Liverpool FC Forum

[Mark_Walters]

Good points except for the last one. Strachan as manager I dont think so(Unless he brought Beattie with him). I think Toshack would do a good job for liverpool, he has lots of experiance abroad and wouldn't put up with anyof the s##t from players such as Smicer, Heskey et al.

I like the idea of swapping Viduka for Heskey. Viduka may be an arrogant C**t but i think we kind of need a player like him, to turn us around in the way Anelka did. He could thrive at Liverpool, and is a natural goalscorer. Although him and Kewell dont get along. Also bring in Rivaldo for free, i mean its hardly a gamble swapping him for that useless bag of cr#p Smicer. These players can increase the standards of  players around them, like Anelka's class did when he was at Anfield and we won practically every game towards the end of that season.

[JBG]

In reply to the above:

1). I honestly cannot see what people see in Gordon Strachen. He has done well, but the Liverpool job? Even if you are going to look at rookie managers, surely Alan Curbishley and Steve Bruce are better bets?

2). You cannot be serious about Beattie in a Liverpool shirt. The history of football is full of big clubs signing fancy dan strikers from lesser sides, only to see them flop. Does anybody remember Gary Birtles or Chris Armstrong?

3). Toshak is not a great manager. He got a lot of good press in Britain for doing well at Real Sociedad a few years ago, but I have a few friends in Spain (big Valencia fans) who say that Toshak was an absolute joke in Spain, a Christian Gross character if you will.

4). Heskey can no longer get away with the excuse of being a kid. What age is he now? 25 or 26?

5). Bruno Cheyrou is almost 26 and he learned the trade in France. Liverpool aren't responsible for his development, in fact, Houllier might be partly responsible for his regression.

6). If people say that we "schooled" Troare then we are in trouble as a club that raises youngsters!

7). Leeds would never take Heskey from us. They would love him, but they simply cannot afford him, even if we gave him away.

8). Rivaldo is passed it and would cost us £100grand a week in wages. He would be an option if he demanded only £30grand a week and prepared to occasionally sit on the bench like McAllister did, but Rivaldo would come here expecting to be a superstar. Besides, Kewell plays in the same position as Rivaldo and is now a better player.

[Neo#]

We should definitely bring in Viduka. Hes an excellent player. Top class unlike Heskey. Or maybe even Alan Smith. Leeds couldnt refuse a decent offer in their situation. As for a defender, how about Kevin Hofland from PSV. Hes a top class international and its about time he moved to a major club which could be Liverpool. And ive said it before I dont understand why Biscan is keeping Henchoz out of the side.

[Owzat]

My own thoughts on the matter are.....

1.We all agree that Heskey is simply not good enough. We should sell him while he has some value - the likes of Middlesbro or Spurs would probably offer us a few million for him.

2. While it is true that Smicer has improved this season, realistically he is still not good enough to match the likes of Ljunberg, Scholes, Cole, Duff, even Gronkjaere and Parlour etc. Just because he has improved does not mean that he's now good enough for a championship winning team. Maybe selling him would be drastic, but at least sign a better player in his place. He might do a job for us coming off the bench or as a squad player, but nothing more.

3. I was a massive, massive fan of Jerzy Dudek when he first signed. However, he is a confidence player and occasionally lets in a few soft ones, such as the goals in the UTD game. Kirkland looks like an immense keeper and maybe we should bite the bullet by selling Dudek and making Kirkland number 1.

4. Steven Gerrard still has a long way to go. Part of the reason McAllister was signed was to pass on his experience to Gerrard and Murphy, but neither have fulfilled their potential yet. Gerrard is far too ambitious with his passing, with too many crazy first time balls which are just mopped up by the opposition defence. This needs to be addressed. Gerrard would benefit from a specialist coach who would show him how to vary his passes. What about hiring Ronnie Whelan for 12 months?

5. We need to make up our minds about Diao and Cheyrou. There is absolutely no point in allowing these two players rot in the reserves. It is of no benefit to the club nor to the players themselves. We should decide to give them a decent chance but giving both a long run in the side, or just sell them. They are never going to get better if they are only given 7 or 8 starts each a season.

6. Le Tallec and Pongolle are fantastic talents but we shouldn't put too much hope in them yet. They need to be nurtured, but I recommend using them a lot as subs, with the occasional start.

7. The defence is becoming a problem. Hyppia was very good against UTD, but overall he is showing signs of decline. Henchoz hasn't been himself since 2002, and Traore and Biscan, while improving, will never win us the championship.

1. Yes, we have to offload him but timing could be crucial. If he has scored in a few games then his value could go up. We could just write him off and let him go for a million or two. There have been rare glimpses of what Houllier saw in him but let's get shot of him and write him off as a bad move

2. Smicer has been a major disappointment but he hasn't really had a good long run in the side. He has looked quite good on occaision in Europe and I would like to see him play a free role behind a front two

3. Dudek needs confidence and the back line has looked pretty average this season. 12 goals in 12 games is not what the defence should be conceding and something is not right. Maybe give Kirkland and Dudek a sharing role where they have 5-6 games at a time until one makes a strong claim to be number one

4. I had Gerrard in my fantasy team and quickly transferred him. He is still young but needs to show much more consistency rather than flashes of what we know he is capable of. Maybe too much is asked and expected of him

5. If Diao and Cheyrou are struggling to make the squad then they should go. Cheyrou has been a disastrous buy but I would stick with Diao. There is no sense spending millions on players who are not competing strongly for a first team slot

6. Too soon for Pongolle and Le Tallec and they could and maybe should have stayed in France another season

7. Henchoz has been out injured but I still hold hope that Henchoz and Hyppia will be the great pairing they once were. I think playing Biscan at centre back is like the moving of Carragher there and would prefer to see an experienced man there instead. Traore looks better at centre back than left-back (not saying much) but is still inexperienced.

proposal

1. Get rid of Houllier now and put Thompson in temporary charge. A replacement before February would be my aim to give them a chance to experiment and build their team
2. Sell the excess baggage, the likes of Cheyrou who aren't even close to holding down a regular 1st team place, and Heskey who has had his chances
3. We need another quality striker, central defender and at least one creative midfielder (Yakin please!).

[JBG]

Do you remember Houllier's pledge to get rid of the dead wood of Evan's squad?

Ruddock
Freidel
Dundee
Khvarme
Babb
McAteer
Reidle
Byornebye
Leonhardsen

Now, lets look at his own squad

Biscan
Troare
Diao
Cheyrou
Vignal
Diarra
Babbel (I know those three are on loan but they're still Liverpool players)
Smicer
Heskey.

Its funny how the thing has gone full circle.

[Owzat]

don't know if you agree but quite often the worst thing a foreign manager can do is bring in players from his own country or former club. For example, Ferguson brought in McClair and Leighton before the success, Souness brought into several teams Walters, Bjornebye, Amoruso. I could go on but I can't be bothered to come up with more examples but so often these players don't work in a different environment. Houllier has brought in way to many French youngsters and French League players and it is also a failed tactic. You've listed some of the worst players at Anfield and most have some French connection (Traore, Vignal, Cheyrou, Smicer was at a French club, Diarra..........)

[LiverpoolFC_Kopite]

There seems to be too much dead wood now at Anfield and it's definitely time for someone to get rid of it.

We most probably need to buy, like mentioned before, a pacy, commanding centre-back, someone who will sort the defence out, like mentioned Boumsong or Mexes would be excellent buys, being a quickie with a slowie (Hyypia) and getting in another authorative midfielder, Tomas Rosicky was mentioned in places, excellent player and has fallen out with Staff at Dortmund would come for a cut price 5 million, Deisler or Bouma from PSV, all would be great buys.

[Owzat]

With some of the current French connection at Anfield, I'd be reluctant to bring in more.

[jimbolfc04]

i agree, we need to get rid of some of the fringe players at the club. Hopefully houllier will complete the signing of djibrill cisse, he's a class act, and then a pacey centre back. The midfield, apart from a couple (cheyrou, diao e.t.c) is fine. i also beleive that houllier is the right man for the job

[oldredeyes]

GH seems destined to be the man who presides over the last awful Liverpool team before the revolution. The next manager won't come in with a fancy five year plan which gets changed every week. The next manager, if he's got any sense, will come in with the same attitude that Shanks had. Bill made no promises - but he said clearly to every one who listened that Liverpool had the best supporters in the world and deserved the best team in the world. He then went off with a few quid in his pocket and a lot of passion in his heart and sorted the job out.
No fuss, no spin, no s**t.
Shanks made even the most average player feel like he was world class when he pulled on that red shirt. GH on the other hand seems to make world class players feel like ordinary ones.
Shanks never conceded defeat and would never consider giving up on a championship until the final whistle on the final day of the season. Passion...not five year plans.
Skill....not potential - and guts....not excuses.
I agree with supersub - at this time of year there are no contenders available for GH's job(only people like Reidy). So we may have to put up with him for a bit longer. Or we could let Mark Wright have a go for the last few months...can't be worse and he only lives down the road. Sad days or what!

[parch pea]

if we keep houllier im afraid its more french players, cisse and boumsong no doubt. personally, ive had enough of them, we got too many and not top class ones at that. he just cannot look beyond his homeland lately it seems. they come to us with glowing references but never deliver, and i see no reason to assume these two guys wont go the same way. enoughs enough now i reckon.

[Owzat]

Surely it is better to get rid of Houllier before he does make more signings and sell more players? If I were next manager at any club, I wouldn't necessarily want an old manager's new signings. The longer he stays, the worse the squad could get - Kermit could sell Owen to Barcelona, Gerrard to Chelski, Hyypia and/or Henchoz to anyone, the potential nightmare is always there while he remains.

[JBG]

As far Shanks making average players believe they are world beaters, look at what Martin O' Neill has done at Celtic with guys like Hartson, Sutton, McNamara, Agathe, Douglas, McNamara, Balde, Thompson etc?

Imagine what he could do for guys like Carragher, Riise, Murphy, Smicer, Diao, Biscan? He would probably even get Emile Heskey playing well!

If O' Neill had a few million to spend, plus persuade Owen to stay, and get the best out of Baros, Gerrard, Hamman, Finnan, Dudek, Hyppia, and Henchoz, Liverpool could turn into genuine title contenders within twelve months.

Its a big task, but I am 100% confident that O' Neill would turn things around at Liverpool almost immediately.

He has proven that he is a master of getting the best out of under achieving players (contrast Sutton's displays for Chelsea with his excellent performances in the Champions League this season), as well as making very shrewd signings.

Of course the levels of expectation and pressure would be higher at Liverpool than at Celtic, and he would be operating in an infinitely tougher league, but at Liverpool he would have players of greater ability than in Scotland plus 5 times more cash to spend and a chance to attract a better type of player than he can in Scotland.

I have never been as sure of anything in my life: Martin O' Neill will win the league for Liverpool! If I owned a house I'd put it on it!

[greenred]

you can have mine,but the mortgage is due on friday.

[THEBARON]

Yes O'Neill would be my choice to get us back where we belong !My only doubt is whether he would accept the job < if offered > half way through Celtic's campaign with them still involved in a certain competition as well. I hope the stories I have heard from several sources that he has purchased a property in the wirral are true
although he could just be trying to move up the property ladder!
Why would he be the best choice ?
* Successful at the clubs he managed. Celtic have re-emerged and Leicester won trophies.
* Extensive experience ; namely English lower leagues , premiership and Scotland.
* Respect of the players. He played at the top himself , won the league and european cups.
* Straight talking and uncompromising approach. Not talking spin and boll##ks to complete excess.
* Motivational skills. He appears to get the best out of players .
* Personal motivation. What greater challenge than restoring Liverpool to their destiny ?
* Fans perception. He would be a popular choice on the terraces. A high profile manager with a proven track record.
* Finally who else is available ? I think it would be a step backwards to appoint or reappoint former Liverpool greats. I also think that after our French lessons it would be a mistake to go continental again.Strachan appears to have a lot of support and I like his attitude but what has he won and what about his Man Utd past ?
The man for the job is Martin O'Neill whether or not we get him ( and when ) is another matter.