Liverpool FC Forum

[ConnO'var]

Well, Robbie is a tinsy bit biased seeing that he absolutely hates Gary Neville.

You think?

Robbie definitely had his red-tinted glasses on with cross hairs in the right lens and neville name on it.

But you got admit.... he's not wrong is he?

Carra down on the pecking order for English centrebacks? Sven, you have to be out of you freakin' MIND!

[red_guy]

Robbie's right. My friend  prefer Carra over ferdinand and he's a geniune Manc. There's something wrong with Sven. He should be a beauty contest judge instead of being an england manager. He's got an eye for women not football. And if i'm not mistaken, Gerrard played as a holding midfielder against Paraguay and fat frank in attacking role. Why would anybody bother putting a fat midfielder to play in an attacking role? The result? Crappy game for England. yup, i know we all care more about Liverpool, no country or club could top that but witnessing great liverpool players had to make way for mediocre players is definitely frustrating.

[2520years]

Rio's a loose cannon and Sol's lost the plot.  I can't understand why it isn't Terry and Carra at the back.  Some say it's down to lack of pace - Sol is quick and Rio recovers well (usually after his own mistakes) - and I can accept that.  However, defending isn't only about pace - we can all name excellent centre-halves who've not been that quick.  Overall, I'd go for reliability because we have to make the strikers do something special to create a chance.  Look at Liverpool's defensive record last season and bear in mind Carra was the quicker of the two central defenders.  I'd hate to attack against Terry and Carra, but with Rio and Sol I'd always be interested because I know they'll probably give me a chance.  I'd play Neville at right back (even though he's so hateful) because of his understanding with Beckham, but I'd play Carra in the middle.  If the tactics suited, I'd have no hesitation in asking him to play the holding midfield role either.

I know Robbie is biased, but that doesn't mean he's wrong.

[tubby]

Im sure Jamie will get his chance although it is surpirsing not to see him start as he is so much more versatile than Neville.

You only have to look at Beckham to know that Sven likes his favourates.

[Big Niall]

Garry Neville is a very good right back as is Ashley Cole on the left (despite the poor game). Carragher is not an international class full back. I would have him ahead of Ferdinand though. At this stage though, Terry and Ferdinand have played a lot together and Sven probably thinks it is too late to introduce Carragher. I think Campbell is ahead of him in Svens thoughts.

[ivor_the_injun]

My assessment is that Rio's best performance would probably beat Carra's best performance, but over 6 or 7 games Rio will make plenty more mistakes. Rio will get caught in possession and misplace passes over the course of a tournament, but Carra will never let England down. He keeps it simple, and that's why LFC's defence is so strong. It's when players at the back start f*cking about that teams get into trouble.

From a coach's point of view, Carra is perfect as back up right across the back 4. Other than left back (where Wayne Bridge is the tailor-made squad replacement for Ashley Cole), Carra is almost certainly next in line should injuries hit. Rio had a poor season, and has been lucky to put in solid performances at the right times as far as his first 11 spot is concerned.

It'll be very interesting to see who Steve McLaren opts for in his first game.

[ivor_the_injun]

Incidentally, there are newsroom whispers doing the rounds that Gary Neville is going to retire from international football after the World Cup.

[Good Bob]

My assessment is that Rio's best performance would probably beat Carra's best performance, but over 6 or 7 games Rio will make plenty more mistakes. Rio will get caught in possession and misplace passes over the course of a tournament, but Carra will never let England down. He keeps it simple, and that's why LFC's defence is so strong. It's when players at the back start f*cking about that teams get into trouble.

From a coach's point of view, Carra is perfect as back up right across the back 4. Other than left back (where Wayne Bridge is the tailor-made squad replacement for Ashley Cole), Carra is almost certainly next in line should injuries hit. Rio had a poor season, and has been lucky to put in solid performances at the right times as far as his first 11 spot is concerned.

It'll be very interesting to see who Steve McLaren opts for in his first game.

He's had a poor season?

Ivor, come on lad, i respect your posts normally but come on.

All i'm gonna say is mate, Silvestre, Vidic, Brown, Neville, and the protection from there midfield... Hardly inspiring is it?

Yet they still keep ALOT of clean sheets and are difficult to score against. Baring in mind they were missing there second best defender nearly all season (Heinze) and are still good at the back I think we should dismiss this silly notion Ferdinand is a bad player.

[ivor_the_injun]

I stand by it. There are several examples from last season where situations resulting in goals against Man U started from a Rio Ferdinand error.

His defensive performances were better from around the turn of the year, but his ball-carrying ambitions do let him down time and time again.

Some of the situations where he was caught out of position I will gladly put down to him worrying about the quality of his team-mates, but misplacing a 10 yard pass when you're in your own half (and there are dozens of examples of this) is criminal. Ditto trying to dribble out of your own area when you've successfully defended a corner, when there are scores of opposing players around you. Again, there are dozens of examples of this.

Like I say, Carra is a safe player, and as such he isn't ambitious with his passing. If he comes out with the ball in defensive areas and space to start an attack isn't there, he'll hoof it. In these regards, Rio's decision making is very suspect for me, and although he is very capable of delivering a good weight of ball, he'd be a far better player if he cut out some of the fancy stuff and tried to start attacks via a short passing game going with his neighbouring defenders. Putting snow on it instead of attempting audacious twists and turns wouldn't do him any f*cking harm, either.

I'm not suggesting that he's a bad player, just that by simplifying some of the more extravagant elements of his game he'd be a hell of a lot more reliable. At the moment, he gets the ball in England's half and I worry.

[Good Bob]

You're completely over looking the fact he sets goals up aswell. There was numurous times last season where he'd get the ball and start attacks, there was even a move in a game where he started the attack and nearly finished it with a headed chance, he missed his header however and Saha burried it. Can't remember the game. No player is without his faults, for me, on his day he's the best in the world. I'm no United fan, i can't stand the and i am made up chelsea dick them when the play them.

But i just find it incredibley naive when people sit there and say he's not a great player. He proved in the last world cup just how good he actually is. He'll do it again this time, against Paraguay he was solid and i expect him to improve further. John Terry will be found wanting in this tournement and if you played Carragher in there with him if would be a disaster waiting to happen. Neither are international class players, never have been and never ever will be.

[ivor_the_injun]

Rio was awesome in the 2002 World Cup. Absolutely no doubt about that. Quite why Sol Campbell got into the "team of the tournament" and not him I have no idea.

I also take your point that part of his game is setting up goals.

However, he's a defender, and as such I judge him primarily on his defending. He's excellent in the air, he's good on the deck, he's pacey, strong, physical and basically he's got everything he needs for the position that he plays. Unfortunately, he's also a f*cking flash b*stard. Sometimes I watch him and it looks like he's listened to every single nice word that's ever been said about him without taking on any of the criticism.

I know you're no great lover of John Terry, but I'm actually a big fan of his, and it's because he gets right everything that Rio gets wrong. He's got EXACTLY the right approach in terms of starting it simple from the back and worrying about trying something a bit more complicated once cover's there, and he's got the space to get away with it. He's not as good with the ball at his feet, but he's generally the more solid defender of the two. He's also a player that's still getting better, whereas I feel Ferdinand will never again be as good as he was 4 years ago.

I think it's safe to say that, over the last year, Rio Ferdinand would have got the England team into a hell of a lot more trouble for some of the faults I've already mentioned were it not for the interventions of John Terry in cleaning up his mess.

[taff]

I disagree there. I reckon Terry and Carragher are players on the top of their game at the moment and that is an important factor.  I agree with your assesment of Rio and Neville is the obvious right back mainly for his understanding with Beckham.

Campbell just hasnt had a stable season and Im surprised he was included to be honest.

For a world cup of x amount games I would go with the players on top of their game and that would be carragher and Terry. 

I know where your coming from but I do think that in a tournament like this those two would give you the vocal command and motivation that you need to go through the whole team

[vlady16.1]

i guess this is where the philosophies part-- carra is way better on defense but gives little in attack-- rio gives alot of attack and often leads the breakout

rio also makes heinous errors on defense and if his offensive capabilities are off he is a liability

carra is solid as a rock and his game rarely varies

with cole gerrard lampart and beckham as midfield, i'd err on the side of safety but sven seems to choose on reputation not current form so in goes rio-- i hope he doesn't have one of his bad games that could be terrible

[Good Bob]

I disagree there. I reckon Terry and Carragher are players on the top of their game at the moment and that is an important factor.  I agree with your assesment of Rio and Neville is the obvious right back mainly for his understanding with Beckham.

Campbell just hasnt had a stable season and Im surprised he was included to be honest.

For a world cup of x amount games I would go with the players on top of their game and that would be carragher and Terry. 

I know where your coming from but I do think that in a tournament like this those two would give you the vocal command and motivation that you need to go through the whole team

So you'd pick an England team on form?

I'm sorry but thats rubbish. I remember a few years ago when Everton signed Kevin Campbell and he scored 9 goals in 8 games which saved them from relegation, does that mean he should have been picked for England ahead of Fowler, Owen and whoever else? I'm sorry, but you're having a laugh. You pick international class players otherwise you come unstuck quite badly.

Terry and Carragher are great club players, i wouldn't swap Carragher for anyone, but to suggest they are international class is insanity.

[Good Bob]

However, he's a defender, and as such I judge him primarily on his defending. He's excellent in the air, he's good on the deck, he's pacey, strong, physical and basically he's got everything he needs for the position that he plays. Unfortunately, he's also a f*cking flash b*stard. Sometimes I watch him and it looks like he's listened to every single nice word that's ever been said about him without taking on any of the criticism.

Am not having that mate. You've been one of the ones supporting Crouch saying playing upfront isn't all about scoring goals and you're spot on. So to then come out with that as an arguement is invalid in my opinion and is complete double standards.

Ferdinand is an excellent centre half. I agree he's not at the level he was but his reading of the game and ability alround is absoloutely outstanding. He switches off occassionally and does get sloppy with his passes on the odd occassion but its nothing like to the extent the media imply.

The lads an alround footballer and like i said before, i'll be very shocked if after the tournement he's still getting the same amount of stick. I'm not even an England fan to be honest, i just know a good player when i see one and i think its daft the way people always make mountains out of molehills.

If its not Owen being , its Beckham. If its not Ferdinand its Lampard... etc etc etc.

Theres no sense of reality with England fans and thats what makes me laugh.

The only world class players England have is Gerrard and Rooney.

Owen, Beckham and Ferdinand have reached world class level's in there time but aren't currently there.

At the minute i'd class them three as International class players along with A.Cole, J.Cole and Robinson.

If England have as good a team as everyones suggesting and Lampard and Terry are as good as they are then England will have no problem reaching the final at least. Also, Joe Cole's a centre midfielder, never a left midfielder in a million years.