Liverpool FC Forum

[dawson99]

stu: a true red

Andy Gray is a joke as a commentator. More biased than anyone else i ever heard.
Crouch does add a lot to all teams, he would get into any squad in the premiership but not first choice for some i agree. I never thought he would be first choice for us. He was supposed to be there to give something different.

As for Saha wiping the floor with all of our strikers,... what about fowler? thought u loved him. But i dont think theres much betyween him and ours. Kuyt is still in his premiership season (mention ability and ashton again and i'll puke) and we need to see how the 2nd season goes. altho Saha is looking a class act i will admit, i think our strikers can more than hold there own up.

(and no just taking the pi$$, we'll both stop that, just a proper chat, arguament whatever)

[Stu.Murph]

stu: a true red

Andy Gray is a joke as a commentator. More biased than anyone else i ever heard.
Crouch does add a lot to all teams, he would get into any squad in the premiership but not first choice for some i agree. I never thought he would be first choice for us. He was supposed to be there to give something different.

As for Saha wiping the floor with all of our strikers,... what about fowler? thought u loved him. But i dont think theres much betyween him and ours. Kuyt is still in his premiership season (mention ability and ashton again and i'll puke) and we need to see how the 2nd season goes. altho Saha is looking a class act i will admit, i think our strikers can more than hold there own up.

(and no just taking the pi$$, we'll both stop that, just a proper chat, arguament whatever)

Thought you'd "left the forum"?

Another drama queen.

[dawson99]

no stu, just realised that u r pathetic and u need all the people to moan at on here u can, as u have no other life, now, stick to the thread?

[Sabre]

I really don't want to be everywhere. But Stu, Dawson, we had a bit too much of discussion about this things last weeks, I think it's time to talk about footie only for a while.

Stu, you were told to stick to footie and avoid troubles, you were told that you'd receive cards if you didn't behave, so stick to footie please.

Dawson, I understand Stu's comment has nothing to do with footie, but it would be better not to enter that game and name calling.

Now do whatever you want, you're old enough for that. But don't ask me later if this becomes a bitch fest and some other mod gives you a warning.

FOOTBALL is what's important in this section, and LFC.

[dawson99]

yeah sorry sabre, i can see how what i typed can be construed as not being about football

[Sabre]

BTW Dawson you're absolutely right about Andy Gray in the previous posts to the last two, he annoys me big time.

I think (as you pointed out IIRC) his problem is that he's too biased. Too often I've heard him complaining about a player for minor mistakes, and praising cráp players.

[dawson99]

Thanks you. But Saha is a good player, i didnt deny that, but i think we got good players too

[Ace Ventura]

Stu we are all aware of your thoughts on Ashton, fair enough you have obviously seen alot more of him than most.
From what i have seen he does appear to have all the right ingredients to make a top striker.
But Rafa went for our white peperami lookalike Crouch.
To be honest most laughed or were very angry, i was sort of inbetween thinking i am not sure but will give him a chance.
The goals didnt come at first and we all wondered if it was too much for the lad, then he scores a fluke against Wigan and off he goes, since then his goalscoring record has been every bit as good as anyone else in the Premiership, and at times he plays on his own up front in a style that is designed to concentrate more on not conceding that building attacks.
He was our top scorer last season, broke into the England side and scored a hatfull (all be it against weak opposition) but at the end of the day he has already more than trebled Heskey's international record in less than a third of the caps.
Ashton was selected for the England squad and i was really eager to see how he made the step up, as i had only seen glimpses in the championship and the odd bit on the highlights in the premiership. He had the horror injury that has set him back, and since then Crouch has been messed about by Rafa imo, but when selected come up with the goals. He is one of the champions league top scorers and has 10 league goals now as well which for someone who has played second fiddle to Kuyt and doesnt really get runs of games enough (even when he is bang in form) well i speaks volumes for his strength of character and desire to succeed at Anfield.
We havent heard any moaning to the papers or anything like that.
At the end of the day Stu my point is you may be right and Rafa may be wrong not to have chosen Ashton but if thats the case then Dean Ashton would have to set the world alight when he comes back, because Crouch despit the constant criticism scores goals and causes all sorts of panic to defenders.
7 million people said was expensive,i would imagine he would command about 12 now, i hope we dont sell but if rafa was tempted its always been good business and a very good signing.

[Scottbot]

Stu we are all aware of your thoughts on Ashton, fair enough you have obviously seen alot more of him than most.
From what i have seen he does appear to have all the right ingredients to make a top striker.
But Rafa went for our white peperami lookalike Crouch.
To be honest most laughed or were very angry, i was sort of inbetween thinking i am not sure but will give him a chance.
The goals didnt come at first and we all wondered if it was too much for the lad, then he scores a fluke against Wigan and off he goes, since then his goalscoring record has been every bit as good as anyone else in the Premiership, and at times he plays on his own up front in a style that is designed to concentrate more on not conceding that building attacks.
He was our top scorer last season, broke into the England side and scored a hatfull (all be it against weak opposition) but at the end of the day he has already more than trebled Heskey's international record in less than a third of the caps.
Ashton was selected for the England squad and i was really eager to see how he made the step up, as i had only seen glimpses in the championship and the odd bit on the highlights in the premiership. He had the horror injury that has set him back, and since then Crouch has been messed about by Rafa imo, but when selected come up with the goals. He is one of the champions league top scorers and has 10 league goals now as well which for someone who has played second fiddle to Kuyt and doesnt really get runs of games enough (even when he is bang in form) well i speaks volumes for his strength of character and desire to succeed at Anfield.
We havent heard any moaning to the papers or anything like that.
At the end of the day Stu my point is you may be right and Rafa may be wrong not to have chosen Ashton but if thats the case then Dean Ashton would have to set the world alight when he comes back, because Crouch despit the constant criticism scores goals and causes all sorts of panic to defenders.
7 million people said was expensive,i would imagine he would command about 12 now, i hope we dont sell but if rafa was tempted its always been good business and a very good signing.

That's a cracking post Ace and it's hard to disagree with anything you've said. People tend to blow really hot and cold on here when it comes to Crouch. there doesn't really seem to be an in-between when it comes to people's opinions. We've seen that he tends to score his goals in patches so when he's hot everyone defends hims big time but then when he goes through a lean spell you have to listen to every idiot out there trotting out the usual 'he can't even head a ball and he's twenty foot tall' line.

For me he's somewhere in between. Not the first name on the teamsheet but perfect for some fixtures and always a very good player to have on the bench ASSUMING (and here's the key part) you have 2 better players to start the game for you. I agree that he has been messed about a bit this year and he probably deserves to have played a few more games however, it great to hear the way he talks to the press, he has a first class attitude and i also believe his game can keep on improving with Rafa's attention to detail.

Also Stu, i think you're a bit harsh on the lad when you were analysing his hatrick against Arsenal the other week. I don't care if their back four weren't at the races that day. they were 3 TOP class finishes (particularly the 3rd one when he heeled the ball between his legs onto his WEAKER left foot before putting the ball away) against a top side.

[66-1112520797]

Bob, I like Ashton alot mate, but hes similar to Crouch. And a hell of a lot better. Thats why I don't think theres room for them both.

I don't rate Crouch mate any less than you probably do and I totally agree with what you say. But the fact is he's not good enough over 38 games. Due to a lack of ability. Whatever way you want to mask it... I'm not putting a spin on it, the fact is he's horribley limited and can often be marked out of games and have no effect at all as often happens against the better sides.

You need top players, not decent ones. Crouch is clearly a premier division footballer, but he's never a top player. Compare him to Saha mate and theres simply no comparrison. Ashton's as good as Saha, but different style.

I remember us having Fowler, Owen an on form Heskey and Litmanen to choose from and thinking it doesn't matter. They're all top players. Which they were, the ones we have now, aren't even fit to lace Heskey and Litmanen's boots. Let alone Owen and Fowlers. Heskey in the first season he signed for us shown what he was about, he just wasn't mentally up to being a great player, which is a massive shame.

I am a supporter of Crouch and like Bob said I wholeheartedly agree with. But to say he's not fit to lace Heskeys boot is just laughable.

Get a clue lad.

Also I'd prefer Crouch in my team to Louis Saha, is he now so highly rated because he plays for ManU. Nobody ever drew big comparisons like that when he was at Fulham.
But I tell you why I prefer Crouch over Saha, players like Saha are a dime a dozen. Cisse's, Anelkas, Owens, and your Henry's. A striker with pace who's finnishing abilty is a little better than Cisse's and that aint saying much.

Crouch is a totally different player alltogether and his own style is as rare as rocking horse s.hit in a striker. Not many defenders like playing up against him, he's awkward to play against. Unlike Heskey he has great technical ability and an eye for goal. You say he can be marked out of a game, I'll tell you what mate, most strikers can. Even your Michael Owens and Henry's.

I havent bothered watching Ashton that much so I cant comment. Isnt he injury prone though, if we were to go out and get another striker I'd like to think we could go a class above Ashton. If Ashton was that good wouldnt he of got an England cap by now ? Wouldnt of all the other top teams of come in for him, I dont know ? But what I do know is Crouch is a good player and he'd be the first striker I'd keep at the club out of all four. That might not sound like much, but I believe he's the most effective and most likely to score out of Kuyt, Bellamy and Fowler. Plus he's the best striker suited to Rafa's favoured 4-5-1 formaton out of our others  who arent a patch on him in that formation and I doubt Ashton would be.

Rose tinted specticles.

Simple as that.

Emile Heskey ?


Stevie wonder shades

simple as that.

[66-1112520797]

You keep going on about Crouch being "different"?

Clearly its something you've heard someone say. What exactly is different about him? Ashton's better in just about every aspect of the game as is Saha.

Listen spud dont patronise me with comments like that your not the only one who thinks he knows his football.

[Sabre]

You keep going on about Crouch being "different"?

At least I do.

I wish I could watch him closer and not a TV but anyway, how do you mark Crouch? It's a nuisance for any centre back.

If the ball comes from the air, you can jump and try to win the challenge. Most of the times you'll lose. If you don't jump to him he'll touch the ball and someone else will make danger in a second play.

If he receives the ball he has long legs, and what's worse for a centre back, he has a decent control of the ball. It's complicated to tackle to Crouch. Backwards to the goal he uses his sharp elbows quite well and is not bad protecting the ball and position.

This means Crouch will be always a reference when some ball is compromising the possesion in a more dangerous zone of the pitch. He'll also be a reference in games in which the opposition sits deep.

If that's not all we cannot say according to his numbers he doesn't know to score. We've seen several goals from him of different kinds, from scissor kicks that require certain technical skill, to recently headers, and goals with in which he apparently is comfortable with both of his foot.

Definitely useful, and you know it.

[Stu.Murph]

You keep going on about Crouch being "different"?

Clearly its something you've heard someone say. What exactly is different about him? Ashton's better in just about every aspect of the game as is Saha.

Listen spud dont patronise me with comments like that your not the only one who thinks he knows his football.

Expand on it then. Different?

Whats different about him?

Onto the points Scottbot and Ace make. I'm not stupid boys. I can see what Crouch brings and he's a decent player. He's got ability, of course he has and he helped us step up a level last season comparing to the season before.

The fact is I probably do rate him on a similar scale of what you lads do. We probably see the same strengths and weaknesses in him... but the fact is you deem him as good enough. I don't.

Basically my expectation of a forward is alot higher than you appear to be settling for. I've had millions of "Crouch is not " arguements and defended the lad as much as anyone, but the fact is he's not good enough to win us a league title and is one of the weakest players (in terms of ability) in our squad. The only way to improve imo is replace the weaker players every year with first team quality players.

For me, Bellamy's the only one I'd consider keeping as a fourth choice or third choice.

You need to have a target man, you need a striker who can play in the box, you need one who can play in the hole and you need one who can run in behind.

Litmanen, Heskey, Fowler and Owen for me was the perfect mix of strikers. All "different" and all quality (at the time).

We need the same sort of mix now imo. Ashton, Anelka, Tevez and another.... Defoe maybe? Villa if we're ambitious...

At the end of the day I like top players more than good ones but balance and style has to be right aswell.

[Stu.Murph]

You keep going on about Crouch being "different"?

At least I do.

I wish I could watch him closer and not a TV but anyway, how do you mark Crouch? It's a nuisance for any centre back.

If the ball comes from the air, you can jump and try to win the challenge. Most of the times you'll lose. If you don't jump to him he'll touch the ball and someone else will make danger in a second play.

If he receives the ball he has long legs, and what's worse for a centre back, he has a decent control of the ball. It's complicated to tackle to Crouch. Backwards to the goal he uses his sharp elbows quite well and is not bad protecting the ball and position.

This means Crouch will be always a reference when some ball is compromising the possesion in a more dangerous zone of the pitch. He'll also be a reference in games in which the opposition sits deep.

If that's not all we cannot say according to his numbers he doesn't know to score. We've seen several goals from him of different kinds, from scissor kicks that require certain technical skill, to recently headers, and goals with in which he apparently is comfortable with both of his foot.

Definitely useful, and you know it.

I've never once said he's not useful. Thats my point. We've to many "useful" players in positions where United, Chelsea and even Arsenal have "class".

It shows. Its that simple. Look at the goals scored column in the league table.

We need better strikers and wingers who'll actually play games *cough* Harry Kewell *cough*

[tubby]

Stu the only thing I can say is that now with our better financial situation hopefully there wont be any threads of this sort come next year.