Liverpool FC Forum

[LFC2007]

In which case, you would advocate a change of manager as soon as is physically possible.

No I wouldn't advocate changing the manager as soon as is physically possible. Changing the manager in January would be ridiculous IMHO. The thought of a new man coming in and having a couple of days to prepare for the next game is not what is needed.

No, Rafa needs to go till the end of the season and see where we are, after all if you want to have a good go at the Champions League you couldn't get anyone better than him that's for sure.

If he has a road to Damascus moment between now and the end of the season and manages to convince the powers that be that we aren't about to revisit the "Rafa style" next season they may well give him another go. My opinion on the matter is entirely irrelavent, but in the unlikely event that anybody is interested I don't think we are about to get such a moment of revelation, and even if we did it's need to be pretty convincing for me to advocate another year.

In the meantime Jose Mourinho may be snapped up by another club, Bayern I hear are interested. I'm sure he'll want to be at another club a.s.a.p., or he'll at least be looking to set up a deal for him to take over a club in the summer.

He is the only manager currently available who has proven Premier League experience, outside of that you have managers who are just as unproven as Rafa in this division, and just as great a risk.

Time is of the essence is it not?

[NANNY RED]

In which case, you would advocate a change of manager as soon as is physically possible.

No I wouldn't advocate changing the manager as soon as is physically possible. Changing the manager in January would be ridiculous IMHO. The thought of a new man coming in and having a couple of days to prepare for the next game is not what is needed.

No, Rafa needs to go till the end of the season and see where we are, after all if you want to have a good go at the Champions League you couldn't get anyone better than him that's for sure.

If he has a road to Damascus moment between now and the end of the season and manages to convince the powers that be that we aren't about to revisit the "Rafa style" next season they may well give him another go. My opinion on the matter is entirely irrelavent, but in the unlikely event that anybody is interested I don't think we are about to get such a moment of revelation, and even if we did it's need to be pretty convincing for me to advocate another year.

In the meantime Jose Mourinho may be snapped up by another club, Bayern I hear are interested. I'm sure he'll want to be at another club a.s.a.p., or he'll at least be looking to set up a deal for him to take over a club in the summer.

He is the only manager currently available who has proven Premier League experience, outside of that you have managers who are just as unproven as Rafa in this division, and just as great a risk.

Time is of the essence is it not?

But could he win the EPL with no open cheque book?

[LFC2007]

In which case, you would advocate a change of manager as soon as is physically possible.

No I wouldn't advocate changing the manager as soon as is physically possible. Changing the manager in January would be ridiculous IMHO. The thought of a new man coming in and having a couple of days to prepare for the next game is not what is needed.

No, Rafa needs to go till the end of the season and see where we are, after all if you want to have a good go at the Champions League you couldn't get anyone better than him that's for sure.

If he has a road to Damascus moment between now and the end of the season and manages to convince the powers that be that we aren't about to revisit the "Rafa style" next season they may well give him another go. My opinion on the matter is entirely irrelavent, but in the unlikely event that anybody is interested I don't think we are about to get such a moment of revelation, and even if we did it's need to be pretty convincing for me to advocate another year.

In the meantime Jose Mourinho may be snapped up by another club, Bayern I hear are interested. I'm sure he'll want to be at another club a.s.a.p., or he'll at least be looking to set up a deal for him to take over a club in the summer.

He is the only manager currently available who has proven Premier League experience, outside of that you have managers who are just as unproven as Rafa in this division, and just as great a risk.

Time is of the essence is it not?

But could he win the EPL with no open cheque book?

I'm relatively pro-Rafa Nanny and those aren't my views, I'm just floating ideas, having read Mick's post. The next logical step, from the 'Rafa's methods will never work in the EPL' brigade would be to try and secure Mourinho as our manager a.s.a.p in light of the fact that he is available now, and may well not be in the summer. That particular brigade (one of many brigades on this forum) view Mourinho as the surefire route to take - they believe he is as good as we could possibly find to suit our requirements i.e. to win the EPL.

[account deleted by request]

I am not a "in Rafa we trust" believer but I think he deserves better than to be discussing his successor with half the season left. We arn't Newcastle. Give him till the end of the season, and then we can assess his performance.

[NANNY RED]

In which case, you would advocate a change of manager as soon as is physically possible.

No I wouldn't advocate changing the manager as soon as is physically possible. Changing the manager in January would be ridiculous IMHO. The thought of a new man coming in and having a couple of days to prepare for the next game is not what is needed.

No, Rafa needs to go till the end of the season and see where we are, after all if you want to have a good go at the Champions League you couldn't get anyone better than him that's for sure.

If he has a road to Damascus moment between now and the end of the season and manages to convince the powers that be that we aren't about to revisit the "Rafa style" next season they may well give him another go. My opinion on the matter is entirely irrelavent, but in the unlikely event that anybody is interested I don't think we are about to get such a moment of revelation, and even if we did it's need to be pretty convincing for me to advocate another year.

In the meantime Jose Mourinho may be snapped up by another club, Bayern I hear are interested. I'm sure he'll want to be at another club a.s.a.p., or he'll at least be looking to set up a deal for him to take over a club in the summer.

He is the only manager currently available who has proven Premier League experience, outside of that you have managers who are just as unproven as Rafa in this division, and just as great a risk.

Time is of the essence is it not?

But could he win the EPL with no open cheque book?

I'm relatively pro-Rafa Nanny and those aren't my views, I'm just floating ideas, having read Mick's post. The next logical step, from the 'Rafa's methods will never work in the EPL' brigade would be to try and secure Mourinho as our manager a.s.a.p in light of the fact that he is available now, and may well not be in the summer. That particular brigade (one of many brigades on this forum) view Mourinho as the surefire route to take - they believe he is as good as we could possibly find to suit our requirements i.e. to win the EPL.

Iwould actualy love to see Mourinio take charge of another prem club, Not US never , just to see how well he did perform as this master tactician without a bottomless pit of money.
Some how i dont think many people would be calling him the special one for long . He would just be an ordinary prem manager imo

[LFC2007]

I am not a "in Rafa we trust" believer but I think he deserves better than to be discussing his successor with half the season left. We arn't Newcastle. Give him till the end of the season, and then we can assess his performance.

The brigadier general believes that we will not achieve a title challenge this season, and that with the methods Rafa employs we will never achieve a title challenge. Given that he also views the likelihood of Rafa altering his methods to be 'zero', the next logical step from their standpoint would be to find a manager they believe can mount a title challenge - that man in their view has to be Jose Mourinho.

[LFC2007]

In which case, you would advocate a change of manager as soon as is physically possible.

No I wouldn't advocate changing the manager as soon as is physically possible. Changing the manager in January would be ridiculous IMHO. The thought of a new man coming in and having a couple of days to prepare for the next game is not what is needed.

No, Rafa needs to go till the end of the season and see where we are, after all if you want to have a good go at the Champions League you couldn't get anyone better than him that's for sure.

If he has a road to Damascus moment between now and the end of the season and manages to convince the powers that be that we aren't about to revisit the "Rafa style" next season they may well give him another go. My opinion on the matter is entirely irrelavent, but in the unlikely event that anybody is interested I don't think we are about to get such a moment of revelation, and even if we did it's need to be pretty convincing for me to advocate another year.

In the meantime Jose Mourinho may be snapped up by another club, Bayern I hear are interested. I'm sure he'll want to be at another club a.s.a.p., or he'll at least be looking to set up a deal for him to take over a club in the summer.

He is the only manager currently available who has proven Premier League experience, outside of that you have managers who are just as unproven as Rafa in this division, and just as great a risk.

Time is of the essence is it not?

But could he win the EPL with no open cheque book?

I'm relatively pro-Rafa Nanny and those aren't my views, I'm just floating ideas, having read Mick's post. The next logical step, from the 'Rafa's methods will never work in the EPL' brigade would be to try and secure Mourinho as our manager a.s.a.p in light of the fact that he is available now, and may well not be in the summer. That particular brigade (one of many brigades on this forum) view Mourinho as the surefire route to take - they believe he is as good as we could possibly find to suit our requirements i.e. to win the EPL.

Iwould actualy love to see Mourinio take charge of another prem club, Not US never , just to see how well he did perform as this master tactician without a bottomless pit of money.
Some how i dont think many people would be calling him the special one for long . He would just be an ordinary prem manager imo

I agree, but to a limited extent. He is a top-class manager, his record bears that out. He managed to win the UCL on a relatively sparing budget at Porto, and dominated domestically. I certainly think it would have taken him significantly longer to win the EPL with Chelsea, had he not been privy to a blank cheque, and had he not inherited a squad flush with quality, expensive players.

[NANNY RED]

[ He managed to win the UCL on a relatively sparing budget at Porto, and dominated domestically. I certainly think it would have taken him significantly longer to win the EPL with Chelsea, had he not been privy to a blank cheque, and had he not inherited a squad flush with quality, expensive players.

But thats my point to some on here Rafa did the same in Spain breaking the Barca . Madrid stonghold on a limited budget and i would certaily class that league far superior than the portugese one. And as you say he had a bottomless pit of money at Chelsea
Ok i cant denay he his a good manager (im choking here) but i donot think he is better than Rafa and would suddenly win us the prem like some seem to think so. I dont  think he can suddenly make  Gerrard. Carra ,Alonso and Torres and ill say Masherano better players these players are already established some of them world beaters but who tend to let themselves down from time to time.

Right im ramblin so ill shut up

[The Manhattan Project]

I hope Jose stays unattached to a club until May.

Because by the end of the season, we can assess Rafa's performance and prospects.

If we haven't made progress, he should go and we should get Mourinho.

[Igor Zidane]

In which case, you would advocate a change of manager as soon as is physically possible.

No I wouldn't advocate changing the manager as soon as is physically possible. Changing the manager in January would be ridiculous IMHO. The thought of a new man coming in and having a couple of days to prepare for the next game is not what is needed.

No, Rafa needs to go till the end of the season and see where we are, after all if you want to have a good go at the Champions League you couldn't get anyone better than him that's for sure.

If he has a road to Damascus moment between now and the end of the season and manages to convince the powers that be that we aren't about to revisit the "Rafa style" next season they may well give him another go. My opinion on the matter is entirely irrelavent, but in the unlikely event that anybody is interested I don't think we are about to get such a moment of revelation, and even if we did it's need to be pretty convincing for me to advocate another year.

The thing is mick , rafa isn't going to change , not this season or the next or ever. So your not going to get what you want ie less rotation ,tinkering with formations blah blah blah. I've said all along that rotation does and will work if you have a quality squad and not just a quality 11 . I had hoped that the squad was of sufficient quality to sustain a title challange , it doesn't look like it is . The problem i have is not the way we have been playing ,but we are simply not taking our chances. There's noone else to take the burden of Gerrard and Torres , except for crouch possibly but he's not getting a game much.

If we'd have taken a few of our good chances that we should have ,we would have collected the points and all in the garden would be rosie. I firmly believe that there's not much wrong with the way we are playing ,we're just not taking our chances . I will not concede the title until theres no chance of winning it . If by some far of chance we can buy another class forward ,then i believe we will be a lot closer to utd and arsenal come the end of the season.  Once again imo it's not about rotation ,it's about quality. The season is half over and we'er 12pts behind with a game in hand . THe fat lady is not singing just yet.

[NANNY RED]

In which case, you would advocate a change of manager as soon as is physically possible.

No I wouldn't advocate changing the manager as soon as is physically possible. Changing the manager in January would be ridiculous IMHO. The thought of a new man coming in and having a couple of days to prepare for the next game is not what is needed.

No, Rafa needs to go till the end of the season and see where we are, after all if you want to have a good go at the Champions League you couldn't get anyone better than him that's for sure.

If he has a road to Damascus moment between now and the end of the season and manages to convince the powers that be that we aren't about to revisit the "Rafa style" next season they may well give him another go. My opinion on the matter is entirely irrelavent, but in the unlikely event that anybody is interested I don't think we are about to get such a moment of revelation, and even if we did it's need to be pretty convincing for me to advocate another year.

The thing is mick , rafa isn't going to change , not this season or the next or ever. So your not going to get what you want ie less rotation ,tinkering with formations blah blah blah. I've said all along that rotation does and will work if you have a quality squad and not just a quality 11 . I had hoped that the squad was of sufficient quality to sustain a title challange , it doesn't look like it is . The problem i have is not the way we have been playing ,but we are simply not taking our chances. There's noone else to take the burden of Gerrard and Torres , except for crouch possibly but he's not getting a game much.

If we'd have taken a few of our good chances that we should have ,we would have collected the points and all in the garden would be rosie. I firmly believe that there's not much wrong with the way we are playing ,we're just not taking our chances . I will not concede the title until theres no chance of winning it . If by some far of chance we can buy another class forward ,then i believe we will be a lot closer to utd and arsenal come the end of the season.  Once again imo it's not about rotation ,it's about quality. The season is half over and we'er 12pts behind with a game in hand . THe fat lady is not singing just yet.

Great post Igor

[bigmick]

I am not a "in Rafa we trust" believer but I think he deserves better than to be discussing his successor with half the season left. We arn't Newcastle. Give him till the end of the season, and then we can assess his performance.

The brigadier general believes that we will not achieve a title challenge this season, and that with the methods Rafa employs we will never achieve a title challenge.

Brigadier General? Oh dear. I see we are back into this tedious routine of asking the same question over and over again with a slightly different slant each time.

Just to clarify once and for all and for the last time on this particular point, no I don't think we should sack the manager "as soon as is physically possible". I'm not even advocating that we should sack the manager at all, I'd prefer to wait till the end of the season and assess the situation then. As for Mourinho, my understanding is that he's not available as of now because of a clause in his severence deal.

Like I say, that is my final word on that particular subject (as no doubt LFC will conjure up a new wording for the same question), although I do grudgingly admire the attempts by some who called the rotation debate complately, sheerly and utterly wrong from the get go to switch the focus into another area. If people think that Rafa ought to be sacked, why don't they just say so rather than trying desperately to get me to say so? It's very odd, particularly given my stance on that subject has been as entirely consistent as my stance on the rotation issue   

 

[66-1112520797]

I sort of agree with S@int on this and to an extent Mick, firstly we shouldnt be discussing Rafa's successor half way through the season.

Secondly I think we should take stock of the situation come May.

  In saying that if Rafa were to be given the boot, Mourinhio who I cannot stand as a person would be a great replacment, he is a good manager. Another choice of mine would by Guus Hiddink, I think he's a great tactician and can seemingly work miracles with what he has got.

[66-1112520797]

I can't really argue with you Mick, fair play you seem to have called it just about right. What will you say next season if the new manager or Rafa( in the unlikely event) ,don't rotate and we still don't sustain any sort of challenge though? Will it be the players and maybe you were wrong all along? (I am grasping at straws now mate  )

It's an interesting question Saint but unfortunately we'll never really get an answer. Whoever is the manager next season will surely buy some more players and ship out a couple so it won't actually be the same team we are comparing.

If for instance the manager was Rafa and he replaced Kuyt with David Villa, then I have no doubts that rotation or not we would improve by quite a bit. Similarly, if Mourinho came in as manager and brought in Samuel Eto, if he played the same team every week and we improved it would be more down to better players than a system.

It just frustrates and maddens me to be perfectly honest. If the anti's are proven right then so the feck what? Who cares at the end of the day? What's more important is that we've gone another season without winning the League, despite (IMHO anyway) having a bunch of players who are good enough to go very close.

While we haven't got the money the other big four have got, it's worth remembering we have probably the best striker in the League (bought by Rafa of course). We've got the best central midfield in the league and probably the best midfielder in Gerrard. We've got the best goalie in the league (bought by Rafa) as well as a rock solid defence. Given all this, surely we are capable of making a better fist of it than we have. Our challenge has never really got off the ground despite a really easy first half of the season, all the while rotating players so they'll be fit and sharp on the run-in.

Like I say, it's so fecking annoying it's untrue. We've got the best striker in the League who is all about pace, movement, anticipation and skill. We've got another bloke who has scored loads of golas for England, and quite a lot for Liverpool. He plays the game in a totally different way to our star striker, but still offers a goal threat. We've never though given them a chance to play together, to form a partnership. We sit Crouch on his erse for months on end, give him an hour with Torres and say "nah it don't work". We chop and change the formation willy nilly, moving the full backs and the wide players in and out with gay abandon and then wonder why we lack fluency out wide. It's all Ok while we're going well, it looks good but the minute we lkose one or have a bad performance, feck me we have a bliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiip which last six fecking weeks.

I really do believe Saint that with this group of players, the strongest or very close to it team playing in most matches of the league and the first three games of the Champions League group games, we'd be seven or eight points better off than we are and right in the mix.

Of course THE most annoying thing of all is that we're likely to finish so far back that even challenging for it next season is going to be a mountain to climb. Finish close (with five or six points away) this season and it's a small step to get there. Finish well back and it's back to square one.

The debate on rotation is over for me, the anger at the sheer stupidity of the whole fecking thing gets worse as the season goes on.

My sentiments exactly there Micky boy.

Last season our title challenge was hindered not because of rotation apparently, but the "hard run of fixture's " at the start of the season, WTF ?

So far this season we've had an easy first half of seasonal fixtures, and we were all saying this during the summer. About getting a good start.

Come January were 12 points behind the league leaders with Chelsea, ManU, Arsenal all away yet. Last season the pro's tried to convince us it was this terrible fixture list OMG, now they've moved the goal posts again this season. Not looking to point the finger at Rafa, its because we've got all these injuries. Blinkered fools IMO, I largely blame Rafa's rotation for this, and his critical buys in Kuyt, Voronin, Babel and Yossi.

The last two players I do like but Ryan Babel is going to need to take time to settle in, there aint going to be no immediate (Torres) impact with him. And Yossi is a decent player but he's hardly going to spearhead the match winning charts along with Torres and Gerrard.

People say Voronin was free, kin ell I'd rather the club spend the money on a decent one instead trying to be cheap nasty and astute by claiming he's a free-bee.

Kuyt, Rafa has stuck with him the most and 10 million for me has gone straight down the swan-e. But the bloke gets more playing time than Crouch and is IMHO uselss and in-effective.
And we're all wondering why we cant kill teams off.

[ruskiy playmaker]

I just don't understand why do some people want Mourinho at Liverpool.  I like Rafa, but if he left Liverpool I would want a loyal manager who could stay here for a long time to create his own style of football and to develop the youth system.  I feel what this club needs is a young talented manager. not a Mourinho or a Lippi but someone like a young Ferguson or Wenger.  These types of people are very hard to find, but I bet not many people knew about Wenger before he joined Arsenal.