Liverpool FC Forum

[god_bless_john_houlding]

Benitez was building from scratch?

Well, he inherited a squad, but do you believe any of the players you quoted (including Hamman), BTW you forgot Cisse, Dudek, Berger, the french guy I cannot remember the name of, are they even close to the quality we have now?
I am just saying, any manager taking over a team will need to develop the team to his style. and that means knocking down before building up. That is why, I believe a manager should be given 2-3 years to do that. I think Rafa has done that, in fact, I think he should have knocked down more, and with 1-2 new signings we would be very close ( and getting rid of some dead weights).

I just don't believe that Benitez had to build from scratch, also Benitez has had 2-3 years to bring in his players and in the last 3 years Benitez has brought in more than enough dross. On a ratio it's about 1 world star to 5/6 really poor players. Reina/Agger/Alonso/Mascheranho and Torres. 5 really top players, but the amount of players he's brought in 5 isn't good enough. Josemi/Kromkamp/Morientes/Nunez/Kuyt/Paletta/Pelligrino/Gonzalez/Zenden/Bellamy and Aurellio to name but a few of his dross

[HOMER]

the only way that we are going to win the league is if we have better starting 11  than manure, arsenal and cheatski.

at the moment we are way behind these 3 excluding injuries:-

we think we are better than we are:-

we think we have the best centre half partnership in the prem but we havn't - carra and agger are good but - terry + carvalho, vidic + ferdinand and toure + gallas are better as they have power and pace (they can play higher up the pitch and squeeze teams) we play so deep we just invite teams onto us.

right back right wing - finnan + pennant -decent combination but who would you rather have? neville + ronaldo...... on a par with ferreira + cole , sagna + eboue tho

left back left wing - riise + kewell ? rafa doesn't know his best pairing so what chance do i have!
but evra + giggs/nani , cole + malouda , clichy + hleb are all in my opinion better

centre midfield. alonso + gerrard our 2 best players. but this is also a very strong position for the other 3.
essien + lampard, heargraves + scholes, flamini + fabregas. can't call who's the best partnership but gerrard just edges out fabregas as the most inflential player.

strikers - torres + kuyt.  rather have drogba + sheva, rooney + teves or adebayor + van persie because they score goals. torres might be a goalscorer for us but kuyt will never be.

we have a cracking keeper but so have chelsea, the other 2 are poor.

basically we have a long way to go before we can seriously challenge the other 3. we have a decent squad but so have the other teams.
hopefully benitez can close the gap in the next couple of seasons because we have no chance this season - its not that we are poor its the fact that the others are better.

[god_bless_john_houlding]

the only way that we are going to win the league is if we have better starting 11  than manure, arsenal and cheatski.

at the moment we are way behind these 3 excluding injuries:-

we think we are better than we are:-

we think we have the best centre half partnership in the prem but we havn't - carra and agger are good but - terry + carvalho, vidic + ferdinand and toure + gallas are better as they have power and pace (they can play higher up the pitch and squeeze teams) we play so deep we just invite teams onto us.

right back right wing - finnan + pennant -decent combination but who would you rather have? neville + ronaldo...... on a par with ferreira + cole , sagna + eboue tho

left back left wing - riise + kewell ? rafa doesn't know his best pairing so what chance do i have!
but evra + giggs/nani , cole + malouda , clichy + hleb are all in my opinion better

centre midfield. alonso + gerrard our 2 best players. but this is also a very strong position for the other 3.
essien + lampard, heargraves + scholes, flamini + fabregas. can't call who's the best partnership but gerrard just edges out fabregas as the most inflential player.

strikers - torres + kuyt.  rather have drogba + sheva, rooney + teves or adebayor + van persie because they score goals. torres might be a goalscorer for us but kuyt will never be.

we have a cracking keeper but so have chelsea, the other 2 are poor.

basically we have a long way to go before we can seriously challenge the other 3. we have a decent squad but so have the other teams.
hopefully benitez can close the gap in the next couple of seasons because we have no chance this season - its not that we are poor its the fact that the others are better.

We've got europe's best keeper
Ireland's number 1 right back
The most consitant centre half in the last 5 years
The best young centre half
A decent left back in Arbeloa
Our player of the year on the right wing in Pennant
The best complete player in the world in Gerrard
A great dictator of play in Alonso
The Israli captain on the left
The best forward Spain can boast
And England's best striker in the Euro 2008 qualifiers

That side should be capable of winning the league. And should injuries hit we have enough internationals to cover. If our centre mid got injured we can bring in Mascheranho---Arsenal bring in Diaby who's little less than useless. Chelsea bring in an unwanted and ageing Michael Ballack and United bring in Darren bleeding Fletcher. The quality is there and I think our starting 11 is a match for anyone in the Premiership. It comes down to tactics. And aiminglessly throwing the ball up to two very average at best forwards in Voronin and Kuyt won't win the league, which is why we're already 6 points behind top spot. Another post where I'll say it, Liverpool Football Club need to go back to simple passing football with simple basic footballing skills, like how to control a ball and how to pass to a fellow player who is only 5 yards away from you.

[heimdall]

the only way that we are going to win the league is if we have better starting 11  than manure, arsenal and cheatski.

at the moment we are way behind these 3 excluding injuries:-

we think we are better than we are:-

we think we have the best centre half partnership in the prem but we havn't - carra and agger are good but - terry + carvalho, vidic + ferdinand and toure + gallas are better as they have power and pace (they can play higher up the pitch and squeeze teams) we play so deep we just invite teams onto us.

right back right wing - finnan + pennant -decent combination but who would you rather have? neville + ronaldo...... on a par with ferreira + cole , sagna + eboue tho

left back left wing - riise + kewell ? rafa doesn't know his best pairing so what chance do i have!
but evra + giggs/nani , cole + malouda , clichy + hleb are all in my opinion better

centre midfield. alonso + gerrard our 2 best players. but this is also a very strong position for the other 3.
essien + lampard, heargraves + scholes, flamini + fabregas. can't call who's the best partnership but gerrard just edges out fabregas as the most inflential player.

strikers - torres + kuyt.  rather have drogba + sheva, rooney + teves or adebayor + van persie because they score goals. torres might be a goalscorer for us but kuyt will never be.

we have a cracking keeper but so have chelsea, the other 2 are poor.

basically we have a long way to go before we can seriously challenge the other 3. we have a decent squad but so have the other teams.
hopefully benitez can close the gap in the next couple of seasons because we have no chance this season - its not that we are poor its the fact that the others are better.

I more or less agree with this, but a good team is about more than individuals, and if we were playing with good tactics and were motivated then I think we could win, sadly I don't think we will do this with Rafa. I cannot see us winning the league with him in charge, his style of football is perfect for cup competitions but not the league.

[zarababe]

That the team might not be good enough YET to win the league....

Give him a little more time my gut feeling is he will get it right in the end.

I have written this elsewhere too - when you consider the cr.ap he has had to get rid of he is still building and I for one belives we will challenge this year and hoepfully still be in the hunt come may - but the next set of signings will prepare us for a chance to win it in the summer!

[66-1112520797]

but the next set of signings will prepare us for a chance to win it in the summer!

I doubt Zara, as if the team dont perform next year or after the next batch of signings it will be the same old excuse thrown up around here that the new lads havent settled yet.

[zarababe]

but the next set of signings will prepare us for a chance to win it in the summer!

I doubt Zara, as if the team dont perform next year or after the next batch of signings it will be the same old excuse thrown up around here that the new lads havent settled yet.

such an optimistic lot you are ay - you know I have to ask you seriously do you think we had a cr.ap squad and do you think such poorness can be turned around quickly - think aka Wegner and Fergie at Utd building title winning teams !

We forget what Benitez inherited and that buidling a tiltle winning side is process of trial and error - adjusting to knew ways and tactics etc. Arsenal havn't won the title now for 3 seasons? (I think)  now in their 4th year their getting there we need to wait and see what happens - I believe because Benitez is a professor of the game and will get it right !


Believe people believe !!

[66-1112520797]

but the next set of signings will prepare us for a chance to win it in the summer!

I doubt Zara, as if the team dont perform next year or after the next batch of signings it will be the same old excuse thrown up around here that the new lads havent settled yet.

such an optimistic lot you are ay - you know I have to ask you seriously do you think we had a cr.ap squad and do you think such poorness can be turned around quickly - think aka Wegner and Fergie at Utd building title winning teams !

We forget what Benitez inherited and that buidling a tiltle winning side is process of trial and error - adjusting to knew ways and tactics etc. Arsenal havn't won the title now for 3 seasons? (I think)  now in their 4th year their getting there we need to wait and see what happens - I believe because Benitez is a professor of the game and will get it right !


Believe people believe !!

I love your optimisim, and I sincerely hope your right. 

I am optimistic just not all of the time. 

[zarababe]

unbeaten in the league - Ar.se Mancs playing each other today - lets see what happens - I believe we'll win today !

[Owzat]

but the next set of signings will prepare us for a chance to win it in the summer!

I doubt Zara, as if the team dont perform next year or after the next batch of signings it will be the same old excuse thrown up around here that the new lads havent settled yet.

The key is to identify and sign the right players ASAP and let them gel with minimal new signings each summer - arguably what won the mancs the title last season.

Torres apart can we honestly say the new signings will work out? Maybe Yossi, maybe Babel, maybe Lucas..........

[THEBARON]

Yes you get what you pay for and Torres has looked the real deal when fit.
I see a few threads have analysed some of Rafa's signings and there have been some duds there - Josemi , Kromkamp, Morientes , Pellegrino , Nunez etc
But which manager has never made a bad signing ?
If you think some of the above were bad - what about Houllier's record ?
Ferri, Song, Diomede, Vignal, Biscan, Traore, Cheyrou, Diao, Diouf
Maybe our good start raised our hopes prematurely. We have not been playing well - but we are missing 3 key players in Alonso, Agger and Torres. We are still undefeated in the league and whilst we do not appear to be genuine contenders this season I am confident we will be closer to the top 2 than last year.

[god_bless_john_houlding]

Please can people belt up about injuries. Agger gets injured we're bringing in Finland's greatest ever centre half. Alonso gets injured we're bringing in one of Argentina's most important players. Torres gets injured we bring in another full international. Injuries are just an excuse to paper over the cracks of what's proven to be a very average side.

[Bad Bob]

Please can people belt up about injuries. Agger gets injured we're bringing in Finland's greatest ever centre half. Alonso gets injured we're bringing in one of Argentina's most important players. Torres gets injured we bring in another full international. Injuries are just an excuse to paper over the cracks of what's proven to be a very average side.

You seem to be under some misapprehension that all internationals are created equal.  Is Dirk--full Dutch international--Kuyt anywhere near as good as Torres?  No.  Is Sami Hyypia today on par with a younger, more-comfortable-on-the-ball Dan Agger?  Nope.  Does Mascherano have the same range of passing as Alonso?  Don't think so.  The injuries matter.  You make out like we're potential world-beaters because we're a team full of internationals (you've even used Riise as an example in other posts) and then you say we're a very average side?  What's the deal?

[crazyhorse]

That the team might not be good enough YET to win the league.
So blaming Rafa myself included has been a bit unfair.

Our team isn't good enough? If every side in the Premiership had a fully fit side, ours is clearly the best. We've got Europe's best kepper, Ireland's number one right back, the most consistant centre half in Europe for the last 5 years, the best young centre half in Europe, and a very solid left back in Arbeloa. Pennant's been playing out of his skin for the last 6 months or so, 2 of the world's best passers of a football also including the world's greatest player in Gerrard and on the left one of Holland's brightest prospects. Up top we have a world star in Torres and Crouch has proven that without him we're a lot worse. As for the bench, if we hadn't loaned Carson out, we'd have England's next keeper, Finland's best ever centre half, one of Argentina's most important players, the Israli captain and a Dutch international. And that's if we're excluding the rest of the squad who the majority are also full internationals. So how can people say our current side isn't good enough? It's either coming down to tactics, rotation, the departure of Pako, players not happy playing under Benitez or a combinantion of all 5. Sod all to do with the players quality.

And yes I have stated in other posts on the forum that certain players aren't good enough, but out of the 16 I spoke of there only Kuyt in my eyes isn't worthy of a place in the Liverpool squad.

right... of course we're like real madrid now aren't we?

another BS post coming soon to your nearest neighbourhood online forum...

I think we have a very good first team, and a useful squad.. But better than Manure, Chelski and even Arsenal? You are having a laugh lad.

We are at the point that when we have a fit first choice 11 we can go into games with the likes of the above and expect to win. However this does not give us the right to say that we are good enough to win a league competition over 38 games.

[VamosRafa]

I agree with Crazyhorse, to compare our team with Chelsea or Man Utd is ridiculous. Lets look at the first 11 of each team. In any given match, Manure have a group of players who, off there own back, can nick that goal in a tight situation. Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez, Vidic from a set piece, Scholes, even their new players Nani and Anderson seem to pose a threat. Consider Chelsea, they have Drogba, Lampard, Malouda Terry from a set piece, Wright Phillips, Joe Cole, even Shevchenko though he's lost it a bit.

Who do we have? Gerrard, and maybe Torres if he gets back to how he was playing before he got injured or Kewell if he could keep fit for more than 2 games. The problem with our team is that it's not filled with players of the type described above. I'm not even gonna bother to discuss the goalscoring credentials of the defence, and our midfielders/forwards like Babel, Riise, Pennant, Benayoun, Kuyt, Voronin, Crouch will simply not get that goal at Old Trafford, Emirates or Stamford Bridge in the last 10 minutes of a tight game with the pressure on, in a way a championship winning side does. Whats more, on current form these players are not even providing against lesser sides.

You might argue that it's not Rafas style to have these types of players in the team, that it's all about the team working for each other and grinding out goals, scoring "team goals" or whatever the hell they are, but the fact is, the team is begging for a player of this ilk. It's shockingly apparent how much we miss Garcia, because despite lacking in other areas, he was one of those players who could turn a game on its head with a bit of magic. We are desperate for another of this type of player, and it's worth risking 15m plus in order to bring one in January.