Liverpool FC Forum

[Benny The Noon]

I don't think we have the finance to sack him, and I can't see him walking without a big payoff. So unless Madrid decide to come in for him (looking less likely by the game) I think he will stay until the summer.

Is that a good reason to stick with a manager? Hope that somehow this is a blip, that next season will improve? If the CL money is as much as is claimed then missing out on the CL could cost us more than sacking Rafa, I think it is something that HAS TO BE CONSIDERED even if it is not followed through. Losing to Chelsea is acceptable, but surely the manager can't be absolved of fault for losing games like Lyon and villa at home, Fulham and Sunderland away. They are four games that we should be winning, certainly not losing all of them. If we merrily write off games like Sunderland and Fulham away as excusable because player X, Y and Z were missing then prepare yourself for Europe League football.

While many may feel this is a 'one-off', 'in Rafa we trust' and all that, do people not fear that this side could be dismantled piece by piece? Alonso has gone, the first "big player" we've sold and our prospects of holding on to others may rest in the hands of the manager and what he can (or can't) do. If we don't qualify for the Champions League, not a worst case scenario but a quite possible eventuality, not only could that impact on players wanting to stay but also on players wanting to come here. That would make the "big payoff" seem like nothing, I'd rather spend £20m-£39m on getting the manager right than have him spend it on three players summer in, summer out without strengthening the squad ie the manager is often wasting it, surely what could prove 'wisely spent' might be worth it?!?!?

What people might find is new owners don't come and 'rescue' the club, I for one have no faith in Rafa's spending patterns and expect even if he had £100m to spend that we might well end up with a list of signings like Barry, Santa Cruz, Lescott etc for silly money. Rafa lets himself get mugged at the best of times, I mean who priced Johnson at £17.5m and wtf priced Keane at £20.3m!?!?!?!? Fair enough you probably can't do simple addition and say we could have spent 'that £38.8m' on Villa or Silva, but it seriously begs questions of the manager's transfer acumen. And sure other managers make mistakes with buys, but does their squad contain Lucas, Plessis, Voronin, Diego, Degen, Dossena, Babel, El Zhar and Kyrgiakos. That's nine signings of the 'nothing special' variety, I've not included the kids like Ayala, Spearing and Eccleston who've played in the Premiership for us, our manager opted to buy two players with 96% of our budget and left the squad so thin we had to play them.

The selling clubs priced those players at the price they were  bought for unfortunatly its a sellers market and prices have been inflated for a while so you have to expect to pay up to 10 mil plus on top of what they are actually worth .

[kunilson]

was at the game and also didnt hear rafa's name being sung once. crowd tried to lift the players everytime something went wrong,and you'll never walk alone at the end was good......but there wasa lot of hostility at times. especially when yossi got subbed off, and the degen sending off if i remember right....

i think he deserves the rest of this season to put things right, no way should he be fu.ked off at this point, no good can come from it....

[NANNY RED]

Might be goin , just waitin to try an sort something out in the mornin

[NANNY RED]

Do you know what there was a banner in Athens that said

ONLY THOSE WHO HAVE STOOD IN ADVERSITY
   CAN REVEL IN GLORY

Says it all really doesnt it

[Benny The Noon]

[account deleted by request]

Might be goin , just waitin to try an sort something out in the mornin

Is that you going to Lyon or Rafa out the door? 

[NANNY RED]

Might be goin , just waitin to try an sort something out in the mornin

Is that you going to Lyon or Rafa out the door? 

Feck off monsieur
Ave vou cuppa    MON DIEU

[Reg]

If we lose to Lyon, so feckin what, grow up.

[ruskiy playmaker]

Do you know what there was a banner in Athens that said

ONLY THOSE WHO HAVE STOOD IN ADVERSITY
   CAN REVEL IN GLORY

Says it all really doesnt it

Good post Nanny. 

[made in UK]

If we lose to Lyon, so feckin what, grow up.

We need more 'super' fans like you. 

[Ciggy]

OWNERS MUST BE YANKED FROM ANFIELD
Story Image


LOST HIS MAGIC? Despite errors, it is not the ‘Great Soprendo’ who must change

Tuesday November 3,2009

SACKING Rafa ­Benitez would be the easy bit. Then what? Before you answer , remember who would be making the decision.

Dismissing managers is always the simplest part of the process at any football club after dismal results. The chief executive usually does the firing, with a short “sorry it has come to this” speech, but the bullet is fired by whoever is in control of the club.

And though “control” might just be exaggerating the divided direction dictated by Liverpool’s joint owners, it is they who will decide whether Benitez’s troubled tenure will be terminated.

More worryingly for anyone who cares about the club, Thomas Ollis Hicks Snr and George Nield Gillett Jnr would also decide what to do next. Why imagine they would steer a sensible course? They have spent 32 months at the helm, wrestling for control , while the club heads for the rocks.

Benitez has also made mistakes. Of course he has. So does every manager. So does every human.

The first major criticism of Benitez is that he has spent a lot of time and a reasonable amount of money buying dross.

The second is that he has prioritised the Champions League instead of the Premier League. A fair-minded jury would convict him of both charges. But there would be persuasive mitigation. The paucity of most Liverpool players is emphasised by the outstanding ability of Steven Gerrard and Fernando Torres, so at least give Benitez credit for those two.

The first act of Benitez as Liverpool manager was to fly to Portugal, where England were competing in Euro 2004, and persuade Gerrard not to join Chelsea.

Three summers later, Benitez bagged the 23-year-old Torres, jumping in when other top clubs were still assessing potential.

And as for the charge of concentrating on Europe, well, again, commend him for what he has achieved.

Under Benitez, Liverpool have played more European matches than they did under Bill Shankly and won more games than they did under Bob Paisley.

They have reached two finals and won one. Benitez had already won the UEFA Cup with Valencia. With his chubby frame and his specs, he is the Great S oprendo of European football.

Now it is said that he needs to pull another rabbit out of the hat tomorrow in Lyon and conjure convincing form in the following couple of domestic fixtures to keep his job – which brings us back to the terrifying prospect of both Hicks and Gillett appointing a successor.

The last time they considered a Rafa replacement, the Americans came up with Jurgen Klinsmann. They did not know who he was, but that did not stop them undermining Benitez by holding talks.

Since then, Klinsmann’s standing has nosedived as dramatically as he used to as a player.

Benitez, for all his flaws and his refusal to acknowledge them, is one of Europe’s elite managers.

And the systemic, structural problems at Liverpool – for instance new debts that are too big and an old ground that is too small – ensure any manager cannot compete with Manchester United, Chelsea and , recently, Manchester City.

Now look at who caused those debts and who have failed to fulfil the pledge of a new stadium.

It is not the manager who needs to change.

http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts....Anfield

[Espionage]

OWNERS MUST BE YANKED FROM ANFIELD
Story Image


LOST HIS MAGIC? Despite errors, it is not the ‘Great Soprendo’ who must change

Tuesday November 3,2009

SACKING Rafa ­Benitez would be the easy bit. Then what? Before you answer , remember who would be making the decision.

Dismissing managers is always the simplest part of the process at any football club after dismal results. The chief executive usually does the firing, with a short “sorry it has come to this” speech, but the bullet is fired by whoever is in control of the club.

And though “control” might just be exaggerating the divided direction dictated by Liverpool’s joint owners, it is they who will decide whether Benitez’s troubled tenure will be terminated.

More worryingly for anyone who cares about the club, Thomas Ollis Hicks Snr and George Nield Gillett Jnr would also decide what to do next. Why imagine they would steer a sensible course? They have spent 32 months at the helm, wrestling for control , while the club heads for the rocks.

Benitez has also made mistakes. Of course he has. So does every manager. So does every human.

The first major criticism of Benitez is that he has spent a lot of time and a reasonable amount of money buying dross.

The second is that he has prioritised the Champions League instead of the Premier League. A fair-minded jury would convict him of both charges. But there would be persuasive mitigation. The paucity of most Liverpool players is emphasised by the outstanding ability of Steven Gerrard and Fernando Torres, so at least give Benitez credit for those two.

The first act of Benitez as Liverpool manager was to fly to Portugal, where England were competing in Euro 2004, and persuade Gerrard not to join Chelsea.

Three summers later, Benitez bagged the 23-year-old Torres, jumping in when other top clubs were still assessing potential.

And as for the charge of concentrating on Europe, well, again, commend him for what he has achieved.

Under Benitez, Liverpool have played more European matches than they did under Bill Shankly and won more games than they did under Bob Paisley.

They have reached two finals and won one. Benitez had already won the UEFA Cup with Valencia. With his chubby frame and his specs, he is the Great S oprendo of European football.

Now it is said that he needs to pull another rabbit out of the hat tomorrow in Lyon and conjure convincing form in the following couple of domestic fixtures to keep his job – which brings us back to the terrifying prospect of both Hicks and Gillett appointing a successor.

The last time they considered a Rafa replacement, the Americans came up with Jurgen Klinsmann. They did not know who he was, but that did not stop them undermining Benitez by holding talks.

Since then, Klinsmann’s standing has nosedived as dramatically as he used to as a player.

Benitez, for all his flaws and his refusal to acknowledge them, is one of Europe’s elite managers.

And the systemic, structural problems at Liverpool – for instance new debts that are too big and an old ground that is too small – ensure any manager cannot compete with Manchester United, Chelsea and , recently, Manchester City.

Now look at who caused those debts and who have failed to fulfil the pledge of a new stadium.

It is not the manager who needs to change.

http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts....Anfield

 

[Anfield's Finest]

Do you know what there was a banner in Athens that said

ONLY THOSE WHO HAVE STOOD IN ADVERSITY
   CAN REVEL IN GLORY

Says it all really doesnt it

Yeah there was another saying..

YOU DREAM ABOUT WHAT WE HAVE ALREADY ACHIEVED

That was my favourite in Athens.

[SouthCoastShankly]

Do you know what there was a banner in Athens that said

ONLY THOSE WHO HAVE STOOD IN ADVERSITY
   CAN REVEL IN GLORY

Says it all really doesnt it

The only problem is we end up standing in adversity every fucking season.

[Sarge]

OWNERS MUST BE YANKED FROM ANFIELD
Story Image


LOST HIS MAGIC? Despite errors, it is not the ‘Great Soprendo’ who must change

Tuesday November 3,2009

SACKING Rafa ­Benitez would be the easy bit. Then what? Before you answer , remember who would be making the decision.

Dismissing managers is always the simplest part of the process at any football club after dismal results. The chief executive usually does the firing, with a short “sorry it has come to this” speech, but the bullet is fired by whoever is in control of the club.

And though “control” might just be exaggerating the divided direction dictated by Liverpool’s joint owners, it is they who will decide whether Benitez’s troubled tenure will be terminated.

More worryingly for anyone who cares about the club, Thomas Ollis Hicks Snr and George Nield Gillett Jnr would also decide what to do next. Why imagine they would steer a sensible course? They have spent 32 months at the helm, wrestling for control , while the club heads for the rocks.

Benitez has also made mistakes. Of course he has. So does every manager. So does every human.

The first major criticism of Benitez is that he has spent a lot of time and a reasonable amount of money buying dross.

The second is that he has prioritised the Champions League instead of the Premier League. A fair-minded jury would convict him of both charges. But there would be persuasive mitigation. The paucity of most Liverpool players is emphasised by the outstanding ability of Steven Gerrard and Fernando Torres, so at least give Benitez credit for those two.

The first act of Benitez as Liverpool manager was to fly to Portugal, where England were competing in Euro 2004, and persuade Gerrard not to join Chelsea.

Three summers later, Benitez bagged the 23-year-old Torres, jumping in when other top clubs were still assessing potential.

And as for the charge of concentrating on Europe, well, again, commend him for what he has achieved.

Under Benitez, Liverpool have played more European matches than they did under Bill Shankly and won more games than they did under Bob Paisley.

They have reached two finals and won one. Benitez had already won the UEFA Cup with Valencia. With his chubby frame and his specs, he is the Great S oprendo of European football.

Now it is said that he needs to pull another rabbit out of the hat tomorrow in Lyon and conjure convincing form in the following couple of domestic fixtures to keep his job – which brings us back to the terrifying prospect of both Hicks and Gillett appointing a successor.

The last time they considered a Rafa replacement, the Americans came up with Jurgen Klinsmann. They did not know who he was, but that did not stop them undermining Benitez by holding talks.

Since then, Klinsmann’s standing has nosedived as dramatically as he used to as a player.

Benitez, for all his flaws and his refusal to acknowledge them, is one of Europe’s elite managers.

And the systemic, structural problems at Liverpool – for instance new debts that are too big and an old ground that is too small – ensure any manager cannot compete with Manchester United, Chelsea and , recently, Manchester City.

Now look at who caused those debts and who have failed to fulfil the pledge of a new stadium.

It is not the manager who needs to change.

http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts....Anfield

 

100% agree to the post.

I am not a regular poster but I feel this is one thread that I definitely want to shout out my opinion.

The issue with liverpool in my opinion is long-term sustainability and in my opinion, there are 3 factors associating to the sustainability:

1. Sizeable Funds & Freedom over Transfers
2. Top Class manager
3. Luck


Sizeable Funds

When a manager is given cr@p money to, logically he has to make the best out of it. Assuming that he was given 20-25M to spend on ONE player, then buying Torres is the sensible option. BUT if he was given 20-25M to resolve the back four issues, would he want to spend on one excellent player, or two average players or 3,4 cr@p players..

I believe any manager when it comes to transfers he must have an "A" list or "B" list and I am very much confident that most of the players mentioned are from the latter list. And do not forget at that time it was Parry who control the transfers and not Rafa.

I am not saying that money can buy everything BUT money can definitely minimize unnecessary risk to the likes of josemi, nunez, kromkamp, gonzalez, bellamy, babel, lucas and so on... Over the years, the decision of player transfer had been solely in the hands of the CEO, only this season rafa is given the authority BUT what authority can he exert if the money is not there in the first place??

Now, to achieve sustainability in clubs like the top four, quality players is the sole factor and to get quality players we need big money. Players like Zidane, Henry, Ronaldinho, Etoo, Ibrahimovich, Gerrard, Torres, ronaldo, kaka, villa etc. do not come cheap and time and time again they contributed sustainability to the clubs they represent.  One fact for sure is that the absence of Alonso clearly derail the balance of the team and lucas just not the man to take his job.

The only remaining question is that how many quality players do liverpool need to achieve that sustainability? Only time and rafa can answer that question.

Chelsea has proven that money can buy instant premiership during mourinho but could not sustain after mourinho left. But now they have another top class manager and they are on the way up again.

And people say money can't buy happiness?

Top Class Manager & Luck

One can argue Scolari was not given the necessary kitty to build "his" chelsea but what about Hiddink? He took chelsea with outright, same players, no new players, but he rescued chelsea. People can call it pure genius but it was all luck to me. Same goes to him when he managed South Korea. Did anyone actually watched how South Korea played at that time?..it was horrible and nowhere near PL standards....and do not tell me lady luck was absent during that time. GH luck ran out soon after we won the treble but he is still a darn good manager.

Klinsmann?? F@ck that sh!t....he's nowhere near chris coleman for all I care....

To cut things short, Rafa is one top class manager in Europe if not in the world. He has the ability, skills, authority and LUCK to bring Liverpool back to where we are suppose to be; 19 times!! All that he needs now is sizeable transfer kitty and the freedom to buy players that fit into his strategies.


Give him the kitty and freedom, and he'll work his magic.