Liverpool FC Forum

[Red Macgregor]

I thought of posting something on sport performance measurements to take away the issue of whether footballer X or footballer Y was in fact any good. Of course the issue is that since its not a scientific method it’s left to the fans judgment which is very subjective and could be influenced by say whether the fan likes the footballer or not. How often do woman like a footballer just because she fancies the guy (OK not always but it isn’t unknown for it to happen now is it?)

Now I know the septic tanks (yanks) do some detailed analysis in their football and ice hockey etc so why couldn’t this be done in “soccer”?

I just wondered if we could adopt some measurement system whereby we could “technically” appraise a player rather than all this disagreement we have between the fans that base their judgement on what?

For me I’m not a big fan of Crouch but he (now) scores the goals so for a forward is it simply a matter of how many goals or are there some other scientific means to measure by?

I guess if we ever did find a solution then the forum would be a lot quieter place since the endless arguments over players ability would end, or would it?  I see some TV now measures the distance the player has run during a game as an indication as to how much effort he has put in but is this not just simply how much he has run chasing his tail?

If anyone knows of any good scientific methods then could they share them with us so we really do know who is the best defender or forward or goalminder……..er mean goalkeeper etc.

[Roger Red Hat]

1. how many times in a season has he put the ball in the onion bag?

a. 31 or more = world class (only a few in the world)
b. 20-30 = excellent player (Ronaldinho, Raul, Drogba etc)
c. 10-19 = not bad (Owen, Crouch, Rooney)
d. 1-9 = p!ss poor (Sheff Utd standard)
e. 0 = Diabolicle (bluesh!te reject)

[Kukilon]

A great batter in Baseball in a crappy team will almost hit the same amount of home runs but in football that would not be the case. In some sports certain parts of the game is isolated from the rest of the team and in those cases it's easy to meassure ones "greatness", football does have very few meaningful "isolated" such parts. Sure you could meassure how far a goalkeeper punts a ball in average but what would that give you? A world class striker in that leagues suckiest team would not score 30+ goals a season.

Scoring 15+ goals in a team could mean that you are a world class player but the same amount of goals scored in the best team would make you an average striker.

[LittleHobo]

a good judge is football manager 2007

they always get it right 

crouch is good on the game, bellamy is good, kuyt is good.....but you are always looking to replace them because over a season they just havent got that killer instinct needed to win you titles

on my game i have saved up and now have a strikeforce of David villa and sergio aguero

both wonderstars

[duk]

a good judge is football manager 2007

they always get it right 

crouch is good on the game, bellamy is good, kuyt is good.....but you are always looking to replace them because over a season they just havent got that killer instinct needed to win you titles

on my game i have saved up and now have a strikeforce of David villa and sergio aguero

both wonderstars

How do games like this rate the players?

Do they go and watch every player that appears on their game or do they just guess, use personal bias

[LittleHobo]

i was joking really

but they do get it right more often than not

great young players on old games have always gone on to great success in real life

they seem to get it right, dont know how though.

[Stu.Murph]

a good judge is football manager 2007

they always get it right 

crouch is good on the game, bellamy is good, kuyt is good.....but you are always looking to replace them because over a season they just havent got that killer instinct needed to win you titles

on my game i have saved up and now have a strikeforce of David villa and sergio aguero

both wonderstars

How do games like this rate the players?

Do they go and watch every player that appears on their game or do they just guess, use personal bias

Its an embarressing statement to make to an extent as they completely players attributes up and the game is both and completely unrealistic...

HOWEVER, it is definately a good way of looking at players and seeing what they give, what their strengths and weaknesses are and from there, making a judgement on how good a player is.

[Stu.Murph]

a good judge is football manager 2007

they always get it right 

crouch is good on the game, bellamy is good, kuyt is good.....but you are always looking to replace them because over a season they just havent got that killer instinct needed to win you titles

on my game i have saved up and now have a strikeforce of David villa and sergio aguero

both wonderstars

How do games like this rate the players?

Do they go and watch every player that appears on their game or do they just guess, use personal bias

They have researchers apparently.

They're no good, they get so many players wrong it ruins the game...

However, the idea behind it is very good.

Players get rated on all attributes like pace, finishing, strength, dribbling etc etc out of 20 which leads to their ability level.

Its a very good and correct theory, however, as I say, the game overates to many hald decent players and underates other good players who don't play for top teams.

[SouthCoastShankly]

I always thought the OPTA rankings were quite a good judgement of players against their peers.

[Alonso14]

a good judge is football manager 2007

they always get it right 

crouch is good on the game, bellamy is good, kuyt is good.....but you are always looking to replace them because over a season they just havent got that killer instinct needed to win you titles

on my game i have saved up and now have a strikeforce of David villa and sergio aguero

both wonderstars

How do games like this rate the players?

Do they go and watch every player that appears on their game or do they just guess, use personal bias

They have researchers apparently.

They're no good, they get so many players wrong it ruins the game...

However, the idea behind it is very good.

Players get rated on all attributes like pace, finishing, strength, dribbling etc etc out of 20 which leads to their ability level.

Its a very good and correct theory, however, as I say, the game overates to many hald decent players and underates other good players who don't play for top teams.

They do exaggerate the game to make it more exciting for the mainstream football audience.

But to be fair, on older versions, I'v signed young players that I never heard of and they turn out to be really good. And then a few years later I see them playing at a really high level in Europe.

The researchers have to cover a hugh amount of players and it isn't always possible to get completely accurate.

While some player attributes are also randomized.

[god_bless_john_houlding]

Well OK if there's more than just scoring goals, how can anybody say Robbie Fowler was world class, he stood in the box and scored, nothing else, so on your therory Fowler weren't great and as for Crouch not doing much other than score, look at the amout of assists he made from knock-downs, look at his quick feet out on the flanks (god knows what he's doing out there in the 1st place, but he does a good job out there) and look at the number of free kicks/penalties he wins. Crouch puts the fear of life into defenders because nobody knows how to mark him, he's our best striker and the only one who knows how to score.

[Stu.Murph]

Well OK if there's more than just scoring goals, how can anybody say Robbie Fowler was world class, he stood in the box and scored, nothing else, so on your therory Fowler weren't great and as for Crouch not doing much other than score, look at the amout of assists he made from knock-downs, look at his quick feet out on the flanks (god knows what he's doing out there in the 1st place, but he does a good job out there) and look at the number of free kicks/penalties he wins. Crouch puts the fear of life into defenders because nobody knows how to mark him, he's our best striker and the only one who knows how to score.

Please tell me that post wasn't saying Crouch was better than Fowler?

[god_bless_john_houlding]

Well OK if there's more than just scoring goals, how can anybody say Robbie Fowler was world class, he stood in the box and scored, nothing else, so on your therory Fowler weren't great and as for Crouch not doing much other than score, look at the amout of assists he made from knock-downs, look at his quick feet out on the flanks (god knows what he's doing out there in the 1st place, but he does a good job out there) and look at the number of free kicks/penalties he wins. Crouch puts the fear of life into defenders because nobody knows how to mark him, he's our best striker and the only one who knows how to score.

Please tell me that post wasn't saying Crouch was better than Fowler?

no never could i say Crouch was better than God, but according to the opening post of this topic there has to be to playing up front than putting the ball into the back of the net, which according to that therory crouch was better, which is bill hooks as the 2 ronnies would say. Crouch is our best striker currently and he scores as well as supplies others. I'd be happy to see Kuyt and Bellamy leave in the summer.

[maypaxvobiscum]

kuyt works his socks off for the team and he plays pretty deep. if he played more forward he would probably score more goals. why would u want him out? also, ronaldinho hardly ever tracks back at all to defend. but he does the job acquired of him which is to create and score. so, fowler's job is to score and he does it. can i say that? therefore can i also say that a player should be judged on whether he does his job depending on his position regardless whether or not he contributes anything else (just stands there and score) ? for example - flippo inzaghi.

[god_bless_john_houlding]

Kuyt can't control a ball, it's all very well running round like a headless chicken but he doesn't get anywhere. I'd be happy to see the back of him, but if he proves to be a hit next year I'll hold my hands up and admit I was wrong, but I don't think I'll have to.