Liverpool FC Forum

[Stu.Murph]

spewart getting angry? can tell by all the smiley faces.
I like how u miss out the finnan Vs Neville bit as well (maybe because, shock horror, spewart is wrong!!!)... aww bless u spewwy

anyways, lets argue in pms if u have to, on here we were on about spanish defenders right? What are your views on Merchana?

So players ability changes from season to season does it?

A players who's quick one season might be slow the next...

You're telling me maybe the 8th/9th best player at LFC is better than the team who's top of the league's captain?

Carry on.

Keep going.

[Fowler_E7]

Over there the standard of defending is very average in comparrison to over here.

Where does this myth come from?

Out of the top three leagues defending in England is a distant third to Spain and Italy. This has been borne out time and again over the past 15 years by the performance of English sides in Europe.

As you yourself are want to say, Stu, end of. 

If thats the case why are the english sides once again starting to dominate European opposition. with the exception of Cannavaro, Zambrotta and Puyol name me some top defenders in Spain JBG.

I'm sorry, but theres just aren't teams as good defensively as individuals anywhere like there is here. Also the standard of english goalkeeping in general is ALOT higher.

I would say in England there are probably better individual defenders, but tactically spanish teams are certainly better organised defensively than most English teams. The defending of the teams in bottom half in the Premiership is worse than the Spanish equivalents IMO, though you are certainly right about the goalkeepers, most goalkeepers in la liga are very average.

I would say the top 4 teams in England are very strong and a match for most teams in world football but the rest are pretty average IMO. Where as in Spain i reckon most of there top ten teams would batter the likes of Everton, Bolton, Newcastle and Blackburn who are considered decent teams in are league.

I disagree with you saying there teams would batter ours. I think over a longer period of games they'd get a good trouncing if i'm honest.

But over two legs, I agree tactically the "average" is better but the standards of individuals certainly isn't. Not even close.

Beyond Puyol, Cannavaro and Zambrotta I'm struggling to think of any top class defenders in the spanish league.

Ayala at Valencia is a very good defender and has been for many years, he is easily as good as say Carragher or Terry, they have a few good Argentine defenders in La Liga. But it is true there are not many great individual Defenders over there compared to the prem, but tactically most teams are still ahead, there better organised than your average Premiership defence. 

Also most La Liga teams have a defenders who are fairly comfortable on the ball, where as in the premiership only a few teams will have a player who can come out the back with the ball, most teams accomodate defenders that are tall,strong and more suited to dealing with crosses in the box, and clearing it quickly.

[dawson99]

spewart getting angry? can tell by all the smiley faces.
I like how u miss out the finnan Vs Neville bit as well (maybe because, shock horror, spewart is wrong!!!)... aww bless u spewwy

anyways, lets argue in pms if u have to, on here we were on about spanish defenders right? What are your views on Merchana?

So players ability changes from season to season does it?

A players who's quick one season might be slow the next...

You're telling me maybe the 8th/9th best player at LFC is better than the team who's top of the league's captain?

Carry on.

Keep going.

yes, ability is not a constant, sometimes people do just 'lose it' whatever it is. passion adds to ability, so does desire. Scholes does not have the same abilities he had in previous seasons, apart from the ability to get booked for late tackles

Spewart, you have to learn that words dont just mean the dictionary term, there is more to it.

So you think Neville is a better defender than Finnan this season, fair play to you.
You think Kalou is better than Kuyt, thats ok.
You say Carrick is better than alonso and masherano and momo, thats your choice.

ANYWAY, WHAT ABOUT MERCHANA? or are you time wasting while u look him up. then u can spew out some more pointless points spewwy

[Stu.Murph]

Over there the standard of defending is very average in comparrison to over here.

Where does this myth come from?

Out of the top three leagues defending in England is a distant third to Spain and Italy. This has been borne out time and again over the past 15 years by the performance of English sides in Europe.

As you yourself are want to say, Stu, end of. 

If thats the case why are the english sides once again starting to dominate European opposition. with the exception of Cannavaro, Zambrotta and Puyol name me some top defenders in Spain JBG.

I'm sorry, but theres just aren't teams as good defensively as individuals anywhere like there is here. Also the standard of english goalkeeping in general is ALOT higher.

I would say in England there are probably better individual defenders, but tactically spanish teams are certainly better organised defensively than most English teams. The defending of the teams in bottom half in the Premiership is worse than the Spanish equivalents IMO, though you are certainly right about the goalkeepers, most goalkeepers in la liga are very average.

I would say the top 4 teams in England are very strong and a match for most teams in world football but the rest are pretty average IMO. Where as in Spain i reckon most of there top ten teams would batter the likes of Everton, Bolton, Newcastle and Blackburn who are considered decent teams in are league.

I disagree with you saying there teams would batter ours. I think over a longer period of games they'd get a good trouncing if i'm honest.

But over two legs, I agree tactically the "average" is better but the standards of individuals certainly isn't. Not even close.

Beyond Puyol, Cannavaro and Zambrotta I'm struggling to think of any top class defenders in the spanish league.

Ayala at Valencia is a very good defender and has been for many years, he is easily as good as say Carragher or Terry, they have a few good Argentine defenders in La Liga. But it is true there are not many great individual Defenders over there compared to the prem, but tactically most teams are still ahead, there better organised than your average Premiership defence. 

Also most La Liga teams have a defenders who are fairly comfortable on the ball, where as in the premiership only a few teams will have a player who can come out the back with the ball, most teams accomodate defenders that are tall,strong and more suited to dealing with crosses in the box, and clearing it quickly.

Forgot about Ayala.

[Stu.Murph]

spewart getting angry? can tell by all the smiley faces.
I like how u miss out the finnan Vs Neville bit as well (maybe because, shock horror, spewart is wrong!!!)... aww bless u spewwy

anyways, lets argue in pms if u have to, on here we were on about spanish defenders right? What are your views on Merchana?

So players ability changes from season to season does it?

A players who's quick one season might be slow the next...

You're telling me maybe the 8th/9th best player at LFC is better than the team who's top of the league's captain?

Carry on.

Keep going.

yes, ability is not a constant, sometimes people do just 'lose it' whatever it is. passion adds to ability, so does desire. Scholes does not have the same abilities he had in previous seasons, apart from the ability to get booked for late tackles

Spewart, you have to learn that words dont just mean the dictionary term, there is more to it.

So you think Neville is a better defender than Finnan this season, fair play to you.
You think Kalou is better than Kuyt, thats ok.
You say Carrick is better than alonso and masherano and momo, thats your choice.

ANYWAY, WHAT ABOUT MERCHANA? or are you time wasting while u look him up. then u can spew out some more pointless points spewwy

Right everyone who reads the thread can see I never even once mentioned Carrick...

You then bang on about "MERCHANA"? Do you mean the distinctly average center half who plays for Valencia called MARCHENA by any chance?

I take it back, you're pure comedy.

[dawson99]

stu, u took all that time to look up the guy. (so obvious mate you were googling him to find out more) i spelled his name wrong!!! horrors, ban me ban me. and i happen to rate him as a defender, but i dont watch as much football as you in your coaching role...but i do have a life spewwy

No, u said that only 2 or 3 of our players would get into manure or cheatski, im disagreeing, as there massive midfield signing would not get into our team, nor would a fair few others.

now go back to kissing nevilles a$$.

[tubby]

Merchana lol Thats a funny name

[Stu.Murph]

stu, u took all that time to look up the guy. (so obvious mate you were googling him to find out more) i spelled his name wrong!!! horrors, ban me ban me. and i happen to rate him as a defender, but i dont watch as much football as you in your coaching role...but i do have a life spewwy

No, u said that only 2 or 3 of our players would get into manure or cheatski, im disagreeing, as there massive midfield signing would not get into our team, nor would a fair few others.

now go back to kissing nevilles a$$.

I googled him?

I'm reckoning by the fact you "rate" him you're the one who googles him lad. "Ohh look, he plays centre half for Valencia he must be good, I'll name drop"... 

My guess is if you ask Sabre he'll tell you he's not that good. Not a bad player, but no outstanding and wouldn't get anywhere near the English National team (nationallity permitting obviously).

Had you said Ayala, that would have been a shout, but you didn't.

You also bang on about our players...

I'll do two possible elevens...

Drogba and Rooney
Robben Scholes Gerrard Ronaldo
Cole Terry Ferdinand Neville
Cech

Now the debatable players for me are Alonso in for Robben with Alonso in the middle Gerrard on the right Ronaldo on the left.

Evra/Heinze at left back. Carragher/Vidic/Carvalho in for Terry.

Thats not even counting Gallas, Toure, Fabregas, Rosicky, Henry or van Persie from Arsenal...

[dawson99]

Spew, your problem, and this is the last i will say on the subject, is you have no soul. Football i will say again is about much more than whats on paper. You will never understand that, and u r boring. Carra is a better defender than rio and terry if u ask me. finann is  abetter right back. Scholes is no better in the centre of midfield. hes too slow, he cant tackle, his passing is geetting eratic. Robben has no desire for the game.

these are things u will never understanmd, which is why u never made it as a player or a coach.

[Stu.Murph]

Spew, your problem, and this is the last i will say on the subject, is you have no soul. Football i will say again is about much more than whats on paper. You will never understand that, and u r boring. Carra is a better defender than rio and terry if u ask me. finann is  abetter right back. Scholes is no better in the centre of midfield. hes too slow, he cant tackle, his passing is geetting eratic. Robben has no desire for the game.

these are things u will never understanmd, which is why u never made it as a player or a coach.

No mate, the reason I never made it as a player was due to breaking my ankle when I was 16 going on 17 years old and learning to fine tune certain parts of my game, losing a bit of confidence and a yard of pace, which incidently, I've never really recovered from.

As for coaching... funny I never made it... but still get paid for it and coach one of the best youth sides in the country who incidently, our captain and one of the best players in the world originated from...

Dawson, with each and every post you're discrediting yourself more and more. I don't even have to do it for you. People are laughing at the pathetic nature of your posts. Keep it up... don't stop...

[dawson99]

Spew, your problem, and this is the last i will say on the subject, is you have no soul. Football i will say again is about much more than whats on paper. You will never understand that, and u r boring. Carra is a better defender than rio and terry if u ask me. finann is  abetter right back. Scholes is no better in the centre of midfield. hes too slow, he cant tackle, his passing is geetting eratic. Robben has no desire for the game.

these are things u will never understanmd, which is why u never made it as a player or a coach.

No mate, the reason I never made it as a player was due to breaking my ankle when I was 16 going on 17 years old and learning to fine tune certain parts of my game, losing a bit of confidence and a yard of pace, which incidently, I've never really recovered from.

As for coaching... funny I never made it... but still get paid for it and coach one of the best youth sides in the country who incidently, our captain and one of the best players in the world originated from...

Dawson, with each and every post you're discrediting yourself more and more. I don't even have to do it for you. People are laughing at the pathetic nature of your posts. Keep it up... don't stop...

more moaning whilst refusing to admit wrong about anything. yawn spewart.

and trust me, its not me that people are laughing at

"i like stu but he does complain a lot"
"stu should be banned"
"stu talks a good game but never admits fault"

the list goes on. why u r not banned i will never know.

yes, u do know a lot about football, but u also get a fair bit wrong, as do we all. difference is, we admit it. u just say "im a coach, i hurt my ankle, wah wah wah"

bye spewart, have fun, now if u wanna reply about football in a civilised manner do it here, to do your smileys and pretend to try to make me look silly, pm me dude.

thanks all

[Stu.Murph]

Oh right so you'd like to go back to being civilised now?

[neil]

rafa is very maticulous in his approach to playing the glamour domestic teams aswell as all champions league opponents, i believe his approach to the lesser domestic teams is less so and as a result we have had our fair share of slipups on the road. Next year will be rafas 4th term inthe prem, thats 3 years of experiencing what wigan bolton portsmouth everton etc have to offer. I hope they will be able to spring no more surprises and if we couple this with the momentum we are gaining with our games against man u arsenal and chelsea we could possibly witness the titles long awaited return. Good day gentlemen.

[tubby]

Stu, Dawson and 7 Kewell, this is going to go on forever. Lets all be civilised shall we.

[JBG]

In response to Stu's point about quality defenders there is no arguement that three or four of the world's top defenders play in the Premiership. I'd even go so far and point out that the world's best central defender - Cannavaro - and the world's best full back - Zambrotta - who both play in La Liga, have had absolutely shocking seasons (by their high standards) in Spain.

However, quality defending has never been just about quality individuals alone. Quality defending is about the entire team defending well as a unit. For example, you might have a player of John Terry's ability and quality at the back but you don't see Chelsea putting 8 players in the opposition's half for 90% of the game and relying on Terry being a one man band who's expected to mop up all of the opposition's attacks. No, instead you have got one of the world's best centre halves in Calvalho beside him, one of the two best goalkeepers in the world behind him (Cech), some of the world's best fullbacks (albeit at the moment on paper, not on form) either side of him and two of the world's best defensive midfielders - Makelele and Essien - in front of him. On top of that, Didier Drogba is currently one of the hardest working centre forwards in the world and helps his team out defensively better than any other top class forward out there.

Chelsea are not one of the world's best defensive teams because of Terry alone but because the entire team is set up properly to go out and defend.

In England only Chelsea and Liverpool are exceptional defensively.

Man UTD have a good defensive record in recent seasons but they cannot close out European games like Chelsea and Liverpool do. Man UTD have always leaked goals in Europe under Ferguson and are a small bit like Real Madrid and Barcelona in that they rely on their prodigous attacking play to do well in Europe. Take Arsenal's run to the CL final last year away and they are just an average European side.

Look down from the top four sides in England and the standard of defending by Premiership teams, both at home and in Europe, ranges from slightly below average to being quiet poor (relatively speaking). This has been borne out time and time again by the performances of English sides in the UEFA cup when they are more often than not outsmarted by clubs with far far smaller budgets.

This debate is going off track: its not really about whether English teams are defensively poor, its about Stu's comment that Rafa's achievements in Spain should be taken with a grain of salt as they were achieved - in Stu's words - in a league which is defensively poor or inferior to that of England's, which is simply not true and betrays a limited knowledge of the Spanish and indeed general European game.

As for coaching, Stu, are you really Steve McClaren in disguise?