Liverpool FC Forum

[115-1073096938]

Been out on the ale tonight myself and just saw Joey Barton in Baa Bar. He looked pretty .

[tel]

I thought Pennant had a very average time when he was at Leeds. Wenger is no slouch when it comes to identifying and developing talent, but he never gave him the chance he's giving youngster's like Fabergras.

Having said that, I dont think he'd be a bad sort for us when Brum go down. But I would prefer Joe Cole. The way Moron deals with him, he wont be there long. Whether they'd let him come North is what the debate should be about.

[JC_81]

First of all, great thread, some very good posts.

As for Pennant, he's a good player no question.  He had a good game against us the other night despite some peoples' opinions and this was even more impressive considering the rubbish he was playing with.  He's been a consistent provider of goals in the prem, is good with the ball at his feet and swings in a fantastic cross.  He stands out in a poor Birmingham side.

To say however that he's better than SWP is laughable imo.  Just because the lad has been on the bench for Chelsea all season some people have forgotten how good he is.  I don't agree that Pennant 'goes past players for fun', but SWP certainly does.  His crossing ability may not be as good as Pennant's, but he draws at least 2 players to him every time he gets the ball creating space for others, this can lead to goals in a different way to what a cross can.  And SWP's ability to strike a shot is far superior to Pennant's.  He made a terrible career choice going to Chelsea where Mourinho already has his established favourites like the inferior Joe Cole imo.

Having said that, is Pennant worth a punt at 4 mil?  Of course he is.  But lets get things into perspective, he's no SWP and unless he sorts himself out, probably never will be.

[bigmick]

First of all, great thread, some very good posts.

As for Pennant, he's a good player no question.  He had a good game against us the other night despite some peoples' opinions and this was even more impressive considering the rubbish he was playing with.  He's been a consistent provider of goals in the prem, is good with the ball at his feet and swings in a fantastic cross.  He stands out in a poor Birmingham side.

To say however that he's better than SWP is laughable imo.  Just because the lad has been on the bench for Chelsea all season some people have forgotten how good he is.  I don't agree that Pennant 'goes past players for fun', but SWP certainly does.  His crossing ability may not be as good as Pennant's, but he draws at least 2 players to him every time he gets the ball creating space for others, this can lead to goals in a different way to what a cross can.  And SWP's ability to strike a shot is far superior to Pennant's.  He made a terrible career choice going to Chelsea where Mourinho already has his established favourites like the inferior Joe Cole imo.

Having said that, is Pennant worth a punt at 4 mil?  Of course he is.  But lets get things into perspective, he's no SWP and unless he sorts himself out, probably never will be.

Would just about agree with every single word of that John, good post. On the question of Wright-Phillips I'm totally with you on his ability and especially his career choice. Even though Mourinho clearly doesn't fancy him anymore, it's hard to see his pride and ego allowing the kid to leave at a price anybody else would be prepared to pay.
I think Chelsea paid 21 million for him when the price should have been nearer 12 and would have been had they not gone in. Now that he has been stuck on the bench for a year, the price should be 8-10 max but I can't see the great ego admitting he wasted 12 million on him. The net result is the young fella will probably have to stagnate for three seasons. His stepdad should definately have advised him better and his plight may serve as a warning to other promising young players of his ilk.

[JC_81]

First of all, great thread, some very good posts.

As for Pennant, he's a good player no question.  He had a good game against us the other night despite some peoples' opinions and this was even more impressive considering the rubbish he was playing with.  He's been a consistent provider of goals in the prem, is good with the ball at his feet and swings in a fantastic cross.  He stands out in a poor Birmingham side.

To say however that he's better than SWP is laughable imo.  Just because the lad has been on the bench for Chelsea all season some people have forgotten how good he is.  I don't agree that Pennant 'goes past players for fun', but SWP certainly does.  His crossing ability may not be as good as Pennant's, but he draws at least 2 players to him every time he gets the ball creating space for others, this can lead to goals in a different way to what a cross can.  And SWP's ability to strike a shot is far superior to Pennant's.  He made a terrible career choice going to Chelsea where Mourinho already has his established favourites like the inferior Joe Cole imo.

Having said that, is Pennant worth a punt at 4 mil?  Of course he is.  But lets get things into perspective, he's no SWP and unless he sorts himself out, probably never will be.

Would just about agree with every single word of that John, good post. On the question of Wright-Phillips I'm totally with you on his ability and especially his career choice. Even though Mourinho clearly doesn't fancy him anymore, it's hard to see his pride and ego allowing the kid to leave at a price anybody else would be prepared to pay.
I think Chelsea paid 21 million for him when the price should have been nearer 12 and would have been had they not gone in. Now that he has been stuck on the bench for a year, the price should be 8-10 max but I can't see the great ego admitting he wasted 12 million on him. The net result is the young fella will probably have to stagnate for three seasons. His stepdad should definately have advised him better and his plight may serve as a warning to other promising young players of his ilk.

You're right about the 'ego' Mick, he'll never sell SWP to us and probably not to anyone else.  He paid massively over the odds for SWP and 10-12 mil was definitely closer to his true value at the time.

Since Man City are on the up under Pearce, I can see SWP going back there on loan next season at some point.

[Big Niall]

Hes a good player.thats it!! A GOOD player not a great and never will be!
Being honest the only reason he gets discussed on here is bescause Stu has a thing for him!
I think it may be the fact hes a bad boy that attracts some,for me its the opposite...the guys more interested in going out,fighting and getting wrecked than playing football!!

This behaviour maybe can be excused in footballers when they have the ability to overide their shi.tty side!
Jermaine Pennant does not!
Right now i rate him as a wanabee star with a reckless ghetto style attitude....Being cool and appealing to the next trampy fu.cker that wants to be snoop from the street and a gangsta seems more important than playin football!
But i guess the £15k a week may be more important!

Hes a fuc.kin looser and thats it...He has been given a gift of a future but he is to thick to see that!!
If i was 16 and dragged off the streets to play football for money i would have grasped it and made it happen!!Not Pennant hes an imbred looser!!

Never should such a grace LFC and thankfully under Raffa he never will!!!

Great post Barry - I love the Snoop wannabee reference and agree 100%

[BOODIDDY]

pennant is no better than little davie thompson was. He dribbles with no end product and always comes back to beat them again. Its no surprise he is no way near england squad. He isnt good enough. Lets not go down the road he is a struggling brum team. Crouch and beattie made it to england squad in a poor southampton squad.

Wenger didnt rate him, hes trouble, frankly a POOR FOOTBALLER.

[JC_81]

pennant is no better than little davie thompson was. He dribbles with no end product and always comes back to beat them again. Its no surprise he is no way near england squad. He isnt good enough. Lets not go down the road he is a struggling brum team. Crouch and beattie made it to england squad in a poor southampton squad.

Wenger didnt rate him, hes trouble, frankly a POOR FOOTBALLER.

Bollox mate

Thought you said in the Sissoko thread that 'you know what it takes [for a player] to succeed'.

Then you claim Pennant has no end product and is a poor footballer despite him being one of the best crossers in the Premiership

Taxi for BOODIDDY

[RedorDead]

Pennant's name gets mentioned on this forum as much anyone's and it is with good reason. For starters we are in the hunt for a right winger and have been for some time and he is clearly a talented young footballer. However for me personally I really do not want to see him join us.
At £3 million he might be worth a punt but while you would be buying talent you'd also be buying a ticking time bomb.
The kid has no idea what a gift he has been given and just cannot seem to avoid trouble. He hits the front pages as often as the back and players like that can seriously disrupt a squad. Look at the Geordies with Bowyer and Dyer, they are top top players but have the same attitude as Pennant and have never fulfilled their potential and do as much harm to a squad as good.
Our squad is a very unified unit, there is a real spirit here and the likes of Pennant would simply not fit in in my opinion.
Further to that I also agree strongly with comments that SWP is better than pennant. SWP is undoubtably a better and more dangerous winger than Pennant, he made a terrible choice to go to Chelsea and will suffer because of that £21 million price tag for some time. Not only does it mean they won't sell him for a reasonable price but he will never live up to it, he was never worth that price so even if he does perform OK on the odd occasion he playes he will always be viewed as a flop, I really feel sorry for the lad.
Of all the right wingers that we are linked with I would most like to see Joaquim, I know he would cost a lot and this may mean it is just a non starter but I rate hi mso highly and with our Spanish roots he would fit right in, the summer will certainly be an interesting one.

[BOODIDDY]

john craig if the boy was class do you think he would be at birmingham? The answer is no. Wenger didnt rate him, hes petulent, greedy and where do you come from saying hes the best crosser of a ball in the prem? Bollox u moron, if that was the case im sure birmingham would have more goals which in turn would mean more points. Dont come back with carling opta stats cos they mean rock all in the real game.

He is and im thankful that rafa has no interest in signing this dud.
Let in sign for blue or a team like villa or blackburn. We want class not run of the mill prem footballers

[JC_81]

john craig if the boy was class do you think he would be at birmingham? The answer is no. Wenger didnt rate him, hes petulent, greedy and where do you come from saying hes the best crosser of a ball in the prem? Bollox u moron, if that was the case im sure birmingham would have more goals which in turn would mean more points. Dont come back with carling opta stats cos they mean rock all in the real game.

He is and im thankful that rafa has no interest in signing this dud.
Let in sign for blue or a team like villa or blackburn. We want class not run of the mill prem footballers

You should take up comedy BOODIDDY with posts like this

Pennant isn't class because he's at Birmingham?  By that rationale does a player have to be at a big club to be 'class'?  You're the one talking nonsense mate.

And learn to read, I said Pennant was 'ONE OF' the best crossers in the premiership (which I'm sure about 90% of this forum would agree on), not 'THE BEST' crosser in the premiership.

And what opta stats did I use?  Enlighten me...

But you must be right, I'm the moron

[BOODIDDY]

thank god we dont have your judgement on players. Oh by the way Nicky hunt is one of the best right backs in the prem. Purely because he plays in the prem. So yeah your right pennant is one of the best crossers of a ball inthe prem, purely because he plays. A player doesn't have to be at a big club to be any good but the point being that pennant isnt very good at birmingham. Dunn when fit is much better. Jarosiks performances for them are better than pennants. Ill let this lay now cos im sick and tired of having to read these pennant for liverpool threads.

[48-1119859832]

BOODIDDY,

I'd think you'd find that Steve Finnan is the best right back in the Premiership. I agree with John Graig that Pennant is probably one of the best crossers of the ball in the league at the moment. You should sit down and watch the lad sometime becoz his crossing ability is nothing short of class. And to say Pennant isn't any good in the Birmingham squad has just made me wet myself with sheer laughther. Pennant was the only player that looked good in the Brummie squad we thrashed 7-0.

And why are you comparing Jarosik & Dunn to Pennant? I dunno what you're trying to show by doing that but if you're talking about importance then they are all as important as each other. If you mean crossing ability then you're just on the wind up, therefore I suggest you reel your fishing rod back in.

I take it you want someone like SWP or Joaquin? I'd hate to burst your ever looming bubble but I can't see us signing either SWP or Joaquin & after SWP's antics against Newcy the other nite, I don't want him.

For me it would either be Joaquin (massive price, massive gamble) - Wayne Routledge (After this whole Defoe fiasco I can't see them selling him to us) or Jermaine Pennant (Houses a great cross of the ball just what the likes of Crouch & Moro need, wouldn't cost much - however his off the pitch antics are disgraceful)

Now putting Jermaine's off the pitch antics to one side and focusing purely on his footballing ability, are you really going to say that he's poor? I'd take him like a shot despite his off the pitch record & I firmly believe that Benitez could sort Pennant's behaviour out!.

[Cool Hand Luke]

Some really interesting points. Luke you're research is impressive and definately backs up your point well. My suspicion is that Ljundberg would definately also have beaten your 3.8 ratio on a couple of occasions. Beckham in his prime may have also, while our own Luis Garcia can't have been far off last season, in all comps anyhow.
Clearly though, Kewell would be nowhere near it and most fans seem reasonably happy with his contribution these days. Wright-Phillips would get nowhere near it, nor Duff, Stuart Downing and the rest. I do take your point though that wide midfielders must contribute to the scoring, similarly you could have added into your critique on central defenders that these days at least one of them is expected to chip in with a goal or two. Times have definately changed.
I think ultimately this all boils down to the age old winger/wide midfielder argument. My feeling has always been that in a modern, combative football unit you require the latter over the former. Currently, Pennant is an out and out winger from what I can see, hugging the toughline and attempting to ping in a cross around the outstretched leg of the full-back. He is there to provide width, to stretch the play and open up the channels for Heskey and Forssell to work into. He doesn't to me look like the sort of player who attacks the back post when a cross comes in from the left, nor does he come inside and recieve the ball on the edge of the centre circle ever, opening up the possibility of a run and shot. He does though strike a decent free-kick so you would think that he probably has a goal or two in him.
All in all I think he would need to improve to become a first-team player of distiction. I am fairly sure he has it in him though, the gamble would certainly be more on his mentality than on his ability. One things certain, if Brum do go down then someone will take a chance on his errant temperament. At this time next season, the 4 million or whatever it is they will pay may well look cheap in my view.

In terms of the players you mentioned:

Kewell: Despite the fact that he has clearly improved, I think his form has been exaggerated, he is doing a good job but I don’t think he will reach a level were he is good enough to command a first team spot at a club that has ambitions to win the Premiership. He has lost the pace and mobility that made him so dangerous, the other parts of his game while not terrible are not good enough to make him a top player. Sooner or later he will be replaced in the first team, he only has 2 years left on his contract after this one, that is the absolute maximum I can see him staying.

Wright-Phillips: Maybe this is why he is struggling at Chelsea

Duff: Maybe this is why he has found himself behind Joe Cole and Robben.

Neither of these players have exactly shined when put on to a higher stage, done well at lesser clubs (interesting enough, both managed to break the 3.8 ration while at their previous clubs), but have struggled to forge a first team place at a big club.

Downing: To be fair he has only had 1 real season, and would we expect him to be a top player in his first season in the Premiership.

-I definitely agree that old style winders are now becoming more and more obsolete at the highest level, that why I try and say wide midfielder.

-Pennant would need to improve his game in the areas I mentioned if he is to play at a top club, apart from that I think he is excellent. But these things should have been addressed some time ago.

[Garymac]

I love the way some people on here buy into the Media Portrayal of Pennant, he makes a mistake and they are out to get him every chance they get, by no means hes not the most well behaved player but hes a fu*king angel compared to Diouf.

And to answer the question about if Pennant is such a good crosser why dont they score more goals.......LOOK WHO HE IS CROSSING TO, forsell, the most injury prone striker ever, and Heskey FFS, and we all know how good he is!