Liverpool FC Forum

[Sir Roger]

Im still struggling to think wether or not he is being serious and this is a serious thread or not

GYBS
I wont insult you

Its a serious thread about how I believe our game can be improved
Think about it

The main objective of football is to put the ball in the oppositions net more times than they put it in yours. There are various advantages in the game:
Penalties
Goal Kicks
Free kicks
Corners
Throw ins

Im not saying a throw-in is as advantageous as a penalty, a corner or even a free kick (though like has been said some teams use it as a weapon)
What I am saying is that in a course of a game, if the were to constanly give the ball away through passes people would get frustrated and angry.
However this doesnt seem to happen with throw -ins.
In fact many have said they dont even notice it.

Heres the challenge:
In the next couple of games count how many times we win a throw in and what happens as a result of it.
It may open your eyes...

[stmichael]

Our set pieces are abysmal full stop and have been for ages. I still don't understand why Gerrard takes them.

[GYBS]

Sorry but i will pass on doing that .

[GYBS]

Our set pieces are abysmal full stop and have been for ages. I still don't understand why Gerrard takes them.

Now that is a totally different matter and something very worthwhile we should improve on . Xabi should be taking corners and certain free kicks . Gerrards delivery on the main is poor when it comes to set pieces. Even yossis delivery is better .

[Sir Roger]

Sorry but i will pass on doing that .

Fair enough
But you heard it here first

[Owzat]

In the next couple of games count how many times we win a throw in and what happens as a result of it.
It may open your eyes...

I think his eyes will need to be open to do the counting....................

[GYBS]

I think if i did the counting i would forget to watch the action as my mind would be scrambled thinking about the throw ins   

[Owzat]

I think if i did the counting i would forget to watch the action as my mind would be scrambled thinking about the throw ins   

I do very occaisionally watch individuals, Beckham and Crouch are two I've watched.

Beckham against Greece - eight free-kicks, the eighth was the one he scored and the first to either reach the goal or be on target ie the rest hit the wall or missed the goal

Crouch I watched carefully because I was hearing how fantastic he was at holding the ball up etc as the target man. Far from it, most of the time he flicked it on to nobody, gave away a foul or lost it if he did control it. He hasn't the pace to turn and beat anyone so best he ever did was pass it square or backwards - admittedly sometimes it was quite good, for the 1/3 or less of the time we retained possession*. Stand a yard of Crouch and he'll either foul you, you can nick it off his feet or he'll do nothing harmful with it.

*DISCLAIMER : that is applied to the games I watched Crouch carefully, that is not to say I'm applying it across the board to every game he ever played or plays. I have seen him recently get flicks on the ball that have resulted in a goal, not through any significant change of direction imparted by Crouch's head so how much credit to give him or that tactic is debatable - kinda like giving an assist to someone fouled in the box who was going nowhere

[heimdall]

Sorry but i will pass on doing that .

yeah might reveal a fault in our team, can't do that eh GYBS.

I completely agree with you Sir Roger, we are generally very poor at set pieces but in general most teams do not make the most of set pieces and it is a puzzle. Actually tactics in football in quite often very 1 dimensional and everyone gasps when there is a bit of invention from a free kick like having a player run onto a lobbed or scooped freekick etc. I don't understand why coaches don't spend more time on this area, like for instance they do in American football etc. I am sure it would be worth a few extra goals a season if not more and would certainly scare the out of the opposition defence more so than just blasting the shot into the wall or way over the bar or back to the topic throwing the ball predictably to the nearest defender or those fecking annoying short corners which we do all the time!!   

[heimdall]

I think if i did the counting i would forget to watch the action as my mind would be scrambled thinking about the throw ins   

I do very occaisionally watch individuals, Beckham and Crouch are two I've watched.

Beckham against Greece - eight free-kicks, the eighth was the one he scored and the first to either reach the goal or be on target ie the rest hit the wall or missed the goal

Crouch I watched carefully because I was hearing how fantastic he was at holding the ball up etc as the target man. Far from it, most of the time he flicked it on to nobody, gave away a foul or lost it if he did control it. He hasn't the pace to turn and beat anyone so best he ever did was pass it square or backwards - admittedly sometimes it was quite good, for the 1/3 or less of the time we retained possession*. Stand a yard of Crouch and he'll either foul you, you can nick it off his feet or he'll do nothing harmful with it.

*DISCLAIMER : that is applied to the games I watched Crouch carefully, that is not to say I'm applying it across the board to every game he ever played or plays. I have seen him recently get flicks on the ball that have resulted in a goal, not through any significant change of direction imparted by Crouch's head so how much credit to give him or that tactic is debatable - kinda like giving an assist to someone fouled in the box who was going nowhere

I watched Babel in the Real Madrid game and noticed his work rate and effort being a bit less than the other players, I then posted about it and everyone disagreed with me so I don't think I'll bother doing that again. 

[GYBS]

Sorry but i will pass on doing that .

yeah might reveal a fault in our team, can't do that eh GYBS.

I completely agree with you Sir Roger, we are generally very poor at set pieces but in general most teams do not make the most of set pieces and it is a puzzle. Actually tactics in football in quite often very 1 dimensional and everyone gasps when there is a bit of invention from a free kick like having a player run onto a lobbed or scooped freekick etc. I don't understand why coaches don't spend more time on this area, like for instance they do in American football etc. I am sure it would be worth a few extra goals a season if not more and would certainly scare the out of the opposition defence more so than just blasting the shot into the wall or way over the bar or back to the topic throwing the ball predictably to the nearest defender or those fecking annoying short corners which we do all the time!!   

Your mainly talking about free kicks and the such which is something i have already commented on as being not good enough . Throwing the ball to the nearest defender is a method to keeping possesion and something pretty much every single team does . only other throw ins you get are ones that get thrown into the box for someone to nod on - worthless for us or a quick one - when that option is open . Free kicks and corners are practised during coaching as they give you time to set yourself up to attack or defend them - throw ins on the other hand prob arent really worked that much on as there isnt really much work you can do unless you have a long throw in specialist.

And you cant compare American Football to anything to do with real football .

[Scottbot]

My best answer is that Ive noticed it for years
I understand how people have not noticed it because throw-ins in most part of the pitch are seen as innocuous or trivial. My point is that we give possession away too easily from alot of them every game.
Yet other teams seem to think of them as important and a way to keep possession and build up to a goal.
Is that not the basic essence of football?

But what have you actually noticed? It's a bit of an ambiguous thread starter and I think you need to be nore specific. are you saying we should be more dangerous from throw-ins? That we don't get upset enough when they don't go our way? That other teams craft goal scoring opportunities from them and we don't?

If you watch the top teams, most throw-ins are simple feet-and-backs and play from there. If the throw-in is anywhere but the final third they are generally un-pressurised. If you watch/play Saturday and Sunday league football, a big deal is made of 'boxing in' the other team if they have a throw-in deep within their own half but that doesn't even happen in top flight football. Premier league defenses don't (for the most part) get caught out by anything imaginitive, tricky or attacking from throw-ins so i'm not sure what you are suggesting we lack? I (like a couple of other posters) cannot recall us blowing posession from throw-ins.

[Owzat]

I thought Babel was scared to run at his defender against Real, seemed to want to pass the ball more. Whether on instruction or what I don't know. It was ideally set up for someone to run the defence, Torres was getting good change out of their defence and the spaces, as was Gerrard. Then he did decide to run the defender and set up Torres.

Not sure I agree on the work rate as he did look as if he was trying at times. My point is often with players like Babel and Benayoun that they ain't very good at tackling so can often just give away free-kicks and we don't defend them very well. Perhaps better they stay wide to give our defenders an out option, also try to keep their full-backs busy, a bit like the theory about leaving two or three men up when defending a corner so the opposition have to either mark them or get hit on the counter. In fact I seem to recall Babel picking up a ball in our half and running on the counter, probably a bit too deep to be like Walnut against us in the QFs last season, but with options (wish I could remember if we got far, lost possession or what)

[Ace Ventura]

Cant see any problem with this thread.

I wouldnt say its something that i have noticed alot, but can see why someone would discuss it.

Players do seem to appeal all the time for throw ins and then we dont really take much care or try anything different often enough.

I am not advocating long throws into the area, more players movement when we win a throw, a quick positive run into a dangerous area could help unlock stubborn defences etc.

It seems that throw ins are just stoppages in the game that we then just throw the ball backwards most of the time, the odd variation with this could help...you never know.

[GYBS]

How much variation can you get from a throw in thou mate unless you have a long throw specialist in your team ? yeah you can throw in the odd quick one when there is an option on , its not like you can do anything fancy with them or anything tricky to unlock a defence - its used in the main to get the game going again and to get you possession after the oppo has kicked the ball out . Most player appeal to gain the advanatge of getting the ball and keeping possession . its not like a free kick or a corner where you can work out routines .