Liverpool FC Forum

[stmichael]

The reasonably accepted view is that you don't change your defence too much. So in the first game we picked up injuries to (if I recall) Riise and Carragher.

This meant having to bring Aurelio in way too early. It also meant that in the Sheffield United game, for example, there was no scope to change the attacking options which were clearly not working 100% because the two defensive injuries only allowed one positive change.

Combine this with the fact that players were knackered from the world cup (Gerrard recently admitting this about himself, and it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume the same about Alonso and others).

If we don't go overboard and sign a gazillion new players (which some on here would seem to advocate) such that we can start with a fairly settled squad, then rotation will not make one jot of difference to the start of the season. It will make a huge difference at the end of it though.

What we need is a squad that is largely familiar with each other and the demands of the coaching staff. We have that and if it is augmented by two or three new signings (possibly with additional youngsters to strengthen the reserves if needed) then I think we will start the season well. An example of this can be seen with Mascherano. The squad (not the team) is fairly settled now and it means we have been able to bed in a new signing with reasonable ease.

Rotation is as much of a red herring as zonal marking is, I believe.

[woof woof !]

Secondly, you're right I'm not a "fan". I'm a supporter. A realistic one at that. Not some southern jumped up self proclaimed funny man who's never been to a game in his life. Not only am I a supporter, but I've played, coached and developed an understanding of the game.

For christs sake change the f'ucking record . Every time your opinion is challenged out comes the "I've played , I've coached , don't talk to me i know more than you blah blah blah "

Why do you even bother entering a footy forum ? Surely judging by your attitude you know it all , why waste time with people that obviously don't have a clue lad ?

I'm surprised given what you've achieved you elect to spend your time educating the likes of us . You should be employed in a professional capacity at some premier league outfit . 

   

Oh started on a member of the clique have I so they all have to have a go? Go on then... look forward to hearing it.

C'ock a fookin' doodle do ,

Apologies , I forgot just how much we can learn from you .

eg.Lesson One .

How to publicly make an a'rse of yourself

Stu..........

Yes another embarrassing performance with rediculous subsitutions.

Gerard Houllier mark II.

Fed up with this. Rafa has one more season as far as I'm concerned.

comimg from someone who defended Houllier to the death , thats a gem .

[JBG]

Link to that comment Woof?

I don't understand how Stu can slate Rafa - who won us the Champions League and may well do it again this season - yet wish AIDS on those people who celebrated when Houllier was sacked.

[Stu.Murph]

In response to Stu's point about quality defenders there is no arguement that three or four of the world's top defenders play in the Premiership. I'd even go so far and point out that the world's best central defender - Cannavaro - and the world's best full back - Zambrotta - who both play in La Liga, have had absolutely shocking seasons (by their high standards) in Spain.

However, quality defending has never been just about quality individuals alone. Quality defending is about the entire team defending well as a unit. For example, you might have a player of John Terry's ability and quality at the back but you don't see Chelsea putting 8 players in the opposition's half for 90% of the game and relying on Terry being a one man band who's expected to mop up all of the opposition's attacks. No, instead you have got one of the world's best centre halves in Calvalho beside him, one of the two best goalkeepers in the world behind him (Cech), some of the world's best fullbacks (albeit at the moment on paper, not on form) either side of him and two of the world's best defensive midfielders - Makelele and Essien - in front of him. On top of that, Didier Drogba is currently one of the hardest working centre forwards in the world and helps his team out defensively better than any other top class forward out there.

Chelsea are not one of the world's best defensive teams because of Terry alone but because the entire team is set up properly to go out and defend.

In England only Chelsea and Liverpool are exceptional defensively.

Man UTD have a good defensive record in recent seasons but they cannot close out European games like Chelsea and Liverpool do. Man UTD have always leaked goals in Europe under Ferguson and are a small bit like Real Madrid and Barcelona in that they rely on their prodigous attacking play to do well in Europe. Take Arsenal's run to the CL final last year away and they are just an average European side.

Look down from the top four sides in England and the standard of defending by Premiership teams, both at home and in Europe, ranges from slightly below average to being quiet poor (relatively speaking). This has been borne out time and time again by the performances of English sides in the UEFA cup when they are more often than not outsmarted by clubs with far far smaller budgets.

This debate is going off track: its not really about whether English teams are defensively poor, its about Stu's comment that Rafa's achievements in Spain should be taken with a grain of salt as they were achieved - in Stu's words - in a league which is defensively poor or inferior to that of England's, which is simply not true and betrays a limited knowledge of the Spanish and indeed general European game.

As for coaching, Stu, are you really Steve McClaren in disguise?

Yer avin a laugh aren't ya mate? You think i'd pick Lampard, Hargreaves, Terry, Crouch, Johnson, Carrick, Jenas, Lennon, Wright-Phillips or any of the other jokers I've seen in an england shirt over the last few years?

To be fair if I was McLaren I would play those players and I wouldn't play Steven Gerrard, Jamie Carragher or any other Liverpool play either... I wouldn't pick an england team on form or ability, i'd pick it on the best best players i thought would lose me the match.

[woof woof !]

Link to that comment Woof?

I don't understand how Stu can slate Rafa - who won us the Champions League and may well do it again this season - yet wish AIDS on those people who celebrated when Houllier was sacked.

You heard it here folks

[Stu.Murph]

Secondly, you're right I'm not a "fan". I'm a supporter. A realistic one at that. Not some southern jumped up self proclaimed funny man who's never been to a game in his life. Not only am I a supporter, but I've played, coached and developed an understanding of the game.

For christs sake change the f'ucking record . Every time your opinion is challenged out comes the "I've played , I've coached , don't talk to me i know more than you blah blah blah "

Why do you even bother entering a footy forum ? Surely judging by your attitude you know it all , why waste time with people that obviously don't have a clue lad ?

I'm surprised given what you've achieved you elect to spend your time educating the likes of us . You should be employed in a professional capacity at some premier league outfit . 

   

Oh started on a member of the clique have I so they all have to have a go? Go on then... look forward to hearing it.

C'ock a fookin' doodle do ,

Apologies , I forgot just how much we can learn from you .

eg.Lesson One .

How to publicly make an a'rse of yourself

Stu..........

Yes another embarrassing performance with rediculous subsitutions.

Gerard Houllier mark II.

Fed up with this. Rafa has one more season as far as I'm concerned.

comimg from someone who defended Houllier to the death , thats a gem .

You're correct. I didn't like or respect the unwarrented abuse Houllier got and he deserved to be defended. He gave his all just as Rafa is doing.

I don't like or respect the unwarrented praise Rafa gets for largely having a very similar record and giving what Houllier gave to us.

Houllier also regularly beat the Mancs and Blueshite...

Rafa hasn't.

The fact is I'm a realist and I don't respect anything other than realistic views and with Gerard and Rafa, the views are unbelievabley contradicting for two managers who so far have had pretty similar Liverpool careers. The facts speak for themselves.

[Stu.Murph]

Edited

[woof woof !]

Secondly, you're right I'm not a "fan". I'm a supporter. A realistic one at that. Not some southern jumped up self proclaimed funny man who's never been to a game in his life. Not only am I a supporter, but I've played, coached and developed an understanding of the game.

For christs sake change the f'ucking record . Every time your opinion is challenged out comes the "I've played , I've coached , don't talk to me i know more than you blah blah blah "

Why do you even bother entering a footy forum ? Surely judging by your attitude you know it all , why waste time with people that obviously don't have a clue lad ?

I'm surprised given what you've achieved you elect to spend your time educating the likes of us . You should be employed in a professional capacity at some premier league outfit . 

   

Oh started on a member of the clique have I so they all have to have a go? Go on then... look forward to hearing it.

C'ock a fookin' doodle do ,

Apologies , I forgot just how much we can learn from you .

eg.Lesson One .

How to publicly make an a'rse of yourself

Stu..........

Yes another embarrassing performance with rediculous subsitutions.

Gerard Houllier mark II.

Fed up with this. Rafa has one more season as far as I'm concerned.

comimg from someone who defended Houllier to the death , thats a gem .

You're correct. I didn't like or respect the unwarrented abuse Houllier got and he deserved to be defended. He gave his all just as Rafa is doing.

I don't like or respect the unwarrented praise Rafa gets for largely having a very similar record and giving what Houllier gave to us.

Houllier also regularly beat the Mancs and Blueshite...

Rafa hasn't.

The fact is I'm a realist and I don't respect anything other than realistic views and with Gerard and Rafa, the views are unbelievabley contradicting for two managers who so far have had pretty similar Liverpool careers. The facts speak for themselves.

Let me read that again .

The fact is I'm a realist and I don't respect anything other than realistic views and with Gerard and Rafa, the views are unbelievabley contradicting for two managers who so far have had pretty similar Liverpool careers. The facts speak for themselves.

Damn , if only their careers had been on a par with yours Stu , who knows what we might have achieved .

[Stu.Murph]

Secondly, you're right I'm not a "fan". I'm a supporter. A realistic one at that. Not some southern jumped up self proclaimed funny man who's never been to a game in his life. Not only am I a supporter, but I've played, coached and developed an understanding of the game.

For christs sake change the f'ucking record . Every time your opinion is challenged out comes the "I've played , I've coached , don't talk to me i know more than you blah blah blah "

Why do you even bother entering a footy forum ? Surely judging by your attitude you know it all , why waste time with people that obviously don't have a clue lad ?

I'm surprised given what you've achieved you elect to spend your time educating the likes of us . You should be employed in a professional capacity at some premier league outfit . 

   

Oh started on a member of the clique have I so they all have to have a go? Go on then... look forward to hearing it.

C'ock a fookin' doodle do ,

Apologies , I forgot just how much we can learn from you .

eg.Lesson One .

How to publicly make an a'rse of yourself

Stu..........

Yes another embarrassing performance with rediculous subsitutions.

Gerard Houllier mark II.

Fed up with this. Rafa has one more season as far as I'm concerned.

comimg from someone who defended Houllier to the death , thats a gem .

You couldn't debate anything to save your life. You make mocking suggestions and twist things rediculously without being able to understand a balanced arguement. Also, since when have you posted anythin on football? Or is it just because I had a pop at Dawson?

Houllier was released at the right time. Under Rafa we had a poor season that was disguised by us winning the champions league. We then had a good solid season of improvement. We've now, after some bad signings taken more than one step backwards.

Another season like this season and more bad signings this season will pretty much make Benitez reign equal to that of Houllier's, yet Benitez is deemed some sort of god...

Winning the champions league was the most amazing two days ever in my history as a supporter of this club, something I will never forget and always be immensely greatful for but the fact is that win has clouded so many people's judgements its unreal. Rafa is never wrong I'm told in one thread, in rafa we trust in the other... while on the other hand I go out an see him sign Gonzalez and Sissoko who can't even trap a basic pass.

Under Houllier i've seen it before, the false expectation, the false "getting there" signals and this time under Benitez, as a real supporter and as someone who cares about the club and the city I believe its my right "especially the amount of hard earnt money i spend on the club" to voice my opinion.

[Stu.Murph]

Point proven.

[neil]

stu is a bluenose

[woof woof !]

You couldn't debate anything to save your life. You make mocking suggestions and twist things rediculously without being able to understand a balanced arguement. Also, since when have you posted anythin on football? Or is it just because I had a pop at Dawson?

No Stu , it's not because you had a pop at Dawson , it's because you have a pop at EVERYBODY and I for one am Fu*king sick of it .

You been banned so many times that even the mods have lost count , and yet somehow here you are , still giving it the old condescending "get a clue lad" attitude .

As for "You couldn't debate anything to save your life" , right now I'm debating what an overbearing only child or runt of the litter you are , and guess what , I think i'm doing OK .   

[Stu.Murph]

You couldn't debate anything to save your life. You make mocking suggestions and twist things rediculously without being able to understand a balanced arguement. Also, since when have you posted anythin on football? Or is it just because I had a pop at Dawson?

No Stu , it's not because you had a pop at Dawson , it's because you have a pop at EVERYBODY and I for one am Fu*king sick of it .

You been banned so many times that even the mods have lost count , and yet somehow here you are , still giving it the old condescending "get a clue lad" attitude .

As for "You couldn't debate anything to save your life" , right now I'm debating what an overbearing only child or runt of the litter you are , and guess what , I think i'm doing OK .   

You can't have a go at anyone for their behavior. Especially after spitting your dummy out the other week. You might want to look at yourself before you have a go at others.

[JBG]

Stu, you appear to be suffering from some brain palsy. You've reverted to type by rounding on everybody and anybody who stands in your firing line and then wonder why you're starting to get flak back? Get a clue, lad, seriously. There's no reason why you cannot post here on a regular basis and get your point across and stick to your principles without all the other cr.ap that goes with it. It was boring three years ago and its f.ookin' borin' now.

[woof woof !]

You couldn't debate anything to save your life. You make mocking suggestions and twist things rediculously without being able to understand a balanced arguement. Also, since when have you posted anythin on football? Or is it just because I had a pop at Dawson?

No Stu , it's not because you had a pop at Dawson , it's because you have a pop at EVERYBODY and I for one am Fu*king sick of it .

You been banned so many times that even the mods have lost count , and yet somehow here you are , still giving it the old condescending "get a clue lad" attitude .

As for "You couldn't debate anything to save your life" , right now I'm debating what an overbearing only child or runt of the litter you are , and guess what , I think i'm doing OK .   

You can't have a go at anyone for their behavior. Especially after spitting your dummy out the other week. You might want to look at yourself before you have a go at others.

Stu.Murph Online
LFC Advanced Member

Group: LFC Members
Posts: 205
Joined: Mar. 2007
Posted: April 07 2007,07:22

If ya gonna av a go at someone lad, av a go at me.

F'ucks sake lad , make up your mind.