that for years playing 4-4-2 and smashing dross week in week out.

Ferguson is shocking tactically in the really big games, as proved by when he got destroyed by Barca in 09 and then played the exact same formation 2 years later and got hammered even more heavily. His tactics at City were shocking the other week and his inability to shut up shop at 4-2 up against Everton has basically cost them the title.

ferguson is a brave manager though, his philosophy has always been to attack and his teams have always committed plenty of players into the opposition box. if they are losing he`s not afraid to go gung ho and throw 3 attacking subs on to try and rescue a game. his teams also never seem to know when they are beaten, it`s very rare you see a united side with their heads down and feeling sorry for themselves if they are 1-0 down and there`s still 20 minutes left.
i`ve seen liverpool sides in recent times give up the ghost practically the moment the opposition score even if there`s half the game or more to go.

[stmichael]

At the end of the day it ultimately comes down to players not tactics, especially in regards to winning the premier league. United have proved that for years playing 4-4-2 and smashing dross week in week out.

Ferguson is shocking tactically in the really big games, as proved by when he got destroyed by Barca in 09 and then played the exact same formation 2 years later and got hammered even more heavily. His tactics at City were shocking the other week and his inability to shut up shop at 4-2 up against Everton has basically cost them the title.

ferguson is a brave manager though, his philosophy has always been to attack and his teams have always committed plenty of players into the opposition box. if they are losing he`s not afraid to go gung ho and throw 3 attacking subs on to try and rescue a game. his teams also never seem to know when they are beaten, it`s very rare you see a united side with their heads down and feeling sorry for themselves if they are 1-0 down and there`s still 20 minutes left.
i`ve seen liverpool sides in recent times give up the ghost practically the moment the opposition score even if there`s half the game or more to go.

i agree but that's my point. it's ok throwing attackers on in the premier league because 90% of teams buckle under the pressure and the belief that united have that they will score no matter what. as soon as it's a massive game in the premier league or in europe he goes all defensive, sticks rooney upfront on his own and plays 5 across the middle. they didn't have a clue against city.

agree that we are mentally weak though. it's a joke infact. we severely lack leaders in the mould of carragher, alonso and mascherano. i would describe lucas as somewhat of a leader and skrtel has developed into one this season but too many of our players are fragile mentally as you say.

[red till i die!!]

its all down to the drive and mentality of the players to enforce the tactics that they are sent out to perform.
there is no way kenny tells them just to go out and have a go for the sake of it.
we have a fairly average team that has too many weak players in it.its not like it was a couple of years ago when we had stars who could carry them through games and we'd still get a result.
now we have spearing who isnt good enough.downing who has no bottle and henderson who has been below par for 98% of the matches he has featured in.from the bench we have the anonymous maxi and kuyt who is past it,bellamy who cant play 2 games straight and that shadow of a lad who played with blackpool last season.each of those have played a decent game here and there but they are no where near consistent and too often coast through games and therein lies our problem.
pace isnt solely the reason we cant get players in the box.we counter attack in every game but often when we do it ends up going wide to the likes of downing or henderson only for them to stop and pass it back in the direction it came from.kuyt is another culprit and every time it breaks down our flow and we lose possession and a chance and thats why so often this season in matches we barely get a shot on target.teams like utd and city dont do that and when they get you on the back foot they capitalise because their players want to win and will fight tooth and nail till the death to get it.
ramires scored the first the other day and even under pressure he still held his nerve to wrong foot pepe and slot it in.how many times have we been in similar positions only to opt to hammer it rather than pick a spot and take the chance that was given to you.you either have it or you dont and we have very few in our squad with the inteligence or composure to finish it.
this season nearly every bottom club has beaten us and that was unheard of in previous years and all we had to worry about was how we'd fare out against the top sides.
we can blame the woodwork,referees and just bad luck but the truth lies in the quality of the players we have playing for us and unless better are brought in we can expect similar next season as the deadwood are beginning to stink the place out and dragging the rest down with them and along with it our hopes of getting anywhere near the top again.
it wouldnt matter a bit who the manager is next season as that squad as it is isnt capable of much better than what they have shown this year.

[carmonkeycasino]

its all down to the drive and mentality of the players to enforce the tactics that they are sent out to perform.
there is no way kenny tells them just to go out and have a go for the sake of it.
we have a fairly average team that has too many weak players in it.its not like it was a couple of years ago when we had stars who could carry them through games and we'd still get a result.
now we have spearing who isnt good enough.downing who has no bottle and henderson who has been below par for 98% of the matches he has featured in.from the bench we have the anonymous maxi and kuyt who is past it,bellamy who cant play 2 games straight and that shadow of a lad who played with blackpool last season.each of those have played a decent game here and there but they are no where near consistent and too often coast through games and therein lies our problem.
pace isnt solely the reason we cant get players in the box.we counter attack in every game but often when we do it ends up going wide to the likes of downing or henderson only for them to stop and pass it back in the direction it came from.kuyt is another culprit and every time it breaks down our flow and we lose possession and a chance and thats why so often this season in matches we barely get a shot on target.teams like utd and city dont do that and when they get you on the back foot they capitalise because their players want to win and will fight tooth and nail till the death to get it.
ramires scored the first the other day and even under pressure he still held his nerve to wrong foot pepe and slot it in.how many times have we been in similar positions only to opt to hammer it rather than pick a spot and take the chance that was given to you.you either have it or you dont and we have very few in our squad with the inteligence or composure to finish it.
this season nearly every bottom club has beaten us and that was unheard of in previous years and all we had to worry about was how we'd fare out against the top sides.
we can blame the woodwork,referees and just bad luck but the truth lies in the quality of the players we have playing for us and unless better are brought in we can expect similar next season as the deadwood are beginning to stink the place out and dragging the rest down with them and along with it our hopes of getting anywhere near the top again.
it wouldnt matter a bit who the manager is next season as that squad as it is isnt capable of much better than what they have shown this year.

Agreed. Kenny’s not stupid. But at the same time he’s not getting the best out of what he has. He seemed to bring out the best in players last season but the fact that he can’t do it this season may just be down to the quality of the players he has now. The first half of the season was fine — we were dominating teams but just couldn’t finish. We all thought the floodgates will eventually open but as the season has gone on it’s become apparent that our players are poor finishers. It’s not unlucky when you hit the bar that many times — it’s bad finishing.

The squad is so weak, theres no getting away from that fact. Kenny said after the Arsenal game (at the Emirates) that we had a strong squad, but anybody could see that we really were lacking depth and still are. We have to stop relying on Gerrard because he’s getting on now, and I’m starting to think that Reina and Suarez will leave in the summer. Where does that leave us? Alot of money was spent on certain players during the summer and we’ll probably have to stick with them for a couple of years after such a heavy investment. Henderson, Downing and Carroll will definitely stay, but surely Adam and Spearing will be shipped out. It’s worrying. If Suarez did leave we could get a hefty sum which we could use to maybe buy some decent players from the continent (like Newcastle did), but its not as simple as it sounds and I’d never trust Dalglish with money after the garbage he’s brought in.

The writing is definitely on the wall for Kenny, but can this club really be saved — we’re in freefall.

[stmichael]

I’m starting to think that Reina and Suarez will leave in the summer.

the same suarez who just recently extended his contract and said he wanted to stay?

i'm not going to get caught up in all the hyperbole about him "loving the club" after what's happened with players in the past but he owes us just a little bit of loyalty after the way the club stood by him this season.

[Thommo's perm]

I’m starting to think that Reina and Suarez will leave in the summer.

the same suarez who just recently extended his contract and said he wanted to stay?

i'm not going to get caught up in all the hyperbole about him "loving the club" after what's happened with players in the past but he owes us just a little bit of loyalty after the way the club stood by him this season.

He would have a f*cking cheek to leave after being banned for 9 games and acting like the invisible man for over an hour in the FA cup final

[red till i die!!]

suarez wont be going anywhere except on holiday with his family this summer and he will return for preseason.
he wont be leaving this club unless they want him to and that aint gonna happen.

[heimdall]

I’m starting to think that Reina and Suarez will leave in the summer.

the same suarez who just recently extended his contract and said he wanted to stay?

i'm not going to get caught up in all the hyperbole about him "loving the club" after what's happened with players in the past but he owes us just a little bit of loyalty after the way the club stood by him this season.

I wouldn't be to upset if Reina went though, we'd get a fair chunk of money for him and from what I've seen Doni almost looks a better goalkeeper, he's certainly a better one-on-one shot stopper, something which Reina has never been great at.

[heimdall]

In the years on here Heimdall I have never once seen you have a good word to say about Liverpool.

You disrespected Rafa on a daily basis saying he was ***** and now it's Kenny with you saying you want Rafa back ?!

You are an uneducated Lemming without an original thought of your own.

Uneducated? I have 2 degrees, one of them a masters degree. 

No original thoughts? They may be controversial, I'll give you that, but they are at least original, I'm not copying them from someone else, unliek some posters.

Disprestful to bad maaagement, always! 

[Benny The Noon]

In the years on here Heimdall I have never once seen you have a good word to say about Liverpool.

You disrespected Rafa on a daily basis saying he was ***** and now it's Kenny with you saying you want Rafa back ?!

You are an uneducated Lemming without an original thought of your own.

Uneducated? I have 2 degrees, one of them a masters degree. 

No original thoughts? They may be controversial, I'll give you that, but they are at least original, I'm not copying them from someone else, unliek some posters.

Disprestful to bad maaagement, always! 

Having a degree doesnt mean you know anything about football and we all know you know zero about football.

[Thommo's perm]

In the years on here Heimdall I have never once seen you have a good word to say about Liverpool.

You disrespected Rafa on a daily basis saying he was ***** and now it's Kenny with you saying you want Rafa back ?!

You are an uneducated Lemming without an original thought of your own.

Uneducated? I have 2 degrees, one of them a masters degree. 

No original thoughts? They may be controversial, I'll give you that, but they are at least original, I'm not copying them from someone else, unliek some posters.

Disprestful to bad maaagement, always! 

2 degrees? What in, bullshitting and totally missing the point?