Liverpool FC Forum

by **Greavesie** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:29 pm

give him time....thats a bit ironic considering the subject matter

by **Kenny Kan** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:15 pm

I agree with Ola here.

While I think that perhaps this is the season to start the introduction of phasing Carragher out, Coates will need time to bed in. As it stands and as Ola has said Carra's organisation skills at the back are essential to us, nobody else in the back four can compare. I'd give Coates a go in the rumberlows (can't think of its current name) and go from there. Him or Agger, probably the Dane will need to take on this responsibility (talking at the back, organizing). Even bringing on Coates for Carra when we're 3-0 nil up with 30mins to go in a prem match, or something like that. I wouldn't bung the young lad it at the deep end, it's a risk we don't need to take.

Second to Reina, Carragher would be next in line and penciled in for the game against Spurs next week.

by **maguskwt** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:01 pm

I'm not knocking Carra here... but how do we quantify his 'organizational skill'? Can we really see it? Is it obvious? Or is it over hyped?

All I know is, when he plays with Agger, he does better, when he plays with Skrtel, there are usually alot of miscommunications and mistakes made. I think we tend to play up our favourite players... which is natural...

by **stmichael** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:08 pm

maguskwt wrote:I'm not knocking Carra here... but how do we quantify his 'organizational skill'? Can we really see it? Is it obvious? Or is it over hyped?

It's because he's very vocal on the pitch and is always communicating with his teammates. It's overhyped in the same way that captaincy is imo. Gerrard isn't vocal but he's captain because he leads by example in the way he plays. Unfortunately the fans are always going to be resistent to change when it comes to Carra as he undoubtedly is a legend at the club. Some will see it as knee jerk but as I've said in the past Carra has been on the wane for 18 months now. The majority of fans don't like Skrtel but he must be doing something right considering he played every minute last season. We also only conceded 13 goals in the league after christmas (the best in the league). On Coates, those calling for him to be thrown in have probably never seen the lad play. As it stands, fitness permitting it's Agger+one other for me. Give Coates a runout against Brighton, see how his does then we'll go from there.

by **redtrader74** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:34 pm

The mistake on Saturday had nothing to with age, the game was only starting and his legs and puff were fine, it was a dumb challenge that he did not need to make, all defenders do it, and some get away with one and some don't, he ain't finished yet. FFS Terry is no quicker or stronger than Carra, and Ferdinand makes more mistakes. If as a team we protect our defenders, by spending more time in possession and in the opposition halves the guys at the back will have the freshness throughout the season to snuff out attacks better.

by **metalhead** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:22 pm

He just committed ONE mistake in the last 4 games, he was a colossus against Arsenal and did very well against Bolton, one mistake and everyone wants him dropped

Jeez people

by **Homebooby** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:08 pm

I'll admit that I have only seen a few highlights so I am perhaps not full of all the facts Metalhead and you might be right. I hardly ever comment on someone needing to go, but it's just a general feeling that he has seen better days and there is something undignified in seeing him scrambling around like he did in that incident. For me it is not an uncommon site to see him like that, certainly not in the last few seasons, so either he is struggling, or a dirty cheat and I don't like to see either of them. My concern is more that he won't recover like last season and will struggle against the top teams. We'll see, I hope not.

As for who to replace him with, that comes down to the quantifying of the leadership on the pitch. I can't judge that until he isn't there and it says enough about the legend that he is that we have very little experience of that and can't call it. I think that there be some merit in cutting your losses and settling on the future players for those roles now. If this is still a transition year, bed them in early.

by **stmichael** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:40 pm

nobody's saying we need to dump the guy. we're just saying that his more frequent mistakes and constant hoofing has to mean that he's no longer considered a first choice. it does my head in when he gets shifted to right back to cover for injuries in that area. with johnson and kelly out i hope kenny has the balls to play flanagan there as he's a natural in that position.

by **ethanr** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:49 pm

stmichael wrote:
maguskwt wrote:I'm not knocking Carra here... but how do we quantify his 'organizational skill'? Can we really see it? Is it obvious? Or is it over hyped?

It's because he's very vocal on the pitch and is always communicating with his teammates. It's overhyped in the same way that captaincy is imo. Gerrard isn't vocal but he's captain because he leads by example in the way he plays. Unfortunately the fans are always going to be resistent to change when it comes to Carra as he undoubtedly is a legend at the club. Some will see it as knee jerk but as I've said in the past Carra has been on the wane for 18 months now. The majority of fans don't like Skrtel but he must be doing something right considering he played every minute last season. We also only conceded 13 goals in the league after christmas (the best in the league). On Coates, those calling for him to be thrown in have probably never seen the lad play. As it stands, fitness permitting it's Agger+one other for me. Give Coates a runout against Brighton, see how his does then we'll go from there.

Look at the way Flanno, Robinson and Kelly were incorporated into the team. If it weren't for Carra, we would have been in much deeper trouble. You could see the young lads so many times just looking dead-on at Carra when we were attacking as he was explaining everything to them. They were taking it in as best they could, and they played really well because Carra knows what he's talking about. His organizational skills are better then any CB I've ever seen, and I will always love him as a Liverpool legend.

It's obvious his time is probably coming.. Time isn't exactly on his side. He needs to start the games, but we do need to get Coates in. Like one of you said, maybe when we are up a couple then it would be safe to stick Coates in. I really want Coates to play, but we can't take any huge risks until we see how Coates adapts to the prem.

I'm sure Carra will make a very good manager some day.

by **Greavesie** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:15 pm

I'm sure Carra will make a very good manager some day.

If his team plays like him he's the second coming of Sam Allardyce!!

by **stmichael** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:01 pm

jacdaniel wrote:Coates... Maybe but the lad is only 20 and hasnt played a PL game in his life. I wouldnt throw him in straight away.

i'd throw him in. at the end of the day we're not going to know if he's good enough unless we play him in a big game. forget this "oh he's got to acclimatise nonsense. i know they have injuries at the back but would the mancs be reluctant to throw smalling and jones in anyway? they've only played a handful of premiership games between them.

the sad reality is, if we had signed phil jones for example, he wouldn't have seen a minute of first team action yet aside from the exeter game. that's the sad reality.

by **Greavesie** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:02 pm

People seem a lot more sceptical about throwing a defender in but not many said the same about Suarez, there was a genuine buzz to see what he could do. I feel the same about Coates, give him a shot and see how it goes

by **Scottbot** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:17 pm

Ola Mr Benitez wrote:Jamie started last season the same way, yet came back strong and again looked our best CB in the end.

Give him a bit more time before we slag this Liverpool LEGEND too much for making a mistake

His organization skills alone at the moment mean there is nobody else who can replace him

echoes my thoughts. Reaction is over the top. One silly mistake at the end of a 3-0 ball game and a bullsh....it penno decision and he's being written off from here on in. I don't believe he's done just yet.

by **tubby** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:29 pm

Play him against Brighton but id bench him for the Wolves game.

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:45 pm

if he is unable to accept that he is no longer automatic first choice, he can leave.

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