Liverpool FC Forum

[bigmick]

This is just a snapshot of where we are. I'm not "changing my tune" as I think we have a good enough team to challenge for a champions league slot (not to get one though I fear), but to get into a situation where we have chances of winning the league is a long way off I think. The bunch of players we have simply aren't good enough IMHO, and with the looming rise of Gerrards age, the discontentment of Torres and Reina, whoever is the manager has an absolutely massive task.

Here's the squad through my eyes, not including millions of kids I've never heard of.


Reina-Top keeper but my feeling is he will leave soon for a big fee. This is not "Roy's fault" I don't think, it is modern football. Anyway whoevers fault it is, I think he will be offski soon. My guess is the manager (whoever it is) will have to find a top class keeper.

Brad Jones-I've never seen him play.

Glen Johnson-Top player on his day, but hasn't done it for us. My guess is he'll be moved on for a decent fee whihc will be 2/3 of what we paid for him. Managers task again is to replace him long term.

Martin kelly-Looks like a good prospect despite lacking pace. Will make lots of appearances in a red shirt IMHO.

Martin Skrtel-Decent, but unspectacular.

Kyriakos-Cult hero but as above.

Carragher-Our best defender but aging. Will need replacing soon.

Agger-May turn out to be a long term sickie. Will need replacing soon.

Konchesky-Decent but unspectacular. Will need replacing before long.

Fabio Aurelio-Always injured but a good player when fit.

Mereiles-Good player, but needs to show it more consistently. May turn out to be good enough longer term, but as a central midfielder? Needs to offer MUCH more to play as one of a two.

Gerrard-Fantastic player, but can't go on forever.

Lucas-Not good enough for a regualr berth IMHO.

Poulsen-As above.

Jovanovic-As above.

Cole-Disappointing so far, needs to offer MUCH more.

Maxi-Not good enough for a regular start in a top team IMHO.

Kuyt-Offers plenty, but needs good players around him for his industry to shine through.

Babel-Needs replacing.

N'Gog-I don't think he'll make it, but Ok just perhaps as a fourth choice.

Torres-Fantastic player but my head tells me he wants away. We'll get a huge fee, but he'll need replacing.

Pacheco-I don't think he'll make it in England.

Shelvey-I don't think he's good enough.

Spearing-As above.

Danny Wilson-Looked promising on his cameos earlier in the season. May make it.





I've probably forgot a couple. My read is though that we are going to have to replace the keeper soon (and we'll get lots of money in to do it), we are going to have to replace the right back (ditto). We need a top quality centre half (for which we are going to have to find money) and ditto a left back.

We are going to need someone to replace Gerrard before too long which will cost a fortune, and we are going to need at least one and probably two wide midfielders which aren't cheap.

Up top, I think we are going to have to replace all of Torres, Babel, Jovanovic and N'Gog. Torres we'll get a fortune for, but we'll not get a lot for the rest.






It's an absolutely massive task, and all this with very little coming through. Danny Welbeck was excellent for Sunderland yesterday against Chelsea, and he's ON LOAN from the Mancs as he can't get a look in. He is absolutely different class to BOTH of Babel and N'Gog IMHO, and that just about sums up how big our mountain is.   



DISCLAIMERS-I am not making excuses for Roy. As already stated, I think the players we have are good enough to challenge for the top four. If we don't, it is his fault. I think we should replace him anyway, as already stated many times.   

The thread is not about apportioning blame for where we are, it is about a big picture look at how far behind the top teams we are. It's a long way in my view.

[jacdaniel]

Good post Mick and i agree with lots of it.  I think this squad really needs 100M ASAP.  We need a few quality players in certain areas. 

In a way, i feel like we've gone back to 04/05.  Remember we were in a mess and Gerrard and Owen wanted out.  At the time, we were struggling to get in the top 4.  (and it wasn't so hard back then).
But we signed 2 very good players back then in Alonso and Garcia that made a huge difference.  Then Reina etc etc that ensured we had a strong team for a couple of years.

But unfortunately our previous owners couldn't provide funds to build on that and the team imploded.  Good players were replaced with worse players and so on.

So realistically, i think this team needs a 100M injection of cash before player sales.  We need to really strengthen our options in certain areas.

And i agree that we'll lose Reina and Torres.  Hopefully the funds we get can go towards buying quality players.  (although both are irreplaceable).

[stmichael]

In my opinion we still need five new players. A left back, a young aerially commanding centre half, a left winger, an attacking central midfielder and a striker.

As it currently stands our squad is about the sixth best in the premiership and that is where I think we'll finish. I think our first eleven can easily compete with anybody but overall the squad isn't good enough in terms of depth.

It's a weird season overall though. The Premiership is as weak as I can ever remember. There isn't an outstanding team and there's been some freak results with the likes of Bolton and Sunderland currently in European places. There isn't a hope in hell that an English team will win the CL this season imo. Barca and Real Madrid are streets ahead of everybody.

Any team that finds any consistency can shoot up the League. Unfortunately that doesn't look like being us. It's one step forward two steps back.

[only me]

Those are the players we can keep in my opinion.

Starting Line up: Torres,Gerrard,Reina
Rotating Squad player: Johnson ,Agger ,Soto ,Kelly,Meireles ,Cole ,Yovanovich,Ngog.

The rest should be sold.
As to youngsters i have no opinion as i haven't seen them play enough.

To summerize ,our situation is grimm but their is still hope ,we have only 3 dependeble players and 8 questionable that we could play with. We require at least 4-5 anchor players which deliver on a daily basis of which any manager can count on for the long run. With good scouting (which we desperetly lack in the past years) we could get them for ~50mil.

My take

[andy_g]

i'm not so sure we'll lose reina and torres myself, but keeping them is dependent on the timing of a statement of intent. i'd go along with your general assessment of the squad though, mick and we certainly need to strengthen in the areas we all know about. strengthening properly in these areas as soon as possible - i.e. january - is going to be the key to keeping our two key spaniards. if they love the club as much as they profess to they'll stick with it if we show genuine signs of progress and intent. for me the key signings are someone who can pull the strings from the middle of the pitch and someone who gives us a good outlet out wide. torres needs to be more in the game and this is the way to do it.

[stmichael]

the full backs are quite clearly the weakest area of the squad. infact i don't think i can remember us being so weak there. the fact that carra has had to play right back and left back already this season sums it up. failing that we end up with centre backs playing at full back in agger and kelly.

if you look at the turnover of full backs we've had in the last five years it's frightening. josemi, kronkamp, finnan, aurelio, dossena, insua, johnson, konchesky, warnock to name but a few. of those, only finnan and aurlio to a lesse extent can be classed as genuine successes.

[tubby]

The squad needs a massive injection of cash, something im not even sure NESV will do. There are rumors going around of a '35Mil warchest'. I understand they don't want to be seen to be getting ripped off but I seriously hope someone has had a word with them and said if you want to be pushing for the title in 5 years you need to put in a lot more than that. We essentially need to overtake City, Spurs and Arsenal and I don't think 35Million is going to do the job.

The transfer window can't come soon enough.

Id get in a new CB, and not an up and coming one, someone ready to go now, in fact we need 2 tbh. Carra's best days are passed him and Skrtel is a liability. With Agger increasingly looking like a long term sick note we really need someone ready to come in and help make that defence as solid as it was not so long ago. Id keep Johnson but deploy him as a winger. Emphasise his best attributes whilst minimising his flaws.

Konchesky is not good enough, but as we got rid Insua who at the very least made a decent backup we will probably have to keep hold of him. He is not 1st choice material though so someone else needs to come in. If we move Johnson forward we will need a new RB. Kelly is coming along nicely but we need another.

In midfield id get rid of Babel, Poulsen and Jovanovich and Spearing. And forget any 'we can raise this much for them' as we need to look past that. No more sell before you buy, that policy has effectively hampered us building any squad depth over the last 5 years. We need to splash out and in a big way. Alonso and Mascherano were never properly replaced. And how long has it been since we had some proper wingers bombing down the flanks?

Torres needs at least 1 other established partner sharing the burden up front. I think NGog would be a good 3rd choice so would hang onto him.

So all in all at a miniumum we need:

2 x CB
1 X LB
1 X RB
1 X CM
1 X RM
1 X LM
1 X ST


I don't know about the rest of you but we need a lot more than 35mil put into the first team. I don't expect us to spend so much during the Jan window but the summer will be the real time for re building. I just hope that John Henry isn't expecting any new manager to come in and challenge the top 4 with a budget less than what they spend. Money talks now and if you don't spend it you don't win things.

[SouthCoastShankly]

I agree with most of the sentiments here. But this sort of squad revolution is not going to happen in January.

The January transfer window is historically bad times to do business. Good players tend not to move clubs mid season leaving mostly mercenaries and out of favour players available.

Additionally those players not good enough and able to generate a decent (ish) transfer fee (Babel, Johnson, etc) will not get a decent valuation in January.

For me, the January transfer window is a time to spend 20-25m on two players - striker and an attacking midfielder. The rest has to wait till the summer.

[dawson99]

At a minimum we need 8 players.. simples

We need confidence, a few more players (striker, wingers, left back) and we need to go for it and remember who we are

[stmichael]

I agree with most of the sentiments here. But this sort of squad revolution is not going to happen in January.

The January transfer window is historically bad times to do business. Good players tend not to move clubs mid season leaving mostly mercenaries and out of favour players available.

Additionally those players not good enough and able to generate a decent (ish) transfer fee (Babel, Johnson, etc) will not get a decent valuation in January.

For me, the January transfer window is a time to spend 20-25m on two players - striker and an attacking midfielder. The rest has to wait till the summer.

The transfer window is a farce full stop. It's essentially a restraint of trade and should be abolished.

[aCe']

wow... Thats exactly what we shouldnt do imo... We should do our best to keep the likes of Torres, Reina, Johnson, and even Kuyt for an extra year.. We need some sort of continuity and to build on what we have rather than taking big chances on a largely changed squad...
I'm still certain the likes of Meireles, Aquilani, J.Cole, Johnson and Agger could be a part of a title chasing squad and with the undoubted quality of Gerrard, Torres and Reina we have a pretty solid platform to build on...

-I'd agree that Aggers injuries are cause for concern and even if they werent we're still a top CB and a LB short of having a quality back4... I expect to see the Greek gone by summer and replaced with a top CB (Mexes)..

-Down the middle we have Gerrard, J.Cole, Meireles, Aquilani (out on loan but still our player), Lucas,  and Poulsen.. We can probably do with replacing Lucas or preferably Poulsen (again mainly for continuity reasons) with a better quality defensive midfielder... 

- In terms of wingers we sadly lack any sort of quality in our ranks.. Kuyt can do a job at RW but we still need at least one natural winger in our side.. 2 wingers need to be signed as I expect to see Babel and Jovanovic wanting out by the end of the season...

- Upfront we have Torres and Ngog... Ideally, we'd sign 2 forwards to give us more options but given our preferred formation and the fact that players like Kuyt, and Pacheco could come in to do a job we could probably settle for one backup FW..

All in all, if we get the signings right then we shouldnt need more than 5 new players.. I'd honestly keep most of the players we have at the club today and perhaps only let the likes of : Babel, Skrtel, Jovanovic, Aurelio, and Poulsen leave
My personal wishlist of signings would include: David Luiz (CB), Coentrao (LB), Melo (CM), J.Mata (LW), Cassano (FW)

[andy_g]

comparing ourselves to the top 3, in terms of squad we are not so weak. chelsea have an ageing squad and we've seen that their strength in depth is about as bad as ours, they need to invest big and well soon. the mancs are rebuilding and are only staying near the top through their managers refusal to allow his team to give in. their youth coming through may or may not be as good as anyone else's. arsenal are going along as they always do and if chelsea and man u keep on stumbling might just get the title this year. man city have plenty of talent but refuse to be any good, spurs are building a tasty team but are also fragile and reliant on one or two star performers.

the core we have is good enough to keep us amongst them if they are managed and coached well. if we can get a midfield and some width working well with our attack then our defence will be less exposed and will be shown to be better than it currently looks. more and more its looking down to the correct choice of manager and a couple of astute signings. its also key that we do this before pepe and nando give up on the project once and for all and while gerrard still has legs.

[jacdaniel]

When do the new spending rules come into affect?  Might be worth spending a lot before then.

[tubby]

When do the new spending rules come into affect?  Might be worth spending a lot before then.

Next summer I think. Then we can only spend as much as we make.

I think JH is even quoted as saying these new regulations are half the reason he chose to buy the club. Thing is it's not such a bad idea if you had a squad already on par with the rest, but with us we need a rebuild and fast.

[Benny The Noon]

Things to do to break into the top 3

1. Change Manager

2. Keep Torres,Pepe,Agger,Carra,Cole,Lucas,Merelies,Kuyt,Jovanovic,Ngog,Soto,Johnson,Kelly,Shevely
,Wilson

3.Sell Skrtel,Konchesky,Babel,Poulsen,Maxi

4.Buy Lb,CB,Right Mid,Left Mid,Creative Mid and Striker