Liverpool FC Forum

[murphy0151]

Lets face it there are alot off players in the current squad who are quite simplt not good enough.   An Hyypia is one off them.  If he is wearing the reds shirt next season I will be very surprised.  What we need is a massive clearout in the summer.   An if we dont get into 4th place this term I think the club will sell Gerrard to Chelsea or Real.   It could be the only way to get some much needed money into strength'n the squad.   I dont want him to go but it increasingly looking like hes going to be offskies.

Hyypia has been a great player for us for some seasons now but he is well passed it.  We need to get some one at the back with blisstering pace.  I hope he does well where ever he ends up but quite simply he has got to go along with another 5 or 6 others.

[115-1073096938]

Sometimes i wonder if people are truely clueless...

Then they open there mouths and remove all doubt!!

[banana]

Anoter away game. Another defeat. Maybe it's something wrong with the system? Maybe there's someting wrong with the mentality? Maybe there's something wrong with the tactics?

There are a lot of maybes. But there is one thing that is clear to every rational individual. There is something wrong with the players. I don't know where to start. Not one single player wore the shirt with pride today. Ok, I'll give thumbs up for Jamie Carragher. Riise showed a llot of effort. Dudek made some good saves. But that's it. I know we are decimated by injuries and I know some of the lads have just returned from long injury spells and probably not fit yet. But for others, I can not give any pardon. One player really stood out as a scapegoat today. Hyypia. And not only today. He has been extremely poor all season. He simply can not adapt to Benitez more attacking approach. Hyypia and Henchoz were great at defending the box when Gerrard and Hamann did all the work just in front of them. But this year when we push the line further up field and Gerrard and the other midfielders try to do other things than defend deep it just falls apart. Without protection from Hamann and Gerrard Hyypia gets exposed time and again. Like today when he allowed Pennant to slide behind his back and have a go at goal only to be denied by a brilliant Dudek save. And throughout the game Hyypia was terrorised by Heskey. Heskey won 90% of the headers. What about the penalty? Hyypia was out of position once again, and instead of getting back between Heskey and the goal he made a clumsy challenge from behind and the referee had no other option than giving the home side a penalty. That was the 5th time in the first 45 minutes that Hyypia was out of position and this time there was no Dudek or Carragher to save his azz. At 2-0 down it was all over. At home vs Fulham last weekend Hyypia and Garcia was to blame for Cole's goal. Garcia lost posession in midfield. That was by it self a bad error, but what was to follow was much worse. Only cole was in a dangerous position and Hyypia had every opportunity to deny cole space in front of goal. But instead of doing just that he was caught ball watching and allowed him to score a simple goal behind his back. I fully blame Hyypia for both goals away to blackburn, both away at fulham, one goal at Soton and many many more. He is not only directly responsible for a lot of goals. He makes the rest feel unsafe and vulnerable and we are always at risk of loosing goals with simple through balls and counter attacks because his lack of pace. I get sick when I try to think back at all the costly errors he has made, can't do that no more I just lose sleep. When we are up against pacey skillful strikers like Henry and Nistelroy it is obvious that they sooner rather than later will get a shot on goal behind Hyypias back. It is tragic that we have no really good central defender like Rio Ferdinand or Campbell or Gallas. That is a big big drawback for us. Carragher is good, but he is not yet in Gallas or Campbells league. Next season we have to sign two new central defenders of superb quality. They must have pace and strenght and also be able to distribute the ball well and play som decent creative balls every now and then. Right now there is no creativity at the back and hardly no creativity in midfield. And the end product is sad. Did we create more than ONE good goal scoring opportunity today, maybe I am wrong in claiming one good chance. We probably created ZERO. But how can we create when we have 20 dead legs on the pitch. Hyypia, Carragher, Traore, Biscan, Hamann, Riise ..... not the most creative set of players around?

When all this is said, I still feel we have made good progress from last season. Houllier had made us a counter attacking team. We defended deep down in our own half Wimbledon style and hoofed the ball up to our strikers. That was even worse. We played anti football. Now with Benitez the players have to play pass and move football again and they can't do it. They do not have the skills for that kind of football. Houllier did this to us. He just friggin concentrated on defending the box and we forgot how to play REAL football. Now we have to start all over again and build a new team. And we all know it is much harder to make a good attacking team than there is to build a defensive wall just in front of the box. So I'm afraid we have to hope for 4th spot and just try to prepare for a decent title shot next season at full strenght with some new additions, particularly some new defenders. And with no Hyypia. Hyypia officially DIED today february 13 2005.


Ratings:

Dudek 7          saved our azz a few times

Finnan 5        (did you cross the halfway line today?)
Carragher 6        never threathned. good positioning, solid tackling
Hyypia 2        created 3 goal scoring opportunities for birmingham and one penalty (another nightmare game)
Traore 3       What is there to say? Bad defending at 2nd goal

Biscan't 3         miracles don't happen
Hamann 4         never bossed midfield like he can do at his best
Gerrard 5          not his best game
Riise 6              always running and trying, bad defending at 2nd goal

Baros 5          bad game from our star striker
Morientes 5          no movement, slow and effortless

I must say that I am surprised that your choice of "scape goat" this time is Sami, it is usually an English player who you choose to blame for our defeats.

1)  The mere fact that you chose to call Sami a scape goat rather than simply single him out as a weak link tells me a lot about your motives.

2)  To think that one single player was the reason for a lack lustre display by the whole team shows a distinct lack of football knowledge.

3)  Your reluctance to punctuate and hit the return key every few sentences makes your posts painfully difficult to read.

As Stu would say, "get a clue" lad.

If Hyypia is out of position all the time, always clear the ball straight into the feet ot the opposition, gives away a stupid penalty, gets outpaced 10 times out of 10. I guess he should not get any blame for the defeat? And it is probably not his fault that he has played so bad all season either?

Turning around Liverpool is a massive task. We all know Liverpool could build a defensive wall just in front of the box and counter well. But that was anti football. Now when we try to move forward our players show their true colours.

This summer's transfer activity will be crucial

Keep:

Riise
Carragher
Dudek
Gerrard
Alonso
Baros
Warnock
Carson
Morientes

Question marks ?? (possibly squad players)
Hamann
Traore
Garcia
Finnan
Josemi
Pongolle
Nunez

Must be sold/given away immediately:
Hyypia
Biscan't
Diao
Cheyrou
Vignal
Kirkland

Should be sold:
Mellor
Henchoz
Smicer
Le Tallec

Dunno what to do about these punks:
Diarra
Diouf
Kewell
Pellegrino
Cisse (can he recover???)

Promote from academy:
Whitbread

It is not very likely that we will receive a lot of money when we clear out the deadwood. A more likely scenario is us paying them to leave. Houllier gave all his flops generous long term contracts and we are in an unbelievable mess. Maybe we have to sell Gerrard since he is the only player with a decent price tag on his head? Benitez has to buy smart and cheap. This means he will probably not be able to buy english or proven premiership quality.

[murphy0151]

Anoter away game. Another defeat. Maybe it's something wrong with the system? Maybe there's someting wrong with the mentality? Maybe there's something wrong with the tactics?

There are a lot of maybes. But there is one thing that is clear to every rational individual. There is something wrong with the players. I don't know where to start. Not one single player wore the shirt with pride today. Ok, I'll give thumbs up for Jamie Carragher. Riise showed a llot of effort. Dudek made some good saves. But that's it. I know we are decimated by injuries and I know some of the lads have just returned from long injury spells and probably not fit yet. But for others, I can not give any pardon. One player really stood out as a scapegoat today. Hyypia. And not only today. He has been extremely poor all season. He simply can not adapt to Benitez more attacking approach. Hyypia and Henchoz were great at defending the box when Gerrard and Hamann did all the work just in front of them. But this year when we push the line further up field and Gerrard and the other midfielders try to do other things than defend deep it just falls apart. Without protection from Hamann and Gerrard Hyypia gets exposed time and again. Like today when he allowed Pennant to slide behind his back and have a go at goal only to be denied by a brilliant Dudek save. And throughout the game Hyypia was terrorised by Heskey. Heskey won 90% of the headers. What about the penalty? Hyypia was out of position once again, and instead of getting back between Heskey and the goal he made a clumsy challenge from behind and the referee had no other option than giving the home side a penalty. That was the 5th time in the first 45 minutes that Hyypia was out of position and this time there was no Dudek or Carragher to save his azz. At 2-0 down it was all over. At home vs Fulham last weekend Hyypia and Garcia was to blame for Cole's goal. Garcia lost posession in midfield. That was by it self a bad error, but what was to follow was much worse. Only cole was in a dangerous position and Hyypia had every opportunity to deny cole space in front of goal. But instead of doing just that he was caught ball watching and allowed him to score a simple goal behind his back. I fully blame Hyypia for both goals away to blackburn, both away at fulham, one goal at Soton and many many more. He is not only directly responsible for a lot of goals. He makes the rest feel unsafe and vulnerable and we are always at risk of loosing goals with simple through balls and counter attacks because his lack of pace. I get sick when I try to think back at all the costly errors he has made, can't do that no more I just lose sleep. When we are up against pacey skillful strikers like Henry and Nistelroy it is obvious that they sooner rather than later will get a shot on goal behind Hyypias back. It is tragic that we have no really good central defender like Rio Ferdinand or Campbell or Gallas. That is a big big drawback for us. Carragher is good, but he is not yet in Gallas or Campbells league. Next season we have to sign two new central defenders of superb quality. They must have pace and strenght and also be able to distribute the ball well and play som decent creative balls every now and then. Right now there is no creativity at the back and hardly no creativity in midfield. And the end product is sad. Did we create more than ONE good goal scoring opportunity today, maybe I am wrong in claiming one good chance. We probably created ZERO. But how can we create when we have 20 dead legs on the pitch. Hyypia, Carragher, Traore, Biscan, Hamann, Riise ..... not the most creative set of players around?

When all this is said, I still feel we have made good progress from last season. Houllier had made us a counter attacking team. We defended deep down in our own half Wimbledon style and hoofed the ball up to our strikers. That was even worse. We played anti football. Now with Benitez the players have to play pass and move football again and they can't do it. They do not have the skills for that kind of football. Houllier did this to us. He just friggin concentrated on defending the box and we forgot how to play REAL football. Now we have to start all over again and build a new team. And we all know it is much harder to make a good attacking team than there is to build a defensive wall just in front of the box. So I'm afraid we have to hope for 4th spot and just try to prepare for a decent title shot next season at full strenght with some new additions, particularly some new defenders. And with no Hyypia. Hyypia officially DIED today february 13 2005.


Ratings:

Dudek 7          saved our azz a few times

Finnan 5        (did you cross the halfway line today?)
Carragher 6        never threathned. good positioning, solid tackling
Hyypia 2        created 3 goal scoring opportunities for birmingham and one penalty (another nightmare game)
Traore 3       What is there to say? Bad defending at 2nd goal

Biscan't 3         miracles don't happen
Hamann 4         never bossed midfield like he can do at his best
Gerrard 5          not his best game
Riise 6              always running and trying, bad defending at 2nd goal

Baros 5          bad game from our star striker
Morientes 5          no movement, slow and effortless

I must say that I am surprised that your choice of "scape goat" this time is Sami, it is usually an English player who you choose to blame for our defeats.

1)  The mere fact that you chose to call Sami a scape goat rather than simply single him out as a weak link tells me a lot about your motives.

2)  To think that one single player was the reason for a lack lustre display by the whole team shows a distinct lack of football knowledge.

3)  Your reluctance to punctuate and hit the return key every few sentences makes your posts painfully difficult to read.

As Stu would say, "get a clue" lad.

If Hyypia is out of position all the time, always clear the ball straight into the feet ot the opposition, gives away a stupid penalty, gets outpaced 10 times out of 10. I guess he should not get any blame for the defeat? And it is probably not his fault that he has played so bad all season either?

Turning around Liverpool is a massive task. We all know Liverpool could build a defensive wall just in front of the box and counter well. But that was anti football. Now when we try to move forward our players show their true colours.

This summer's transfer activity will be crucial

Keep:

Riise
Carragher
Dudek
Gerrard
Alonso
Baros
Warnock
Carson
Morientes

Question marks ?? (possibly squad players)
Hamann
Traore
Garcia
Finnan
Josemi
Pongolle
Nunez

Must be sold/given away immediately:
Hyypia
Biscan't
Diao
Cheyrou
Vignal
Kirkland

Should be sold:
Mellor
Henchoz
Smicer
Le Tallec

Dunno what to do about these punks:
Diarra
Diouf
Kewell
Pellegrino
Cisse (can he recover???)

Promote from academy:
Whitbread

It is not very likely that we will receive a lot of money when we clear out the deadwood. A more likely scenario is us paying them to leave. Houllier gave all his flops generous long term contracts and we are in an unbelievable mess. Maybe we have to sell Gerrard since he is the only player with a decent price tag on his head? Benitez has to buy smart and cheap. This means he will probably not be able to buy english or proven premiership quality.

Dudek other Kirkland  WHAT

[LiverpoolMadman]

Yup ! I do agree that some players should be sell like Hyypia, Biscan't, Diao,
Dudek , Vignal, Hamann and Traore but not this season, if we manage to sell them who going to play for us? We don't have much player left and worse LFC have no money to buy more new players.
BTW, why RB didn't call back our loan players ( the good ones ) like Cheyrou and Diarra; they doing well in France. Maybe too far for them to come back or  in England  doiuf ; he got MOM twice for Bolton.

ONly RB have a answer

[JC_81]

I agree Hyypias last days are behind him but there is a lot more wrong with the side and the defence in particular.

Always build a team from the back out.  For a start we need an experienced keeper.  Dudek and kirkland aren't up to it and carson not yet ready.

We need a left back to replace Traore, finnan is ok for right back.  Someone with pace needed to replace Sami.  Don't understand pellegrino signing, he's even slower than Sami.

Another centre mid is needed, keep alonso and gerrard obviously.  Maybe bring back diarra?

Out wide we need more creativity.  Kewell, nunez and garcia have all struggled for form.  Riise has scored a few but compare him to Duff/Robben/Pires/Giggs/Ronaldo playing out wide for our rivals and he doesn't compare.  We need skillful and creative wide men as a priority.  Where we get them from I dont know.

Up front lets hope baros and morientes click.  Hopefully Cisse will come back.

Also, tactically or mentally there is obviously something wrong judging from our away form.  I reckon its because everyone looks around waiting for Gerrard to inspire them instead of taking more responsibility themselves.  He's our best player but not superman.  Maybe too many spaniards trying to adapt to their first season in a more physical league has contributed to poor away form.

Anyway, the fact is that it is not just Hyypias fault no matter what way you look like it

[supersub]

There are some who see no faults in their idols and to question the"idols" ability serves only to condemn oneself as clueless in their eyes.Banana has a fair point about Hyypia but maybe he is wrong in the use of the word "scapegoat".I don't believe Sami has recaptured the form he showed 3 seasons ago and to be honest I don't think he will.I have no doubt whatsoever that next season will see a new centre-half in Hyypia's place.
          This is not a post on the rebound of recent events but an observation of the last 3 seasons.

[Dom1]

Sometimes i wonder if people are truely clueless...

Then they open there mouths and remove all doubt!!

Another classic from stu there 

[supersub]

stu the red

[A.B.]

There are some who see no faults in their idols and to question the"idols" ability serves only to condemn oneself as clueless in their eyes.Banana has a fair point about Hyypia but maybe he is wrong in the use of the word "scapegoat".I don't believe Sami has recaptured the form he showed 3 seasons ago and to be honest I don't think he will.I have no doubt whatsoever that next season will see a new centre-half in Hyypia's place.
          This is not a post on the rebound of recent events but an observation of the last 3 seasons.

I think Hyypia's career here will end next summer as well, Rafa compliments JC more than Hyypia [to be honest I've haven't heard Rafa say anything about Hyypia].

His weakness[lack of pace] has been exposed too many times.

[Alanay]

Hyppia is closer to the ending and he's aging. He'd been playing very well for the last few years. With new manager, I wud say we need a new CB to partner with JC. JC is very hardworking and determined, but I think we need another CB who can complement JC e.g. with passing skills, good pace and a thinker....

[The_Rock]

Hyppia has been sucking for a few years already. He sometimes comes up with a great performance but that's it.

His "back-tracking" is horrendous. Everytime an opposing attacker gets by him, he just stops in his track. Carra, Finna & Traore are then forced to deal with the problem.

Henchoz was excellant at "back-tracking" ie....covering up for hyppia. He is not here, and hyppia is kept getting found out. But you can be sure hyppia will start the next game...... That is the state of our squad this season.

[banana]

There are some who see no faults in their idols and to question the"idols" ability serves only to condemn oneself as clueless in their eyes.Banana has a fair point about Hyypia but maybe he is wrong in the use of the word "scapegoat".I don't believe Sami has recaptured the form he showed 3 seasons ago and to be honest I don't think he will.I have no doubt whatsoever that next season will see a new centre-half in Hyypia's place.
          This is not a post on the rebound of recent events but an observation of the last 3 seasons.

I have looked up the definition of scapegoat in Merriam Webster:


2 a : one that bears the blame for others b : one that is the object of irrational hostility

and it is clear that scapegoat was the wrong word

But apart from bad wording, my conclusion stay the same. Hyypia will never be good enough for a title challenge. If we want to compete against Manchester United, Arsenal and Chelsea, then we need players of similar quality as: Carvahlo, Terry, Gallas, Campbell, Silvestre, Heinze, Bridge, Cole, Toure, Ferreira, Ferdinand in our defence. We can not show up with a bunch of losers. Compare Hyypia with Campbell or Ferdinand. Compare Traore with Cole, Silvestre, Heinze and Bridge. Those 30 points last season was no coincidence.

Right now we lack basic skills in the team. We create few chances because our most creative players are either out of form or injured. We lack physical strenght and pace in key areas. We lack wingers with flair and crossing skills. We lack a solid reliable goalkeeper. And so on. But I am not so worried as you might think. The reason is we are heading in the right direction. We have stopped playing anti football. At least we try to push forward and attack this season. But changing tactics and formation is not the easiest thing to do, and it will take time and if it is going to pay off we need a lot of new players. And please no more outpaced, out of position defenders.

I've been travelling a lot in recent years, and let me tell you something. Everywhere I go I find a man united jersey. Often I find Arsenal and now Chelsea shirts have started to pop up everywhere. Liverpool shirts are hard to find. If we do not start to produce some decent football and win some worthwhile throphies soon, god knows where we will end up. another wolverhampton? another notts forest?

And yes the rock you are right. He is certain of playing the next game. Why? Bacause we have no other players. There is no competition. And as long as Hyypia plays we will concede soft goals.

[stmichael]

to me, hyypia has been in a gradual decline ever since he was stripped of the captaincy. in my opinion, one of houllier's biggest mistakes was making sami captain in the first place because he just isn't captain material.

[Judge]

bring back Vegard Heggem