Liverpool FC Forum

[bigmick]

Theres a million threads and lots of anger so I thought I might have a bash at some calm assessment. Please only post sensible stuff here regarding the immediate future as in tactics etc.
If I could make one more request. This Doolally Sally the scally person will certainly invade any debate, please don't get drawn into slanging matches.



I think that the feeling in the inner circle will be that while Chelsea deserved their victory today, Liverpool weren't as bad as 4-1 would suggest. Until the somewhat fortuitous opening penalty it was quite even and also before the second goal which came at a good time for them, you couldn't get a cigarette paper between the two teams.
Fot the future, the burning issue for me is not the 4-5-1 formation, it is whether we have the personel to play it. I personally think that the way Mourhino sets up Chelsea is a study on the old Valencia formation but the special one is lucky in that Ranieri signed Duff and Robben/Cole to make the system work.
I think Crouch has started well but on his own and without any quality delivery from out wide I just can't see him puncturing the opposition defences with any regularity. Chelsea were able to defend quite deep today which is unusual when facing teams bombing balls into a target man. If we had a Cisse or a Sinama-Pongolle (possibly the better option) buzzing around and about Crouch I feel sure they would have defended at least a further 10 yards up the pitch to avoid a ricochet or flick-on giving the second striker a shooting chance. The fact they had looked at it and defended deeper today, giving us no room in behind and also sat Makeleli much closer to their centre-backs (he was even contesting headers in the first couple of minutes) made them look very solid today.
I think the time has come for a vibrant, high tempo 4-4-2. At the moment it isn't working and I hope we are big enough to look at it and act.

[drummerphil]

I agree Mick,but Rafa has already stated after the game he didnt think much was wrong apart from a couple of mistakes and he will carry on with the formation and the belief he has.

[A.B.]

BigMick you're spot on. The 4-5-1 formation isn't going to work as well as it should because we have no width. We have no real wingers in our squad that can make the formation work they way it should.

There's one player who could change that[well at least for the left wing] if he could get his head out of his ar$e and that's Harry Kewell. He played for the reserves last week and I'm hoping to God that he for once goes on a run without injuries and plays well.

If he does that then I think things will work a bit better and then in January we can sign a right winger.

[84-1106852058]

I agree Mick,its ok putting the ball over for Crouch but there is no one there to capitalise on any knockdowns.The first time we won the second ball today resulted in our goal.Morrientes will be fit for our next game,I think Rafa will throw him straight back in,this poses the question who will be alongside him or who will he play behind.

[bigmick]

It just seems to me Phil that we don't get enough bodies in the box often enough to make things happen. If you really look at it, it's hard to see how we are going to score goals with any regularity in this system. We don't get behind teams from wide and put any quality in, if we did we only have Crouch in the box, nobody 'arrives' at that moment in the style of a Cahill or our friend Robbie Earle. We don't cut teams open with incisive passing movements, only Gerrard posesses enough pace to worry teams coming from deep. Only Gerrard had the look of a fella who can score with any consistency with a shot from out side the area and we never flood the box with any numbers to rely on a lucky bounce. We haven't got a channel ball because Crouch doesn't posess the pace to run into that area, and even if he did that would leave nobody in the middle at all. We have two midfielders sitting infront of our back four and then wonder why we look solid (notwithstanding today). Mourhinho said we are difficult to play against and I'm sure we are but do we pose enough of a threat with this system?

[2520years]

We haven't got enough players in the box for years.  We seemed worried about ManUre counter-attacking, then about Arsenal doing the same.  Chelski don't quite counter attack the same, but we need to be more confident going forward.  The trouble is that we're only playing one striker so the attacking instinct isn't there.

[red37]

inside the bootroom?......  id dread to think how many custard creams would have been flying around in there today.....

[bigmick]

If he does that then I think things will work a bit better and then in January we can sign a right winger.

I think thats Rafas plan AB and it's a dangerous one. January is a long way off right now and if things continue, not just todays game but in general our failure to win games, then by January we could be at best mid-table.
The reason Rafa was loved by all and sundry last season was because he was able to take the average players he had been left and make them into a team. It just seems that at the moment he's taking that team and trying to get it to play a system for which the personel isn't suited to.

[zarababe]

Lets face it, the boss has already said that he is looking to strengthen key positions on the rights-side, in defense too. Today's scoreline is bad, but the performance was not. I have faith in the boss, but with my limited knowlegde on tactics I wonder why Garcia gets a starting berth and Cisse only 10 mins.. in a game where high tempo and Cisse's speed coud be invaluable, looks like the Boss ain't happy with Cisse.

I did not expect for us to loose today.. perhaps it's the kick as.s we needed for the managemnet and the players to get things right, but .. in the Boss' own words I draw solice "As far as I'm concerned it's one game lost and anyone with intelligence will see it like that. It doesn't matter what the score was. It's just one game and now we have to look forward. This game has gone and we need to think about the next game."

[Scottbot]

I think Crouch has started well but on his own and without any quality delivery from out wide I just can't see him puncturing the opposition defences with any regularity. Chelsea were able to defend quite deep today which is unusual when facing teams bombing balls into a target man. If we had a Cisse or a Sinama-Pongolle (possibly the better option) buzzing around and about Crouch I feel sure they would have defended at least a further 10 yards up the pitch to avoid a ricochet or flick-on giving the second striker a shooting chance. The fact they had looked at it and defended deeper today, giving us no room in behind and also sat Makeleli much closer to their centre-backs (he was even contesting headers in the first couple of minutes) made them look very solid today.
I think the time has come for a vibrant, high tempo 4-4-2. At the moment it isn't working and I hope we are big enough to look at it and act.

That's a pretty decent assessment Mick. I've been impressed by Crouch so far. He had a decent 1st half today but tired quickly after the break. I think anyone can see he needs some help up there because the midfield simply aren't getting close enough to really support him, or beyond him to make anything of his flick-ons.

You're right about the system. If it's going to work we need players who can run with the ball, engage the full-backs and free space for Crouch and Gerrard. We don't have these players (yet). Failing that we need full-backs who can get involved in attacking play, put in a few crosses, get forward on overlaps every once in a while. Finnan can do this (Traore simply can't) but i get the impression he isn't really encouraged to do so.

A few have suggested Gerrard moving out to the right untill January. I wasn't a big fan of this idea but if Rafa wants to keep with this system it might not be such a bad idea. Most of our better moments today came with Stevie out on the right where he can drop his shoulder & turn the fullbacks inside out.

While i find some of Rafa's decisions strange (as with all managers) i'm absolutely baffled as to why he persists with Traore over Warnock. It's not a knee-jerk reaction to the penalty today. I thought the lad played well on Wednesday but you can actually see the reluctance of the other players to give him the ball. What's more, he doesn't look like he actually wants it himself.

[Effes]

OK, as Rafa says "Lets think of the next game".
Blackburn at home.

Do we really play 4-5-1 at home to them?
Surely this is a chance for Rafa to make changes and I believe going
4-4-2 is a must; playing Cisse is a must.
DerJimi is too much of a liability - no other player in the world ever has done a Cruyff turn into his own goal.

[Luis Garcia's Revenge]

Theres a million threads and lots of anger so I thought I might have a bash at some calm assessment. Please only post sensible stuff here regarding the immediate future as in tactics etc.
If I could make one more request. This Doolally Sally the scally person will certainly invade any debate, please don't get drawn into slanging matches.



I think that the feeling in the inner circle will be that while Chelsea deserved their victory today, Liverpool weren't as bad as 4-1 would suggest. Until the somewhat fortuitous opening penalty it was quite even and also before the second goal which came at a good time for them, you couldn't get a cigarette paper between the two teams.
Fot the future, the burning issue for me is not the 4-5-1 formation, it is whether we have the personel to play it. I personally think that the way Mourhino sets up Chelsea is a study on the old Valencia formation but the special one is lucky in that Ranieri signed Duff and Robben/Cole to make the system work.
I think Crouch has started well but on his own and without any quality delivery from out wide I just can't see him puncturing the opposition defences with any regularity. Chelsea were able to defend quite deep today which is unusual when facing teams bombing balls into a target man. If we had a Cisse or a Sinama-Pongolle (possibly the better option) buzzing around and about Crouch I feel sure they would have defended at least a further 10 yards up the pitch to avoid a ricochet or flick-on giving the second striker a shooting chance. The fact they had looked at it and defended deeper today, giving us no room in behind and also sat Makeleli much closer to their centre-backs (he was even contesting headers in the first couple of minutes) made them look very solid today.
I think the time has come for a vibrant, high tempo 4-4-2. At the moment it isn't working and I hope we are big enough to look at it and act.

I think you are brain dead pal!

Rafa hasnt got a clue how we lost 4-1.. it all comes down to class!

4-5-1 is the reason we are not getting many chances in the opposition third and on the edge of the box.

too much play is trying to "contain" the opposition, rather than pile pressure on them.

Rafa is scared we'll get pasted, just like V man utd when he played the same system.

who plays 4-5-1 at HOME?

pathetic , defensive tactic.

Hamann and Alonso are guilty of not putting any clinical  balls through to Crouch, just spreading the ball left and right, which is inneffective.

its a joke.

Rafa isnt god you know!

Bick Mick is a pr*ck !

[azriahmad]

I have not been saying much lately because there is not much to say.

I keep going back and forth with my mate peewee on why do we always play with a lone striker, even against teams who are expecting us to come at them. Instead, we stifle the midfield with plenty of bodies and no width and keep pumping high long balls to Crouch to battle on his own yet with little support from the others.

If we want to play like that, we don't need fancy dans like Garcia and there is little need for Gerrard because he is wasted. Oh yes, we need him to score vital goals...

I really dislike the way we have been playing this season but I can't help myself, turning on the telly at odd hours here in Malaysia to follow my favourite team even if they are playing 4-5-1 and really dreaded losing than wanting to venture forward and try to make openings.

It is so baffling to me because Rafa Benithez is not a clueless manager like Houllier who is at sea in man-management and tactical flexibility. Rafa Benithez has learned some lessons in English football last season while thriving in Europe where a club with limited players like Liverpool had (last season) ought to have no business beating the likes of Juve and Milan - nearly impossible but Benithez did it. Now Benithez is hell bent on keeping this formation when obviously we have no width to make it a success.

Rafa, do you know something we all (most of the fans I am in touch with, anyway) don't know?

[Effes]

Hmm, I've only just joine dthis website but... are you genuine?
You've got a mate called peewee and you call Rafa "Benithez" (as in
Beneath Us")
I smell a rat.....regardless of how long you've been on here.
It's not beneath a bitter blue to be on here that long.
Malaysia?... hmmmm

[LFC #1]

what a tit you are. Azriahmad is one of the better posters on here, and peewee is a scouser who lives in Malaysia who also posts on here.

I believe Benithez is an alternative way of spelling his name also, it's not wrong.