Liverpool FC Forum

[stmichael]

What is certain is that him and Henderson as the 2 in a 4-2-3-1 doesn't work.

[The Good Yank]

I actually thought Gerrard was one of our better players Saturday. His range of passing was superb and seemed to be our only creative spark.
He also made a few driving runs at times.

It appears to me our skipper has found himself being made the scapegoat when things dont go well.

Totally agree with you.  I thought we were struggling to create and Gerrard seemed to be the one to step up and try to do it from deep. 

I think we had such a difficult time of it because we had so many new players on the pitch at the same time.

[damjan193]

Although the "Gerrard problem" stands and is open for debate, the Villa game can in no way be used as an argument against Gerrard. Blaming him for the goal is ridiculous and saying that he "tends to drop between the CB's" as if it's a problem is also ridiculous, considering that it's a tactic that has worked very well for us more often than not for the past few months. The reason Gerrard was not contributing and was passing it sideways was because the space was entirely closed down by Villa and the movement from our forwards was either nonexistent (Markovic and Balloteli) or useless (Lallana and Coutinho). Our forwards were so useless, that Stevie even tried to have a go himself further forward.

There are few reasons for the Villa defeat and IMO those are:

1. First of all, Villa are no mugs. They are a team that we always struggle to beat and they are in form. They played a good tactic and their players were very much up for it, unlike ours.
2. Rodgers and his tactics. I have nothing against his starting line-up, not like he had much choice given the injuries. But his unwillingness to change anything when it was evident even at half time that his tactics aren't working is a bit worrying. Changing players like for like leads me to believe that he thinks that it wasn't his fault at all and that it's only the players to blame, an arrogant way of thinking that is going to cause a lot of problems for us (if it is the case).
3. And last but not least, our players, most notably our forward players. They were useless, simple as that. But there's a reason behind that and I believe it's simply because they're not used to the team yet. Markovic and Lallana had their debuts while Balloteli had just started his second. You can't expect them to be as gelled as Sterling, Suarez and Sturridge were after such a short notice.

All in all, I believe it was just a slip and won't happen on regular basis.

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

Well I actually agree about how we should play. Whether we can do it with Gerrard playing that role in the side is open to debate.

I don't think it is open to debate mate, under Brendan we only play with three midfielders as it is and we just can't afford the luxury of one of them sitting next to our CB's when we are trying to squeeze teams high up the pitch.
Brendan's philosophy is all about pace and high intensity pressing and yet we've got the oldest CM in the prem not just in our squad but a fixture in our starting XI.
Would all our midfield woes be over the moment Gerrard is dropped? No they wouldn't, that midfield needs a hell of a lot of sorting out but at least we'd be going in the right direction by having players that suit the system, a 34 year old who can't run and wants to sit deep is just not what Rodgers philosophy demands.
That position has been engineered to suit Gerrard, not because it's best for the team but because it's best for Gerrard, he is a fixture in the team because the manager hasn't got the balls to drop the best player in our 120 year history.
We need the system to be the star now, we no longer have one of the best players in the world up front scoring 30 goals for us and running teams ragged, all our top 4 rivals are the ones with the £60m star names now not us so we need to beat them with our system, if our system isn't working like a Swiss clock we are going to struggle to match those teams.
It's not about names now, it's about committing 100% to the system and that means pressing teams high up the pitch like there's no tomorrow and using our youth and pace to run teams off their feet.
Gerrard has still got a huge role to play for us but he shouldn't be starting every game and playing 90 minutes.
If Gerrard was 24 do you think he would have been faffing around at the halfway line when we were 1-0 down on Saturday? The Gerrard of a decade ago would have been all over the place, winning tackles, making lung bursting runs, threading through balls through for our strikers, firing thunderbolts from 25 yards and just trying to get us back into that game through sheer weight of his personality, that Gerrard has gone, some fans need to realise that.

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

What is certain is that him and Henderson as the 2 in a 4-2-3-1 doesn't work.

It didn't work for England in the World Cup either.

[red till i die!!]

Well I actually agree about how we should play. Whether we can do it with Gerrard playing that role in the side is open to debate.

I don't think it is open to debate mate, under Brendan we only play with three midfielders as it is and we just can't afford the luxury of one of them sitting next to our CB's when we are trying to squeeze teams high up the pitch.
Brendan's philosophy is all about pace and high intensity pressing and yet we've got the oldest CM in the prem not just in our squad but a fixture in our starting XI.
Would all our midfield woes be over the moment Gerrard is dropped? No they wouldn't, that midfield needs a hell of a lot of sorting out but at least we'd be going in the right direction by having players that suit the system, a 34 year old who can't run and wants to sit deep is just not what Rodgers philosophy demands.
That position has been engineered to suit Gerrard, not because it's best for the team but because it's best for Gerrard, he is a fixture in the team because the manager hasn't got the balls to drop the best player in our 120 year history.
We need the system to be the star now, we no longer have one of the best players in the world up front scoring 30 goals for us and running teams ragged, all our top 4 rivals are the ones with the £60m star names now not us so we need to beat them with our system, if our system isn't working like a Swiss clock we are going to struggle to match those teams.
It's not about names now, it's about committing 100% to the system and that means pressing teams high up the pitch like there's no tomorrow and using our youth and pace to run teams off their feet.
Gerrard has still got a huge role to play for us but he shouldn't be starting every game and playing 90 minutes.
If Gerrard was 24 do you think he would have been faffing around at the halfway line when we were 1-0 down on Saturday? The Gerrard of a decade ago would have been all over the place, winning tackles, making lung bursting runs, threading through balls through for our strikers, firing thunderbolts from 25 yards and just trying to get us back into that game through sheer weight of his personality, that Gerrard has gone, some fans need to realise that.

rodgers has more to answer than gerrard for me. he's the one that keeps playing him every week and what do you expect stevie to do ? tell him he don't want to play.
we have more than enough pace in the side to carry gerrard but unfortunately not the quality and thats a problem. when was the last time we dogged teams in their half for the ball ? for me it was back in the first 3 months of brendans tenure and hasnt been seen since. its all about the triangles now and mingolet dropping the ball at his feet every single time and working it from the back. he rarely will intercept a ball and set up a counter attack using one of our speed merchants or even pick a player out with a pass up the pitch.
suarez took people on and opened up play for others, no one does that now and unless they have the support they send it sideways or backwards. henderson is a classic example and even though he finds space he doesnt use it. he comes to receive a ball and before he has it, his mind is made up to send it back again. if anything he should be the player who is running through the opposition midfield and creating chances for the forwards. you will probably say though that he is afraid to come out from under the legends shadow but in truth he doesnt offer enough other than running a lot and seems quite happy to hand the ball to someone else at the earliest opportunity. he has the tools to make those runs and the power to unleash those thunderbolts but he doesnt.
that gerrard is well gone yakka, everyone knows that, but some fans also need to realise that one player with no pace isnt the crux of our problems.

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

red till i die!!

rodgers has more to answer than gerrard for me. he's the one that keeps playing him every week and what do you expect stevie to do ? tell him he don't want to play.
we have more than enough pace in the side to carry gerrard but unfortunately not the quality and thats a problem. when was the last time we dogged teams in their half for the ball ? for me it was back in the first 3 months of brendans tenure and hasnt been seen since. its all about the triangles now and mingolet dropping the ball at his feet every single time and working it from the back. he rarely will intercept a ball and set up a counter attack using one of our speed merchants or even pick a player out with a pass up the pitch.
suarez took people on and opened up play for others, no one does that now and unless they have the support they send it sideways or backwards. henderson is a classic example and even though he finds space he doesnt use it. he comes to receive a ball and before he has it, his mind is made up to send it back again. if anything he should be the player who is running through the opposition midfield and creating chances for the forwards. you will probably say though that he is afraid to come out from under the legends shadow but in truth he doesnt offer enough other than running a lot and seems quite happy to hand the ball to someone else at the earliest opportunity. he has the tools to make those runs and the power to unleash those thunderbolts but he doesnt.
that gerrard is well gone yakka, everyone knows that, but some fans also need to realise that one player with no pace isnt the crux of our problems.

Of course it's Rodgers fault for picking him mate I said that in my post, Gerrard is not going to drop himself, no player would. And I also said all our midfield woes wouldn't be over the minute he was left out as well, that midfield needs a lot work. We'd lose a bit in attack as well because on his day he can pick out a pass but what we would be able to do is totally 100% commit to the type of pressing game that Brendan spoke about implementing when he first arrived.
Your spot on about us only using the 'full court press' for about 3 months, we had some success with it early on but teams soon realised that Gerrard was the weak point and they started to by pass our press by targeting the holes he left in our formation, what's more they realised that once Gerrard was caught upfield he didn't have the legs to get back goal side again.
So Rodgers adapted our system slightly, instead of being all over teams like a rash we mostly sat back and hit them on the break with Suarez and Sturridge or every now and again we'd go nuts for 20 minutes and utilise the high press and try and win the game in the opening quarter. We couldn't sustain it for longer than that though.

Even with Suarez we had trouble breaking down set defences so this slow build up is doing us no favours at all, we need to start winning the ball back off teams high up the pitch and getting at them while half their team are up in our half.
As a unit we need to start playing further up the pitch even when we don't have the ball and we have to start utilising our pace and energy to run teams ragged, we have got one of the youngest teams in the division but we play at a snails pace, it doesn't make any sense.
This won't happen over night, to perfect the high press we are going to have to Kop a few bad results but if we do perfect it it will allow us to compete against teams who spend £60m on one player.
IMO Gerrard is just delaying the implementation of the pressing game. In this post Suarez era the pressing game is absolutely vital to us, you are almost attacking when you are defending.

[damjan193]

Yakka, that constant pressing game you're talking about is almost physically impossible to play every game considering the tight schedule. Even with a big squad, the players will burn out very quickly like that (not just Gerrard). That's why IMO Brendan wants to adopt a slightly different approach and will try to see games out a bit differently from last season.

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

I agree with Yakka ,only last week Suso openly stated how he loves the way Rodgers preference is to play a high pressing game ,and in training he wants them to use
the ball in short passes ,and how he deplores the long ball ? So why is Gerrard constantly trying to pick out a player with a Hollywood pass ...I mean surely if such a ball
in training is vetoed ,then it should be equally forbidden in a competitive match ? Gerrards inclusion in this team practically thwarts Rodgers philosophy every time he
steps on that pitch.... I mean he's 34 ffs ,how many players in a Premiership top four team are holding down (according to the manager a pivotal role) for f*cking 90mins
every game ?  Its slowly bordering on the ridiculous.

[UvS xR4GEx]

Gerrard wasn't the problem against Villa he was really disciplined all game. He obviously got the nod to go forward at the 60 minute mark to try and make a impact but I feel Henderson should have took that role. I honestly feel Gerrards legs haven't got what it takes to drive the team forward anymore .. but still he's a important player holding in midfield

We did the classic spurs error from last year ... too many new faces thrown in all at once. Lovren, Moreno, Ballotelli,  Manquillo, Lallana, Markovic .. 6 new faces playing with each other for the first time was a big mistake and hopefully Brendan learns from this mistake.

Sorry if this makes no sense ive been out and had a few brewskies tonight.

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

The situation with Gerrard needs rectifying and it needs to be done quickly ,otherwise we will be looking at the remnants of another season that slipped away from us
when we should have been growing as a team ,and blooding a squad of exciting (with particular emphasis on' young') talent...Rodgers needs to draw the curtains on
Gerrards  career before this Liverpool legends epic fall from grace can only be twinned with his own.....Its that imperative ,I personally cant believe the player that
offers least protection to our back four is played almost religiously week in and week out ,and then afforded the 90 minutes to define his decline even more.

[parchpea]

Gerrard is now officially finished and last year took away what bit was left mentally at least.

No shame in that or saying it, comes to us all.

[only me]

I started this thread because i feared it will come to this....BR needs to take actions now to protect the team and most important to protect Stevie. It's a hard thing to do but  it must be done...The bigger question is who steps into this role?

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

I started this thread because i feared it will come to this....BR needs to take actions now to protect the team and most important to protect Stevie. It's a hard thing to do but  it must be done...The bigger question is who steps into this role?

We don't need a deep lying playmaker, I'd just play Hendo and Allen. e.g -

                              Valdez

        Manquillo     Skrtel    Lovren      Moreno

                     Henderson     Allen

   Sterling              Balotelli             Markovic

                            Sturridge

[only me]

I started this thread because i feared it will come to this....BR needs to take actions now to protect the team and most important to protect Stevie. It's a hard thing to do but  it must be done...The bigger question is who steps into this role?

We don't need a deep lying playmaker, I'd just play Hendo and Allen. e.g -

                              Valdez

        Manquillo     Skrtel    Lovren      Moreno

                     Henderson     Allen

   Sterling              Balotelli             Markovic

                            Sturridge

I wouldn't play Hendo and Allen at the same team...Pick one and place Lallana/Coutinho in their.