Liverpool FC Forum

[115-1073096938]

Right. So far, i've seen this lad enough to make a judgement on him. He's had good and bad games and i've come to the conclusion he was probably a waste of 2million. (waste maybe a bit harsh).

Yes he's looked solid and aggressive and looks a decent player, but can anybody here sit there and tell me he's a class act or he's the sort of player we're gonna build a side around?

I mean to me, we have Riise, Hyypia and Carragher at right back who are all good enough, what we lack imo is a quality centre half, not a decent right back. I don't think Josemi is better than Carragher, i think he's equal at most and Jamie loves the club so for me gets the nod.

I used a points system once to describe a title winning team in terms of players and ability... I gave players who are at the club they love an extra half if i thought they deserved it.

6. world class
5. top class.
4. class
3. quality
2. good player
1. squad player

a title winning team imo would have at least 14 points...

Arsenal...

4. Cole
5. Campbell
3. Toure
2. Lauren

Man Utd...

3. O'Shea
3. Silvestre
6. Ferdinand
2.5 Neville

Chelsea...

3. Bridge
4. Terry
5. Gallas
3. Johnson

Liverpool...

3. Riise
4. Hyypia
2.5 Carragher
2. Josemi

To me that suggests we're a top class centre half away from having a superb defence. I'd say Josemi is the same level of player as Gary Neville... is that really what we need?

[LFC #1]

agree we need another centre half. Chelsea also have Paulo Ferreira and Carvalho who are class players, which IMO gives Chelsea the best defense in the premiership.

I think Josemi has been a good buy for 2 million, a good addition to the squad but as you say not someone you would build a team around. (saying he is a waste of money is very harsh IMO)

[Woollyback]

Right. So far, i've seen this lad enough to make a judgement on him. He's had good and bad games and i've come to the conclusion he was probably a waste of 2million. (waste maybe a bit harsh).

Yes he's looked solid and aggressive and looks a decent player, but can anybody here sit there and tell me he's a class act or he's the sort of player we're gonna build a side around?

I mean to me, we have Riise, Hyypia and Carragher at right back who are all good enough, what we lack imo is a quality centre half, not a decent right back. I don't think Josemi is better than Carragher, i think he's equal at most and Jamie loves the club so for me gets the nod.

I used a points system once to describe a title winning team in terms of players and ability... I gave players who are at the club they love an extra half if i thought they deserved it.

6. world class
5. top class.
4. class
3. quality
2. good player
1. squad player

a title winning team imo would have at least 14 points...

Arsenal...

4. Cole
5. Campbell
3. Toure
2. Lauren

Man Utd...

3. O'Shea
3. Silvestre
6. Ferdinand
2.5 Neville

Chelsea...

3. Bridge
4. Terry
5. Gallas
3. Johnson

Liverpool...

3. Riise
4. Hyypia
2.5 Carragher
2. Josemi

To me that suggests we're a top class centre half away from having a superb defence. I'd say Josemi is the same level of player as Gary Neville... is that really what we need?

Thanks for the mathematical formula, Stato. We've missed all that since Owzat went awol.

Anyway, agree about Josemi - think his heart's in the right place but he's never gonna win the CL for us. Having said that, neither is Riise.

[115-1073096938]

Yeah fair enough.

Forgot about Ferriera, don't think that Carvalho's better than Gallas or Terry tho. Can't see that one.

[LFC #1]

fair enough, but you wouldn't mind having to choose from those 3 as your starting 2 centre-halfs, all class players.

[Dalglish]

Thanks for the formulae Stu, my heads stil hurting from adding up

Without doubt though we need a centre back of proven top quality. On current form Carra would keep his place and Hyppia would be under threat but over the long term Hyppia is first choice. How about dispensing with Rise (Who can't defend very well anyway) and place Carra at left back where he spent a large part of last season and keep faith with Josemi  who to be fair has hardly put a foot wrong?

[A.B.]

Right. So far, i've seen this lad enough to make a judgement on him. He's had good and bad games and i've come to the conclusion he was probably a waste of 2million. (waste maybe a bit harsh).

Yes he's looked solid and aggressive and looks a decent player, but can anybody here sit there and tell me he's a class act or he's the sort of player we're gonna build a side around?

I mean to me, we have Riise, Hyypia and Carragher at right back who are all good enough, what we lack imo is a quality centre half, not a decent right back. I don't think Josemi is better than Carragher, i think he's equal at most and Jamie loves the club so for me gets the nod.

I used a points system once to describe a title winning team in terms of players and ability... I gave players who are at the club they love an extra half if i thought they deserved it.

6. world class
5. top class.
4. class
3. quality
2. good player
1. squad player

a title winning team imo would have at least 14 points...

Arsenal...

4. Cole
5. Campbell
3. Toure
2. Lauren

Man Utd...

3. O'Shea
3. Silvestre
6. Ferdinand
2.5 Neville

Chelsea...

3. Bridge
4. Terry
5. Gallas
3. Johnson

Liverpool...

3. Riise
4. Hyypia
2.5 Carragher
2. Josemi

To me that suggests we're a top class centre half away from having a superb defence. I'd say Josemi is the same level of player as Gary Neville... is that really what we need?

7 Premiership games is enough for you? You should be a pundit on Sky Sports.

Wait till the end of the season Sherlock.

[zarababe]

.. from singing his praises... to ...   Players do have off days too...

[addicted norwegian]

I still believe that £2M for Josemi is a bargain. I think that he has been one of our best players so far this season. He seems like hard nail on the defencive side and has also proven his offencive skills. I`m convinced that when he`s linked up with a better winger than Finnan we will see great combinations leading to great crosses into the box.

He has had off days, but then again who hasn`t, but I`m convinced that he will be a great asset to our team.

Btw, Neville 2.5 and Josemi 2   Pass the joint

[antz]

stu the t******

[stmichael]

from what i have seen so far i would say josemi has looked "solid" rather than spectacular. his aggressive nature will make him a crowd favourite here and for 2m i don't think it's a bad investment, especially when chelsea paid 13m for paulo ferreira. i think playing in the champions league will help josemi work on some of his basic defending as he'll be playing against better players. already this season, the "class wingers", i.e. duff, ronaldo have made him look distinctly average.

[Bruno Zidane!]

The only off day ive really seen Josemi have was against Man u and id love to see you stu the red mark ronaldo when his in the form he showed that night, i wrote ronaldo off when he first come but id die for someone with that kind of ability in a liverpool shirt no matter how much i hate to say it.....also stu how many teams bulid there team around there right back? and how can you say riise is good enough when he sh!ts himself away from home or against anyone decent, at home riise looks great but when theres a bit of responibilty threw on his sholders he bottles it, if Rafa does invade spain again i hope its for bilbaos left back del horno cos he is pure quality (for anyone whos seen him)

[banana]

Now I know why our opinions differ at times. When you can give Josemi 2 points and Hyypia 4 on your scale, I just laugh. If I was an attacker I know for sure who I would have loved to face. Hyypia is only good in the air. He lacks pace, he is not the best passer of the ball, he often gets caught out of position , and so on. Hyypia is average at best and his game depends on good defensive midfielders doing a lot of running and tackling, taking the heat of central defence. For me Hyypia is the one to replace right now, not Riise, not Josemi and certainly not Carragher. When you think Hyypia is better than O'Shea and just as good as Cole and almost as good as Gallas you are completely off the mark. Gallas is a big, strong, athletic player who has proven himself in just about any defensive position. He tore us apart with his offensive runs and good passing at stamford bridge. He has the ability to go past defenders and deliver good crosses. Not many central defenders can do that. O'Shea can also play everywhere, he is quick, young and a superb defender. When Utd had a lot of injuries he deputised in midfield, and he gave some really good performances there. It is outright stupid to compare Hyypia to players like that. Hyypia is nothing in comparison. He must be replaced as soon as possible with a better, faster and more creative and comfortable player.

And I don't know why you try to fool yourselves with Carragher. He is not a right back Stu. He is a central defender. He can play right back, but his limitations are so many that it makes him very ineffective in this position. Carragher loves playing CD, and he has improved his game a lot this year just by getting to play in his favourite and natural position week in week out.

[Redtribe]

To be fair is any team built around a right back?
I think he has been a good buy. He is still adjusting so i dont think we have seen the best of him yet!
As far as i know Rafa has been asking to concentrate on his defence first, so i would expect to see more of him going forward later in the year.
Though you are quite right a centre half for me is urgently required!
And i hink Hypia is the man to make way!

[Leonmc0708]

Guys, look I know Stu does court contoversy in the way he posts, but try a discussion instead of a personal attack.

He has some good ideas and points hidden away amongst the sharp tounge and controversial writing style.

Back on subject, I have been a little disapointed by Josemi, after a bright start, he has been made to look ordinary against better players, however I do think that a combination of inexperince at this level, a less than solid back four and the adaptation of new ways of marking (zones for example) have made it a little more difficult for the lad. His no nonsense "old school" approach to tackling is great to see, and he can encourage the fans with his style, I know that I get excited/worked up and therefore more vocal when I see a hefty challenge thrown in, escpecially against an opposing teams "star man".

I do think that to label the lad a waste of money is ridiculous, however I know now that this is simply Stu's way of encouraging discussion, at the same time as upholding his reputation (under threat of late from the Hustler) as the most controversial and outspoken member of this forum.

Banana, your appraisal of John O'Sh1t as a "superb defender is laughable. The lad is mediocre at best, and has a long long way to go before he is anywhere near that level.

St Michael, once again an excellent point, at £2m Josemi looks a snip in comparrison to Ferriera, even if it is Chelski prices.

Also, Stu, you telling me that Rio is world class? I dont think so, he is good, but he needs to play top level football for a good couple of years before he can be called that. At Chelsea, Terry is much the better defender, better than Gallas and Carvalho. And though it pains me to say it, Gary Neville proved at the Euros that he is excellent in defence as well as attack.