Liverpool FC Forum

[JBG]

Yup. Also we tend to speak of "Spanish football" and "English football" as something static, something that doesn't change, very cliche.

Precisely.

English football has become more sophisticated in recent seasons. It is becoming more continental in style.

This can be borne out in simply looking at statistics, amongst other things. There are less goals scored per average game than there was two or three seasons ago. I remember reading an article in a paper a few weeks ago which stated that the Premiership had less goals per game than Italy and Spain this season.

Also, if you watch Premiership games in the mid to late 1990s and compare it to Premiership games today you will see a lot of differences. Players are more athletic nowadays than they were 10 years ago, there is more emphasis on pace and most significantly, teams are defending better than they did with more of an emphasis on sides having a defensive midfielder sheltering the back four. Nobody had such a midfielder ten years ago: the closest was Arsenal who had Manu Petit but he was playing far further forward than the likes of Alonso, Makele, Carrick etc do now.

Sabre is correct about Spanish football evolving. I have noticed an increased physicality and workrate amongst Spanish sides over the past 6 or 7 years.

[Sabre]

You can look at the stats and you can look at players.

Arbeloa was nobody in Spain. Typical good player of Real Madrid B, that won't reach the first team never. Few experience in La Liga, then joins deportivo where's decent. Arbeloa wasn't a known player like Finnan in La Liga. Not a big name. He's being a decent player for the premiership, though. He's a modern defender, fairly quick, good marker, very versatile. The perfect example of how a player can perform well in two leagues that ARE NOT that different. In the other hand I know of 5-6 top teams in La Liga that would be happy with Finnan, Barcelona for one, hasn't got a better RB.

[woof woof !]

Secondly, you're right I'm not a "fan". I'm a supporter. A realistic one at that. Not some southern jumped up self proclaimed funny man who's never been to a game in his life. Not only am I a supporter, but I've played, coached and developed an understanding of the game.

For christs sake change the f'ucking record . Every time your opinion is challenged out comes the "I've played , I've coached , don't talk to me i know more than you blah blah blah "

Why do you even bother entering a footy forum ? Surely judging by your attitude you know it all , why waste time with people that obviously don't have a clue lad ?

I'm surprised given what you've achieved you elect to spend your time educating the likes of us . You should be employed in a professional capacity at some premier league outfit . 








































         

[Stu.Murph]

Spewart, no it wasnt, you live your life based on old news. Ballack has been awful this season, he ahs not added a thing to the team, in fact the chelsea supporters boo when he stays on the pitch.

And i did not compare our league to spains, if you learnt to read instead of w@nking at your own reflection ud notice this. I said that the best teams do not always win.

You have no faith in our team, thats obvious, so you go back to "i watch more games than you" which is just pretty sad.

Finnan wouldnt get into the top 2 sides? Alonso? Masherano? You are telling me that Kalou is better than kuyt or crouch? Carrick is better than any of our midfield?

Get your finger out of your @ss, grow up, and learn that sometimes your opinions are wrong.

"Spewart" Is that the best you can do? How old are you again?

You clearly did compare our league to Spains as you used this as your example.

Finnan is not, never will be and never has been a better player than Gary Neville as much as I hate to admit it. Mashcerano has played 4 games and now you're saying he's as good as Scholes, Giggs, Ronaldo, Makelele, Lampard, Cole etc. Take the rose tinted specs off lad. Scholes is a better player than Alonso will ever be, as good as Alonso is. Essien's also a great player and easily as good as Alonso. Kuyt and Crouch wouldn't get anywhere near Uniteds team, I love the way you also say they are better than Kalou... So what? They arent' even a 10th of the players Drogba, Shevchenko, Saha, Rooney, Ronaldo, Robben, Giggs, Henry and van Persie are. Not even close.



The league table doesn't lie. END OF ARGUEMENT!

[dawson99]

Spewart, no it wasnt, you live your life based on old news. Ballack has been awful this season, he ahs not added a thing to the team, in fact the chelsea supporters boo when he stays on the pitch.

And i did not compare our league to spains, if you learnt to read instead of w@nking at your own reflection ud notice this. I said that the best teams do not always win.

You have no faith in our team, thats obvious, so you go back to "i watch more games than you" which is just pretty sad.

Finnan wouldnt get into the top 2 sides? Alonso? Masherano? You are telling me that Kalou is better than kuyt or crouch? Carrick is better than any of our midfield?

Get your finger out of your @ss, grow up, and learn that sometimes your opinions are wrong.

"Spewart" Is that the best you can do? How old are you again?

You clearly did compare our league to Spains as you used this as your example.

Finnan is not, never will be and never has been a better player than Gary Neville as much as I hate to admit it. Mashcerano has played 4 games and now you're saying he's as good as Scholes, Giggs, Ronaldo, Makelele, Lampard, Cole etc. Take the rose tinted specs off lad. Scholes is a better player than Alonso will ever be, as good as Alonso is. Essien's also a great player and easily as good as Alonso. Kuyt and Crouch wouldn't get anywhere near Uniteds team, I love the way you also say they are better than Kalou... So what? They arent' even a 10th of the players Drogba, Shevchenko, Saha, Rooney, Ronaldo, Robben, Giggs, Henry and van Persie are. Not even close.



The league table doesn't lie. END OF ARGUEMENT!

nmo stu, i said that if seville win la liga does that make them better than barca... where in that sentence do i compare the leagues?

im merely saying, how u say, that sometimes the league does lie. And even if it doesnt spewart, to say we have no ability is a disgrace from a so called fan/supporter/whatever u r.

And u r called spewart due to the amount of sh!t u talk. u are obviosuly some hasbeen who couldnt make it in life so u come on here trying to be a bully.

Finnan this season has played better than gary neville. His ability was better than nevilles this season. Dont live in the past.

I never said masherano was better than giggs or scholes, but next season he will be as scholes gets slower and giggs stops playing as much and masherano gets better and better.

see, i have belief, but maybe thats because i really like liverpool, not just stats

[Stu.Murph]

Over there the standard of defending is very average in comparrison to over here.

Where does this myth come from?

Out of the top three leagues defending in England is a distant third to Spain and Italy. This has been borne out time and again over the past 15 years by the performance of English sides in Europe.

As you yourself are want to say, Stu, end of. 

If thats the case why are the english sides once again starting to dominate European opposition. with the exception of Cannavaro, Zambrotta and Puyol name me some top defenders in Spain JBG.

I'm sorry, but theres just aren't teams as good defensively as individuals anywhere like there is here. Also the standard of english goalkeeping in general is ALOT higher.

[Stu.Murph]

Secondly, you're right I'm not a "fan". I'm a supporter. A realistic one at that. Not some southern jumped up self proclaimed funny man who's never been to a game in his life. Not only am I a supporter, but I've played, coached and developed an understanding of the game.

And he's only 23 years old!

Come on Stu, and everybody, let's share opinions on football, not opinions on posters. If we stick to the former, we can achieve great threads, if we start giving opinions on posters, then fights start.

self proclaimed funny man? southerner who doesnt go to matches?

justbecause youve coached some retard camp one summer doesnt make you a manager, it makes u a pr!ck.

stu, no offence, but u r a kunt. u should be banned for being a kunt. u will always be a kunt. no one likes you. so fukk off.

there, case closed.

Touch a nerve?

[dawson99]

Secondly, you're right I'm not a "fan". I'm a supporter. A realistic one at that. Not some southern jumped up self proclaimed funny man who's never been to a game in his life. Not only am I a supporter, but I've played, coached and developed an understanding of the game.

And he's only 23 years old!

Come on Stu, and everybody, let's share opinions on football, not opinions on posters. If we stick to the former, we can achieve great threads, if we start giving opinions on posters, then fights start.

self proclaimed funny man? southerner who doesnt go to matches?

justbecause youve coached some retard camp one summer doesnt make you a manager, it makes u a pr!ck.

stu, no offence, but u r a kunt. u should be banned for being a kunt. u will always be a kunt. no one likes you. so fukk off.

there, case closed.

Touch a nerve?

no, i just think thats the only way for u to listen. and its all facts, and we know u love facts spewart.
u r just trying to annoy people, and its annoying.

[Stu.Murph]

Yup. Also we tend to speak of "Spanish football" and "English football" as something static, something that doesn't change, very cliche.

Precisely.

English football has become more sophisticated in recent seasons. It is becoming more continental in style.

This can be borne out in simply looking at statistics, amongst other things. There are less goals scored per average game than there was two or three seasons ago. I remember reading an article in a paper a few weeks ago which stated that the Premiership had less goals per game than Italy and Spain this season.

Also, if you watch Premiership games in the mid to late 1990s and compare it to Premiership games today you will see a lot of differences. Players are more athletic nowadays than they were 10 years ago, there is more emphasis on pace and most significantly, teams are defending better than they did with more of an emphasis on sides having a defensive midfielder sheltering the back four. Nobody had such a midfielder ten years ago: the closest was Arsenal who had Manu Petit but he was playing far further forward than the likes of Alonso, Makele, Carrick etc do now.

Sabre is correct about Spanish football evolving. I have noticed an increased physicality and workrate amongst Spanish sides over the past 6 or 7 years.

Name a top class spanish defender with the exception of Puyol.

[Stu.Murph]

Secondly, you're right I'm not a "fan". I'm a supporter. A realistic one at that. Not some southern jumped up self proclaimed funny man who's never been to a game in his life. Not only am I a supporter, but I've played, coached and developed an understanding of the game.

For christs sake change the f'ucking record . Every time your opinion is challenged out comes the "I've played , I've coached , don't talk to me i know more than you blah blah blah "

Why do you even bother entering a footy forum ? Surely judging by your attitude you know it all , why waste time with people that obviously don't have a clue lad ?

I'm surprised given what you've achieved you elect to spend your time educating the likes of us . You should be employed in a professional capacity at some premier league outfit . 








































         

Oh started on a member of the clique have I so they all have to have a go? Go on then... look forward to hearing it.

[dawson99]

Marchenas not playing too badly, i think hed walk into most teams. played badly under ranieri, but who didnt?

[Stu.Murph]

Spewart, no it wasnt, you live your life based on old news. Ballack has been awful this season, he ahs not added a thing to the team, in fact the chelsea supporters boo when he stays on the pitch.

And i did not compare our league to spains, if you learnt to read instead of w@nking at your own reflection ud notice this. I said that the best teams do not always win.

You have no faith in our team, thats obvious, so you go back to "i watch more games than you" which is just pretty sad.

Finnan wouldnt get into the top 2 sides? Alonso? Masherano? You are telling me that Kalou is better than kuyt or crouch? Carrick is better than any of our midfield?

Get your finger out of your @ss, grow up, and learn that sometimes your opinions are wrong.

"Spewart" Is that the best you can do? How old are you again?

You clearly did compare our league to Spains as you used this as your example.

Finnan is not, never will be and never has been a better player than Gary Neville as much as I hate to admit it. Mashcerano has played 4 games and now you're saying he's as good as Scholes, Giggs, Ronaldo, Makelele, Lampard, Cole etc. Take the rose tinted specs off lad. Scholes is a better player than Alonso will ever be, as good as Alonso is. Essien's also a great player and easily as good as Alonso. Kuyt and Crouch wouldn't get anywhere near Uniteds team, I love the way you also say they are better than Kalou... So what? They arent' even a 10th of the players Drogba, Shevchenko, Saha, Rooney, Ronaldo, Robben, Giggs, Henry and van Persie are. Not even close.



The league table doesn't lie. END OF ARGUEMENT!

nmo stu, i said that if seville win la liga does that make them better than barca... where in that sentence do i compare the leagues?

im merely saying, how u say, that sometimes the league does lie. And even if it doesnt spewart, to say we have no ability is a disgrace from a so called fan/supporter/whatever u r.

And u r called spewart due to the amount of sh!t u talk. u are obviosuly some hasbeen who couldnt make it in life so u come on here trying to be a bully.

Finnan this season has played better than gary neville. His ability was better than nevilles this season. Dont live in the past.

I never said masherano was better than giggs or scholes, but next season he will be as scholes gets slower and giggs stops playing as much and masherano gets better and better.

see, i have belief, but maybe thats because i really like liverpool, not just stats

Firstly who said we have "no ability". I certainly didn't.

Secondly, do supporters have to think there team is the best in the league? So that means Charlton fans should say Charlton on paper are better than United and Liverpool and should be up there with us? Love it...

Third, I'm not called Spewart either. There isn't a p, e or w in my name and the fact you are resulting to pathetic (not even humourus) insults shows your mentality. I think even a 6 year old would realise how embarressing it is to call someone a name like that an not say it. Its like me calling you poorson... If you're going to insult me at least make it so I'm not cringing at it and feeling sorry for you.

Fourth, I don't try to be a bully, the clique and its head member took a bump the other week when he was rightfully removed for being such a thing. At the end of the day, you lot are the ones who won't stay out of everyone elses business...

Fifth, Mascherano better than Scholes and Giggs?

And finally you have belief because you like Liverpool?

Well I love Liverpool mate, I live there, I breathe Liverpool air, I'm from there. Doesn't mean I have to believe its the be all, end all and best thing ever now does it. 

[Fowler_E7]

Over there the standard of defending is very average in comparrison to over here.

Where does this myth come from?

Out of the top three leagues defending in England is a distant third to Spain and Italy. This has been borne out time and again over the past 15 years by the performance of English sides in Europe.

As you yourself are want to say, Stu, end of. 

If thats the case why are the english sides once again starting to dominate European opposition. with the exception of Cannavaro, Zambrotta and Puyol name me some top defenders in Spain JBG.

I'm sorry, but theres just aren't teams as good defensively as individuals anywhere like there is here. Also the standard of english goalkeeping in general is ALOT higher.

I would say in England there are probably better individual defenders, but tactically spanish teams are certainly better organised defensively than most English teams. The defending of the teams in bottom half in the Premiership is worse than the Spanish equivalents IMO, though you are certainly right about the goalkeepers, most goalkeepers in la liga are very average.

I would say the top 4 teams in England are very strong and a match for any team in world football but the rest are pretty average IMO. Where as in Spain i reckon most of there top ten teams would batter the likes of Everton, Bolton, Newcastle and Blackburn who are considered decent teams in are league.

[dawson99]

spewart getting angry? can tell by all the smiley faces.
I like how u miss out the finnan Vs Neville bit as well (maybe because, shock horror, spewart is wrong!!!)... aww bless u spewwy

anyways, lets argue in pms if u have to, on here we were on about spanish defenders right? What are your views on Merchana?

[Stu.Murph]

Over there the standard of defending is very average in comparrison to over here.

Where does this myth come from?

Out of the top three leagues defending in England is a distant third to Spain and Italy. This has been borne out time and again over the past 15 years by the performance of English sides in Europe.

As you yourself are want to say, Stu, end of. 

If thats the case why are the english sides once again starting to dominate European opposition. with the exception of Cannavaro, Zambrotta and Puyol name me some top defenders in Spain JBG.

I'm sorry, but theres just aren't teams as good defensively as individuals anywhere like there is here. Also the standard of english goalkeeping in general is ALOT higher.

I would say in England there are probably better individual defenders, but tactically spanish teams are certainly better organised defensively than most English teams. The defending of the teams in bottom half in the Premiership is worse than the Spanish equivalents IMO, though you are certainly right about the goalkeepers, most goalkeepers in la liga are very average.

I would say the top 4 teams in England are very strong and a match for most teams in world football but the rest are pretty average IMO. Where as in Spain i reckon most of there top ten teams would batter the likes of Everton, Bolton, Newcastle and Blackburn who are considered decent teams in are league.

I disagree with you saying there teams would batter ours. I think over a longer period of games they'd get a good trouncing if i'm honest.

But over two legs, I agree tactically the "average" is better but the standards of individuals certainly isn't. Not even close.

Beyond Puyol, Cannavaro and Zambrotta I'm struggling to think of any top class defenders in the spanish league.