Liverpool FC Forum

[Robbie_D]

Our spine is as good as any in the league. Reina, Carragher, Agger, Macherano, Gerrard, Torres.

We just need to build around it.

Johnson will be much better next season. And Lucas has come on leaps and bounds this season (I know those who have already passed judgement on the lad won't agree). Aquilani has been hit and miss, sometimes he comes on and looks a world beater. Other times he looks terrible.

Get in two decent wingers. Send Babel and the likes packing pronto. And if granted the money by the two clowns, get in replacements with a bit of desire.

[Owzat]

We need to bring in what the side needs, not supplement an already inadequate set of players in order to compensate their weakness/inconsistency. A new manager would top the list of wishes for the summer, but if it has to be Rafa or even without, we don't need more CBs or GKs or DMs.

GK - Reina is great, didn't need to spend £3m on a benchwarmer so let's not do it again

RB - I think Rafa should show more faith in Darby or maybe even Degen, if we do buy a new RB then at least get the choice right and don't pay over the odds either

LB - depends if Aurelio is on his way out, but we may need a new LB - but not another £7m flop please

CBs - I blame the system as much as anything (to quote Jimmy Armfield), if we can't put out a strong CB pairing from Skrtel, Carra, Kyrgiakos and Agger then I'd be worried. Maybe Skrtel gives away too many fouls and can't play with Carra, maybe we should sell him and buy a new CB, but I think the players all struggle with zonal marking so ditching it could fix some problems

RM - Kuyt does a solid job, gets us goals which you need from somewhere with only one up front, and his touches, passing, running etc is much better than some would like you to believe. That said it would be nice to have an alternative, although surely with so many players played out of position Rodriguez, Babel, Pacheco, Benayoun etc could fill in if needed

LM - perhaps the least predictable position STILL, Riera not fit or living up to early promise, Benayoun not really a LM but doing a solid enough job despite end product not perhaps living up to his ability (often enough) I thought Tevez as a goalscoring LWF opposite Kuyt as RWF with either able to cover Torres or play alongside Torres was the way to go, Rafa prefers the current more defensive system but how do you get two quality strikers to play for LFC if one knows he will likely be the next Keane? (quite possibly on the bench or not good enough)

DM/CM - I can't believe we'd go out and spend another £20m trying to replace Alonso (again), do we need another DM unless Mascherano leaves, so this is another position I don't see needing summer signings

AM - Gerrard should fill this role, not CM, and if not him then Benayoun or someone else.

CFs - well maybe that should be CF (singular), Torres is good but because we don't have large numbers of creative players in the side he can be marked out of a match and can't be an individual hero every game. How do you get other CFs to come here if they won't get starts in the current system? Something has to give, N'Gog may or may not prove adequate in the long term, but he's no Torres. Kuyt does an ok job when called upon to play CF, not sure if it is worth playing Kuyt alongside Torres or if we have played it that much I've got so used to Gerrard behind Torres with Kuyt on the right.



I'd probably look at more flair players and CFs, although top quality and not just gambles or expensive brits. But no doubt some will see it as another opportunity to clamour for "quality wingers" as if there is no limit to our funds and as if Kuyt does not contribute at all (not true) Part of our problem will be the manager because you can't have three top strikers kept happy in a squad with only one playing in most games, you don't need two DMs so we end up playing them and players like Aquilani end up sitting and watching LUCAS and Mascherano play in the middle. I'm sure many will be put off by the probability they'll be played out of position at some stage, how many players in the squad haven't at some point?

re freebies, they are worth it only if they are good players. Seems we are way too fussy and cut our noses off to spite our faces, I bet we won't touch Joe Cole any more than we would Owen. Instead Rafa prefers Aurelios, Degens, Itandjes and Voronins - and Jovanovic depending on your view of him

I do find it ironic with mention of little money and the quality of football we've played with a dearth of goals at times this season, that we would start off by spending £10m on a CB.

I also have reservations whether Rafa has the wits to use the squad wisely, give Aquilani a run out and truly see if he can cut it in terms of fitness or playing in England. What is there to lose? The league title? The Champions league? Nope, the fight for 4th and to be honest there's no reason to believe we have more chance of finishing 4th without Aquilani than with. Rafa will show his true colours, persist with the formation and system that has laboured so much this season in the honest belief his tactics etc are faultless and it is refs, the players, and anyone but his fault that it doesn't work. Any other manager would have worked it out by now, tried something different and/or ditched zonal marking. Rafa's inflexibility and rigid approach will doubtless cost us and should eventually cost him (his job)

Maybe Real Madrid will need a new waiter sooner than later

[Emerald Red]

personally i still think we need a top class left back. insua has so many flaws and aurelio is made of glass and can't be relied on to play a number of games in a row.

i love carra to bits but we really need to be looking at a long term replacement aswell.

Agree with Carra. Love him to bits, but let's be honest about it, I seriously don't think Benitez instructs and coaches on how to hoof the ball properly. Carra always had it in his game, and he's not about to iron it out now. Recently it's lending a massive hand on some of our terrible performances of late where he can't retain possession and hoofs. Certain occasions its ok, but not every 30 seconds, Jamie! We need Agger fit and a quality partner for him, because he's the only one who has a calm head on him and can bring the ball from the back line at feet, which is essential. We do also still need a quality left full back, unfortunately. Insua isn't that bad, but at Liverpool "not bad" doesn't cut it. We need world class there, but no doubt if Benitez spent 18  million on someone, some folk would cry their lamps out asking why.

Another thing: if you've fallen into a hole, a deep one, you can't expect to bounce straight back up and then leap out of it in one go. You claw your way back out of it, bit-by-bit with effort.

[shawnk]

I think we need to sell some players to hopefully get some money to buy a world class creative CM, yes someone hopefully like Alonso. With some tweaks here and there, we should be able to continue where we left off last season. We have basically the same players like last season so Rafa's system did work as long we have someone good enough to pull the strings in CM. Cheapest way to resolve our problem and bring us back to attacking football.

[Emerald Red]

May I suggest something to the mods?

Anyone who insults our current manager by calling him and "idiot", a "waiter" or a "clown"  or something along those lines is deserving of an instant yellow card IMO. It's bang out of order to read such sh*te on a supposed LFC supporters forum. That is all.

[JC_81]

I do find it ironic with mention of little money and the quality of football we've played with a dearth of goals at times this season, that we would start off by spending £10m on a CB.

Goals conceded:

09/10 - 29 in 29 games

08/09 - 27 in 38 games

07/08 - 28 in 38 games

That's why we need to do something about the defence.

The thread is based on the assumption that Benitez will be manager next season.  If he is then the style of football isn't going to change massively.  With the exception of last season we haven't been a freescoring team under Benitez, but with the exception of this season we have been good defensively.  Without a change in manager or a massive turnover in players the one thing we can improve next season without massive outlay is goals conceded imo.

We need stability at centre half, how many pairings have we had this season?  I'm not convinced by Insua on the left but I'm even less convinced  by our centre halves.  You can't play expansive football with so little mobility in central defence, it affects the way the whole team is set up.  We also have nobody in there, apart from Kyrgiakos when he plays, that is commanding in the air.  So imo it is a priority.  But I do understand other peoples' point of view that we need more flair, it's a matter of opinion.  I just think that we could probably spend 10 million or so on a quality centre half who would improve our starting XI.  Would you find a good enough centre forward/winger for 10 mil these days that would walk into our team?  It's difficult.

[aCe']

We need to bring in what the side needs, not supplement an already inadequate set of players in order to compensate their weakness/inconsistency. A new manager would top the list of wishes for the summer, but if it has to be Rafa or even without, we don't need more CBs or GKs or DMs.

GK - Reina is great, didn't need to spend £3m on a benchwarmer so let's not do it again

RB - I think Rafa should show more faith in Darby or maybe even Degen, if we do buy a new RB then at least get the choice right and don't pay over the odds either

LB - depends if Aurelio is on his way out, but we may need a new LB - but not another £7m flop please

CBs - I blame the system as much as anything (to quote Jimmy Armfield), if we can't put out a strong CB pairing from Skrtel, Carra, Kyrgiakos and Agger then I'd be worried. Maybe Skrtel gives away too many fouls and can't play with Carra, maybe we should sell him and buy a new CB, but I think the players all struggle with zonal marking so ditching it could fix some problems

RM - Kuyt does a solid job, gets us goals which you need from somewhere with only one up front, and his touches, passing, running etc is much better than some would like you to believe. That said it would be nice to have an alternative, although surely with so many players played out of position Rodriguez, Babel, Pacheco, Benayoun etc could fill in if needed

LM - perhaps the least predictable position STILL, Riera not fit or living up to early promise, Benayoun not really a LM but doing a solid enough job despite end product not perhaps living up to his ability (often enough) I thought Tevez as a goalscoring LWF opposite Kuyt as RWF with either able to cover Torres or play alongside Torres was the way to go, Rafa prefers the current more defensive system but how do you get two quality strikers to play for LFC if one knows he will likely be the next Keane? (quite possibly on the bench or not good enough)

DM/CM - I can't believe we'd go out and spend another £20m trying to replace Alonso (again), do we need another DM unless Mascherano leaves, so this is another position I don't see needing summer signings

AM - Gerrard should fill this role, not CM, and if not him then Benayoun or someone else.

CFs - well maybe that should be CF (singular), Torres is good but because we don't have large numbers of creative players in the side he can be marked out of a match and can't be an individual hero every game. How do you get other CFs to come here if they won't get starts in the current system? Something has to give, N'Gog may or may not prove adequate in the long term, but he's no Torres. Kuyt does an ok job when called upon to play CF, not sure if it is worth playing Kuyt alongside Torres or if we have played it that much I've got so used to Gerrard behind Torres with Kuyt on the right.



I'd probably look at more flair players and CFs, although top quality and not just gambles or expensive brits. But no doubt some will see it as another opportunity to clamour for "quality wingers" as if there is no limit to our funds and as if Kuyt does not contribute at all (not true) Part of our problem will be the manager because you can't have three top strikers kept happy in a squad with only one playing in most games, you don't need two DMs so we end up playing them and players like Aquilani end up sitting and watching LUCAS and Mascherano play in the middle. I'm sure many will be put off by the probability they'll be played out of position at some stage, how many players in the squad haven't at some point?

re freebies, they are worth it only if they are good players. Seems we are way too fussy and cut our noses off to spite our faces, I bet we won't touch Joe Cole any more than we would Owen. Instead Rafa prefers Aurelios, Degens, Itandjes and Voronins - and Jovanovic depending on your view of him

I do find it ironic with mention of little money and the quality of football we've played with a dearth of goals at times this season, that we would start off by spending £10m on a CB.

I also have reservations whether Rafa has the wits to use the squad wisely, give Aquilani a run out and truly see if he can cut it in terms of fitness or playing in England. What is there to lose? The league title? The Champions league? Nope, the fight for 4th and to be honest there's no reason to believe we have more chance of finishing 4th without Aquilani than with. Rafa will show his true colours, persist with the formation and system that has laboured so much this season in the honest belief his tactics etc are faultless and it is refs, the players, and anyone but his fault that it doesn't work. Any other manager would have worked it out by now, tried something different and/or ditched zonal marking. Rafa's inflexibility and rigid approach will doubtless cost us and should eventually cost him (his job)

Maybe Real Madrid will need a new waiter sooner than later

good stuff..

Personally i think we need a new system because the one we're using now doesnt quite work with Alonso gone...

First thing i'd look to do is bring in a top quality striker to play upfront with Torres.. Switch Gerrard back to one of the 4 midfield spots and go for a 4-4-2...

Still think Riera is one of our most important players and the fact he hasnt been playing for whatever reason is affecting us this season in terms of retianing the ball higher up the pitch and stretching defenses especially on the break ..

We have some good players so i dont think we really need a major squad overhaul ..

GK: Reina

RB: Johnson
LB:
CB: Carragher
CB: Agger

RM: Gerrard ?
LM: Riera
CM: (Aquilani, Gerrard ?)
CM: Mascherano

FW: (Villa ?)
FW: Torres

Would leave us with this bench:

Cavaieri
Kelly
Insua
Skrtel         
Greek
Lucas
Aurelio
Benayoun
Maxi
Babel           SELL
Kuyt            SELL
Ngog



So.. bring in a top striker, and perhaps a LB (in case Aurelio is sold) and a CM/RM (in case we give up on Aquilani).. A top class CB would be nice but it would depend on the funds we have and whether other clubs are interested in the likes of Skrtel and Agger or not..

[heimdall]

May I suggest something to the mods?

Anyone who insults our current manager by calling him and "idiot", a "waiter" or a "clown"  or something along those lines is deserving of an instant yellow card IMO. It's bang out of order to read such sh*te on a supposed LFC supporters forum. That is all.

Why is it out of order. If someone has lost faith in the manager then why shouldn't they be allowed to express so. Does being a Liverpool supporter mean that you have to kiss Rafa's at each and every opportunity or something? People express there feeling in different ways surely you of all people are not advocating that people have to moderate their language. 

[stmichael]

Personally i think we need a new system because the one we're using now doesnt quite work with Alonso gone.

It doesn't matter what formation you play when the team doesn't move off the ball.

We tend to play 2 or 3 different formations during games anyway. I went to Sunderland away earlier in the season and I couldn't work out what formation we were playing half the time.

For me it's about a change of mentality more than a change of formation.

[JC_81]

Personally i think we need a new system because the one we're using now doesnt quite work with Alonso gone.

It doesn't matter what formation you play when the team doesn't move off the ball.

We tend to play 2 or 3 different formations during games anyway. I went to Sunderland away earlier in the season and I couldn't work out what formation we were playing half the time.

For me it's about a change of mentality more than a change of formation.

Have to agree there St Mike.

I was at that game too and couldn't for the life of me work out what formation we were playing.

3-6-1 / 3-4-3 I reckoned at the time

The tactic that day was simply give the ball to Johnson and let him run, it was dire stuff.

[aCe']

Personally i think we need a new system because the one we're using now doesnt quite work with Alonso gone.

It doesn't matter what formation you play when the team doesn't move off the ball.

We tend to play 2 or 3 different formations during games anyway. I went to Sunderland away earlier in the season and I couldn't work out what formation we were playing half the time.

For me it's about a change of mentality more than a change of formation.

You mean a change of manager... but i thought we had to make assumptions based on Benitez being here next season 

Change of mentality only comes after players start believing in the system... i dont think the current system with players like Lucas, Kuyt, Insua and Carragher being asked to perform the roles they do is EVER going to work unless big investments are made...

[stmichael]

Change of mentality only comes after players start believing in the system

What a load of baloney.

The entire staff at LFC have let themselves down this season, and you can go on about managerial formations all you like, it cannot disguise the player's lack of endeavour, skill, and discipline.

[peterc1992]

May I suggest something to the mods?

Anyone who insults our current manager by calling him and "idiot", a "waiter" or a "clown"  or something along those lines is deserving of an instant yellow card IMO. It's bang out of order to read such sh*te on a supposed LFC supporters forum. That is all.

Fair man.Sick of it.We are having a terrible season but we got a great manager on the books who is doing everything right except this season on the pitch.People seem to think that we should just sack him and that things will get better.We need to take it ssetp by step because we know we are good enough to be on top of europe again.Remeber the good times  rafa can get us there again  and the lack of respect he has from the fans even our fans is terrible.

[stmichael]

May I suggest something to the mods?

Anyone who insults our current manager by calling him and "idiot", a "waiter" or a "clown"  or something along those lines is deserving of an instant yellow card IMO. It's bang out of order to read such sh*te on a supposed LFC supporters forum. That is all.

i have been following that policy recently. big niall being the worst offender.

[aCe']

Change of mentality only comes after players start believing in the system

What a load of baloney.

The entire staff at LFC have let themselves down this season, and you can go on about managerial formations all you like, it cannot disguise the player's lack of endeavour, skill, and discipline.

Great then, why isnt Benitez going out there telling the players to give 100% rather than 50% ...

its a load of rubbish and you know it..

Players arent performing to their best abilities for a reason, they arent giving their all for a reason, we're having a sht season for a reason...

You cant just come out and say : hey wait a minute, if the players start playing 200% better then we'll start winning games...

As a manager, Benitez has failed to motivate his players to perform in the current system with his instructions, tactics..etc etc

You have players you would expect us to hugely depend on :

not playing:

Johnson (one of very few who can carry the ball and create something)

Riera ( balance down the left flank, helps in retaining possession in the opposition half, stretching defenses, and bringing other attacking players in the game)

Aquilani ( based on expectations no more, he was supposed to be the player we looked to pass the ball to in midfield to create attacking moves )

not performing:

Carragher ( our best CB, played out of position for a while.. when back in CB, he's had to deal with the extra pressure of covering a wider area because of the poor defensive awareness of the likes of Insua, Johnson, Skrtel.. not like Benitez didnt think about that or anything)

Lucas ( gotta feel sorry for the guy... Too much is being asked of him and he just doesnt have the ability to do the job expected of a player in his position.. Limits the sides creativity by only doing what he know how to do, which isnt much tbh )

Kuyt ( similar to Lucas in many ways.. You'll never get much in terms of creativity from him.. what you will get though is a few goals here and there and plenty of hard work... Given the setup though, you would want and expect a little more from a right winger especially with only 1 upfront.. )



With our current formation, we struggle to control the midfield, we struggle to create attacking moves... the players are not creating the spaces and its mostly down to limitations in their own abilities... as a manager, benitez should realize that and make decisions accordingly... would be nice if every player came out every weekend and gave 300% and the team ended up winning but you cant realistically expect it to happen or count on it...