Liverpool FC Forum

[GYBS]

Southend have always given Liverpool frist look at young kids, we did not even turn up this year to look at the ones they said were good, instead we looked at France and Spain (and other places) Grays asked us to look at a few players we said no, ok i think we might have been right there but they ended up going to play for Wolves and we know what they have just done.

I dont agree with GYBS "On the whole they are techincally better , more skillfull "

im pretty sure he would prefer to look at the youngesters at Barcelona etc - the big clubs . yes wolves won the championship - lets see how they do in the big league first

The young kids from abroad have already proved on many occasions how much better skillfully and techincallu they are better than english counter parts - just watch the under 18s at international level then the under 21s , the under 20s and the full internationals ,you always hear of the next big young star to come through and they are never english .

[bigmick]

Not playing devils advocate or anything here, but while I think Lakes was wrong about the predjudice against English kids I think you m,ay be in danger of overplaying the "technical" superiority of overseas youngsters as well GYBS. Technical ability is all very well, but if you are unable to reproduce it while somebody is trying to kick the sh!t out of you you won't make it in England. If you're looking for young players from overseas who have come from overseas and really, truly made it over here (or there) the list isn't that long. I'm a bit tanked up on the old whisky here but the only one I can think of who was completely untried before he came is Fabregas.

He's an @rsey little fecker as well as being a fantastic player, too many of the overseas kids are too well brought up. Who else has made it as a new recruit as a kid? (there's prolly sh!tloads I just can't think of 'em). In England, you need a little bit of devil in you if you're going to make it, I don't give a feck how much technical ability you've got.

[GYBS]

Yeah the physical aspect is something they are not used to but by them coming in early to clubs they learn to deal with it . but i still stand by my post that i think they are and technically and skillfully superior . Training for a young foriegn player abraod is all about making them techincally and skillful players whereas in england its more to do with them teamwork and physical aspect . i think we should coach our kids - from very early age in more a skillfull and techincal aspect with the teamwork and physical stuff coming later in their careers

[heimdall]

List all the english players that have made big breakthroughs at any club over the years ?

And i noticed it has changed from English to british now ?

We all know why clubs go for foriegn players over English players - On the whole they are techincally better , more skillfull and most of all cheaper than there counterparts .

yes we had loads of English kids /British Kids breakthrough 90 -01 but what did they actually win ?

From 01 until now what have we won ?

The club has a fair number of young british lads in the academy and ressies and also a fair number of foriegn lads -

If they are good enough they will get a chance - irrespective of where they are from .

There is no basis or facts to say that the club turns it back on english/british lads .

Yeah but that in itself is surely a damning indictment of our academy.  If they are come in as children then why are they not being trained up to be as technically good, if not better, than the foreign players we are buying as teenagers or are you saying that all British players are inferior in skill to foreign players?

[lakes10]

Southend have always given Liverpool frist look at young kids, we did not even turn up this year to look at the ones they said were good, instead we looked at France and Spain (and other places) Grays asked us to look at a few players we said no, ok i think we might have been right there but they ended up going to play for Wolves and we know what they have just done.

I dont agree with GYBS "On the whole they are techincally better , more skillfull "

im pretty sure he would prefer to look at the youngesters at Barcelona etc - the big clubs . yes wolves won the championship - lets see how they do in the big league first

The young kids from abroad have already proved on many occasions how much better skillfully and techincallu they are better than english counter parts - just watch the under 18s at international level then the under 21s , the under 20s and the full internationals ,you always hear of the next big young star to come through and they are never english .

no you are right they are never English and heres why.....the Media

In the UK  what have got it into out minds (like you) that overseas is better and this has a knock on effect to our clubs.

there is no way that if Steven Gerrard was 14 today whould he go on to make it into our first team, in fact he would have turned to another lower club by now.


there was a report on SSN last year where a young kid from Stoke(not the club) was spotted by someone agency, they contacted Man u and told them about the kid they did not send anyone, the agency tried for a year to get the kid looked at, in the end they took the kid to Spain, gave another name and called Man U again, someone from Man u was out in Spain the day later.

no English kids come with a tag that says skill........dont mean they all have it but it gets their feet in the door.

Right now they is a kid playing footbal somewhere in the UK that is just as goo or even better than any none English of british kid, but the none English or british kid will get looked at first.

if you have a young kid and he is good it dont matter if he pink or comes from the moon, they need to play with the best to make them the best, more time is spent on none English players than english players.

it must change and it will change, right now Rafa has filled or youth set up with very young none english born kids, why? well the new law thats coming in states that you must have home grown players in you team, so instead of finding you english kids we gone and got a load of none english kids to work on so we can call them home grown, god knows what they do at night, maybe they wprk in a sweatshop knocking out Liverpool shirts for the shop. yes money is a bg factor here, we get away in the uk by paying the young none English kids almost nothing and it cost allmost nothing to keep them at the club, if a young english kids was at our club being given very small amounts of money then there dads would be going to the press.

[lakes10]

List all the english players that have made big breakthroughs at any club over the years ?

And i noticed it has changed from English to british now ?

We all know why clubs go for foriegn players over English players - On the whole they are techincally better , more skillfull and most of all cheaper than there counterparts .

yes we had loads of English kids /British Kids breakthrough 90 -01 but what did they actually win ?

From 01 until now what have we won ?

The club has a fair number of young british lads in the academy and ressies and also a fair number of foriegn lads -

If they are good enough they will get a chance - irrespective of where they are from .

There is no basis or facts to say that the club turns it back on english/british lads .

Yeah but that in itself is surely a damning indictment of our academy.  If they are come in as children then why are they not being trained up to be as technically good, if not better, than the foreign players we are buying as teenagers or are you saying that all British players are inferior in skill to foreign players?

its not just us mate, its all the big English clubs

[lakes10]

when players like

Michael Owen
Danny Murphy
Stephen Warnock
Steve McManaman
Jason McAteer
Steven Gerrard
Jamie Carragher

started to make it big at our club other clubs started again to look at English kids, this saw the likes of
man u kids and west ham kids stasrting to make it big.

untill we have a time like that again English football will miss out on the best of english players.

great english have not stopped being born we have just stopped looking for them ans spending time working with them and giving them a chance.

[Owzat]

Southend have always given Liverpool frist look at young kids, we did not even turn up this year to look at the ones they said were good, instead we looked at France and Spain (and other places) Grays asked us to look at a few players we said no, ok i think we might have been right there but they ended up going to play for Wolves and we know what they have just done.

Maybe Southend and Yeovil have always offered us first pick of their best players, and how many players have we EVER signed from either of them? They want us to buy their players, shocker that, but did you not think there might be a reason we stopped going there? Perhaps it was a waste of time, like going to the Outer Mongolian football leagues to search for talent.

Wolves have stuttered quite a bit recently, they have a few talented players but to suggest that we should buy English/British because one or two players from Grays joined a team that won promotion from the Championship is lunacy. Do you think title contention in the Premiership is just a step up from what Wolves did?!?!?!? There's quite a few divisions within the Premiership let alone stepping up from the Championship.

As for the point in general about perceived neglect of the British/English kids, I don't subscribe to the theory that players aren't picked because they are English. If they are good enough then they'll make it at the top, plain and simple. You look at the technical skills of many of the foreigners in the Premiership and they are vastly superior, probably why England comes up short in the World Cup and European Championship - just two semis in the 42 years since our 1966 triumph.

I'd love to see the team filled with English kids, but they have to be something special to play for Liverpool and only a few have made the grade. We've had a few decent kids here, but do you REALLY reckon Guthrie, Warnock, Wright, Mellor, Hobbs and others are good enough to displace their 1st team squad counterparts? Warnock might have made it, I think we should have kept him since LB was very much there for the taking. But these kids have to make a decision, do they want to play 1st team football or cling on to some naive hope they'll be good enough for Liverpool?

And to balance the argument I reckon we've signed some rubbish foreigners, I'm not convinced some of the foreign kids will make the grade either. But not good enough English is no better or worse than not good enough foreign.

You do of course realise Hobbs was plucked from Lincoln City and therefore was given a chance? David Martin was plucked from MK Dons, Paul Anderson from Hull City - all three signed by Rafa. Considering most players find their level fairly quickly these days, the best talents either start at a big club or are poached by a big club pretty rapidly, that plucking three players in 2-3 years from the lower leagues is far from disregarding English talent. The problem is the REALLY good players will cost an arm and a leg, just look at the figures quoted for Fabian Delph who hasn't played at the top level. And the cost of Aaron Ramsey was no snip, although at the cost of some players these days neither of those two will severely dent Premiership clubs' pockets.

I think I've said elsewhere (on here possibly) previously that there are a lot of English clubs, but there are a hell of a lot more clubs outside of England so the resources are bound to be much greater and with a higher probability of discovering an absolute gem. Man Utd brought kids up through the ranks in the 90s, not quite so many make it these days but they do bring in quite a few foreign kids - Fabio and Rafael, Tosic and Ljajic, Macheda, Possebon plus a few who are now establishing themselves like Nani, Anderson and RONALDO.................... Now they could attract the cream of the English talent, in fact they probably do, yet the majority of kids making inroads into the 1st team are not English - is fergie also anti-English? (any more than you'd expect from a scot who brought through the nevilles, becks, scholes and Butt not to mention Brown, Eagles, Richardson etc and his English signings)

And Rafa has signed English, the problem is he's not been able to buy Rooneys, Ferdinands, Carricks etc and not (it seems) gone for Defoe etc, but instead bought a few mid-priced English players like Pennant and Crouch to go with the likes of Carson, Martin, Hobbs and Anderson so he has given English a go. And he's given Spearing, Darby and Kelly a go in the side, he may have had to include them for purposes of quotas but he didn't have to play them.

[GYBS]

Im sorry Lakes but i think you are wrong - very wrong . All the clubs have young english kids in them and every kids league around the country has scots watching them for talent . As for gerrard - once agian thats wrong as he stood out as a kid and then stood out as a teenager and if he hadnt of been picked up by us would of been picked up by another big club - Go to lilleshall Lakes and watch all the young kids there - all english schoolboys - top of the cream for the country - the same place players like gerrard and owen etc went through , they play against foriegn kids around the same age on tours to other countries and regualry end up getting beaten by far better players around the world . Im sorry but english footballers are nowwhere near as good as foriegn lads bar the really top world class ones . We have a couple of them in englad - Gerrard etc where as other countries have a whole squads worth of top class players .

Whatever way you look at it - english footballers no matter what age on the whole are not as good as your spanish players ,brazilians,argentinians,germans , italians etc - you only have to look at the national team for the proof on that and the under 21s and the under 20s and under 18s as i already stated .

[GYBS]

when players like

Michael Owen
Danny Murphy
Stephen Warnock
Steve McManaman
Jason McAteer
Steven Gerrard
Jamie Carragher

started to make it big at our club other clubs started again to look at English kids, this saw the likes of
man u kids and west ham kids stasrting to make it big.

untill we have a time like that again English football will miss out on the best of english players.

great english have not stopped being born we have just stopped looking for them ans spending time working with them and giving them a chance.

well both danny murphy and mc ateer were both bought , and while they were decent players where not of the quality required to win the title - same with warnock . Macca Owen Gerrard Robbie and Carra were obviously top quality and proved it but , they showed it and stood out at a very young age , both owen and robbie were scoring goals for fun at schoolboy level and under 21 level so they stood out - where are these youngsters standing out now ? they arent because the harsh reality of it is they arent good enough or arent better or at the level of their foriegn counterparts.

[lakes10]

we looked and helped Stan Collymore when he was at Southend, we was going to buy him there and then till he got hurt, we was offerd a deal at Nottingham Forest and was there for about 2 years i think but he still was talking to our club then he come to us.

[GYBS]

Is Stan Colleymore really a good example to use ? Yes a good english player but what did he do to his career ? he threw it away .

[lakes10]

when players like

Michael Owen
Danny Murphy
Stephen Warnock
Steve McManaman
Jason McAteer
Steven Gerrard
Jamie Carragher

started to make it big at our club other clubs started again to look at English kids, this saw the likes of
man u kids and west ham kids stasrting to make it big.

untill we have a time like that again English football will miss out on the best of english players.

great english have not stopped being born we have just stopped looking for them ans spending time working with them and giving them a chance.

well both danny murphy and mc ateer were both bought , and while they were decent players where not of the quality required to win the title - same with warnock . Macca Owen Gerrard Robbie and Carra were obviously top quality and proved it but , they showed it and stood out at a very young age , both owen and robbie were scoring goals for fun at schoolboy level and under 21 level so they stood out - where are these youngsters standing out now ? they arent because the harsh reality of it is they arent good enough or arent better or at the level of their foriegn counterparts.

yes but that was then, what is going on now is the big clubs dont spend the same amount of time finding great english kids, the are spending more time overseas looking for them.

as i said great english players have no stopped being born but we have sptoped finding them.

go to go to work now...in fact i going to be late lol

[GYBS]

when players like

Michael Owen
Danny Murphy
Stephen Warnock
Steve McManaman
Jason McAteer
Steven Gerrard
Jamie Carragher

started to make it big at our club other clubs started again to look at English kids, this saw the likes of
man u kids and west ham kids stasrting to make it big.

untill we have a time like that again English football will miss out on the best of english players.

great english have not stopped being born we have just stopped looking for them ans spending time working with them and giving them a chance.

well both danny murphy and mc ateer were both bought , and while they were decent players where not of the quality required to win the title - same with warnock . Macca Owen Gerrard Robbie and Carra were obviously top quality and proved it but , they showed it and stood out at a very young age , both owen and robbie were scoring goals for fun at schoolboy level and under 21 level so they stood out - where are these youngsters standing out now ? they arent because the harsh reality of it is they arent good enough or arent better or at the level of their foriegn counterparts.

yes but that was then, what is going on now is the big clubs dont spend the same amount of time finding great english kids, the are spending more time overseas looking for them.

as i said great english players have no stopped being born but we have sptoped finding them.

go to go to work now...in fact i going to be late lol

They have stopped looking for the great english players lakes - they still scout in the same players - the really great english prospects arent being found because they arent there - simple as that . if they are good enough they will stand out and be picked up . nothing at all to do with their nationality - its all down to ability and thats what counts - i couldnt care less where they come from its how good they are . being english doesnt give anyone any extra bonus points.

[bigmick]

Nobodies come back yet on my question of unknown foreign kids, you know the type "Sparta Pragues best youngster, scored 107 goals in their youth team last season, the new (insert famout Czech player her) Milan Baros, there you go" etc etc. All the clubs sign them, me old man is onto me every week about some Finn they've signed who Jari Littmanen says is better at 16 than he was at 22, or some Spaniard who Real Ovidevo or whoever the feck it is say is the best left back in Europe who hasn't started shaving yet. Nanny will know the drill from her old man, they sign one of these blokes every week. 

We all sign them, but apart from Fabregas at Arsenal, who's made it as an absolute top player? Arsenal have a few arguables, Clichy, Toure etc etc but I'm talking specifically about 16 and 17 year old kids who have gone to England and really become top class players. Any offers over Fabregas (who incidently I think is a wonderful player).