Liverpool FC Forum

[Sabre]

John Toshack is very related to San Sebastian, Real Sociedad and Liverpool. He writes every week in the local paper, and while he makes comments about LFC on regular basis, he has written a whole article about LFC this time.

I'll translate it roughly, and I'll ask your opinion

Translation

Facing the Barça-Liverpool

By John Benjamin Toshack.

Here we are again thinking of the Champions League. We have reached the authentic K.O. stage. Group games are behind us and there's not place for mistakes. This IS the actual cup.

The draw that actually interests me is the one that is going to be played by Barcelona and Liverpool. The last two champions, face to face.

6 weeks ago Rafa Benitez's team was eliminated from two competitions in only 4 days, by losing twice against the same team, Arsenal, and both times in Anfield.

The supporters were then in a state of shock due to that, since in that two matches Arsenal made a whole lot of 9 goals, where as LFC made 4.

Plus, Benitez said that "Nothing happens. League and CHampions are our priority". Now there's one thing for sure. It's true that the league and the CL are the most important competitions, but in LFC there have been always another thing that is most important: the team. The team had always the must and the mentality of winning and winning, and in that two matches, 80000 people paid an important amount of money and went to Anfield with hope only to watch their team be defeated.

Plus, losing those matches against the same archrival team is something that won't be forgotten easily.


That's why a lot of criticism fell over Rafa's head and many people, thought even that there was some lack of respect in his words toward the crowd that assisted those matches.

When Benitez talked about the need of spending more money in order to compete with Chelsea and Manchester, people had to make him remember aswell, that since his arrival at Anfield, the club has spent more than 100 Million Euros in 20 players, and some of this players like Morientes, Pellegrino, Nuñez, Kronkamp are already outside the club. All this in less than 3 years.

Our Xabi Alonso is one of the few signings that has been an utter sucess and there's a theory in Liverpool that states that perhaps it's better to spend the same money in the half of players, that's to say, more skill, more quality, and less quantity. Besides, the spine of the team, is still Carra, Hyypia, Gerrard, Finnan and Riise, all of them signed up by the previous manager.

Despite he was Champion of Europe and F.A cup champion in his first two seasons, Rafa had a bad time at the start of this season. The two defeats against liverpool hurted too much to the Liverpool fans.

All in all, the club keeps signing players at a great rythm, and has a blind confidence in Rafa. To be honest I must say that the good form in league make me to have some hopes when I look at the Barcelona draw.

30 years ago both teams also played against each other in the UEFA cup. LFC won 0-1 in Barcelona with a goal of a Welsh who I cannot remember the name of him --Toshack-- and the score in Anfield was 1-1. That thay played Rexach, Cruyff, Mora, marcial, Neeskens, Asensi... and I had the hard task of fighting against Migueli the CB --a butcher--

That year we won the UEFA cup after beating Brujas in the final. Curiously enough our first rival was Real Sociedad, it was September of 1975. It was my first time in San Sebastian and the game ended 1-3. The Boronat, Ormaetxea Martinez, Arzak were unknown to me but then I had the pleasure of knowing them better.

The first game will be in the Camp Now and I'm pretty sure that the second leg in Anfield will be one of those games that a good football supporter can't miss.

Original article in Spanish:

http://canales.diariovasco.com/realsoc....207.htm


My questions to the mates in this forum:

* Why many ex reds like Toshack and Aldo give that much stick to Rafa?

* What do you think of what he says?

If you want my opinion, I always thought TOsh had the hope of one day training LFC, and he didn't make it, so he's a bit bitter about that. I sense that because he periodically comments things about LFC since 15 years ago in the local papers, and since Rafa arrived, he never forgave ANY of his mistakes.

IMHO he's a bit harsh with Rafa.

[Mikz]

Ahh youre much too sensitive brother, Toshacks just tellin it as he sees it. I dont know much about him wanting to be Liverpool manager, but I was always thinking he could have got it around the Souness era.
If ya really wanna be off with an ex player-Ill send ya a cd of Mark Lawrenson  Now that is a limp wrist of the highest order.

[Leonmc0708]

I dont think Aldo give Rafa stick, just tells it like it is.

Sometimes people defend the manager too much, and assume he is not open for criticism, but they are.

Toshack is simply regurgitating old news with this one though.

[Sabre]

Well I'm not exactly outraged because of what he says. And I think criticism is a must. But I do think when he sees the whole picture Tosh tends to view more the negative side of Rafa.

For instance I remember how he commented in the late nineties how he disliked LFC's absence in the best european competition. But he NOW doesn't seem to appreciate that LFC is closer to the place he deserves by history, both in Europe, and the league.

As for the old news, it's normal, meaning that he's introducing to a foreign reader what's happening in Liverpool, as people here are not aware of many things.

[66-1112520797]

My questions to the mates in this forum:

* Why many ex reds like Toshack and Aldo give that much stick to Rafa?

* What do you think of what he says?

If you want my opinion, I always thought TOsh had the hope of one day training LFC, and he didn't make it, so he's a bit bitter about that. I sense that because he periodically comments things about LFC since 15 years ago in the local papers, and since Rafa arrived, he never forgave ANY of his mistakes.

IMHO he's a bit harsh with Rafa.

I havent heard much of what Aldo's supposed to of said about Rafa, but by reading that article from Toshack its clear there are more ex-reds (Lawernson) that critise Rafa far more. Infact I dont think he has said anything really out of order, and has said it how he's seen it. Fair enough really.

Christ, that word bitter has been banded around here a fair bit, did we play Everton at the weekend or something ?   Tosh, maybe a little envious of Rafa having the job he may like. But at the end of the day who is in the hotseat ?

[Big Niall]

I have nothing against anybody criticising a manager but I have seen Toshack on TV3 (Irish channel) and he never has anything good to say about LFC.

I remember when we had drawn Leverskeven (spelling?) in the last 16 match 2 years ago, he said that it was a disgrace that one of us would go through considering that Man Utd had to play AC MIlan (remember them )

Chip on his shoulder about something.

[Anfield rapper]

Toshack gives everyone stick. I remember him giving Mark Hughes stick when Hughes managed Wales even though they hadn't played so well in years. Now Toshack is in charge of Wales again they have slid back to being a very poor side.

[woof woof !]

Toshack was a top player for us but I can only echo what Big Niall and Anfield rapper have said about him .

He comes across as a miserable b'ugger , I've never heard him say a good word about Liverpool apart of course from the time when he was playing for us .

[66-1120597113]

Who gives a fu.ck about what Toshack thinks or says!
A great player in his day but thats in the past!He sounds to me like a manic depressive,i have never seen him smile or heard him say anything positive lately about anything but the Wales team and we all know they are sh.ite.

He stood on the touchline with a face to fit a funeral procession last night at Windsor park.
He said the place depressed him and complained that the changing rooms were to small..Id say the rooms may be cr@p yes...But maybe he should take a look at his effort of a team and remember that most of them come from small clubs with cr@pper stadiums and smaller changing rooms!Its a step up for a lot of them

Ex red or not he's too much to say for himself,just because he won with R Madrid it gives him no liscence to criticise Raffa!
He's a grumpy old Victor Meldrew yappy bast.ard who should be prescribed a boatload of Prozac to give him a better outlook on the world around him and put a smile on that ugly effort of a face!

Shi.tty Wales manager criticising us......What next?

[Mikz]

Bit rough there Barry. John Toshack stands accused !

Standing at Windsor park on a beautiful summers night is depressing enough , but watchin that lot in that weather in a dump - wheres the shampoo !!

That place is sooooooooo last year

[66-1120597113]

Bit rough there Barry. John Toshack stands accused !

Standing at Windsor park on a beautiful summers night is depressing enough , but watchin that lot in that weather in a dump - wheres the shampoo !!

That place is sooooooooo last year

I agree mate it aint the best like!
Does'nt give him the right to complain or criticise just because he can wa.nk over the Millenium Stadium!

Should have kept his moaning cakehole shut about Windsor and Raffa/LFC!
Hope he chokes on his leak pie!

[Rafa D]

I saw Toshack crying about 7 seats behind me during the Truth Day protest.

He's a red and thats good enough for me.

[Sabre]

He gives stick ro Rafa, but I have no doubts he's a true red. The fact that he writes often about LFC in a foreign country is because he's a red. He has trained  teams like Real Madrid but when it comes to talk about his heart, he says it's red (and of Real Sociedad in Spain). He has quoted Shankly dozens of times and spoken well about Anfield. THere's no doubt about that.

[RAGE UK]

I think we should brace ourselves for a whole lot of this now.
There is a lot of people out there in football land that know that there is a very big possibility LIVERPOOL FC are going to be the dominating force in the premiership.

Toshack makes some good points but I think there is a lot of envy there.

As for the original post some very good points there with Rafas signings I hope he uses the money wisely this time and gets good quality  and not two dozen hopefuls like has had done in the past I’m not going to go into names because it will only open a larger can of worms.

We are going to have to unload quite a lot of players in the summer and who should go and who should stay could and will be a very large post when the time comes.

And that is a shame because of Rafas rotation it has meant that some of the players like Gonzales we have not seen the best of and now I don’t think we ever will.

I personally think that Rafa should read all his criticism and learn from it I also think that he is the man that could take us to new heights.

One more point I would like to make is.
We are not just another Chelsea we have a history a very good one to and Liverpool is the most successful English team ever in the history of football. And we are the most dominating English force in Europe to
And that is the one thing Chelsea doesn’t have and will never have.
So when we win the premiership and we will and it will not be because our claim to fame is a Russian walks into our club with a big bag of dirty money.

RANT OVER HAVE A NICE DAY .

[azriahmad]

Nothing much to diss Toshack on his comments against Rafa, IMHO, as he is telling it pretty much how he sees it. Also, I detect a lot of envy for Rafa on Toshack's part.

At least his comments are not as bad as the master himself, Mark Lawrenson.