Liverpool FC Forum

[Paul C]

Looking at the table today and I couldn't believe that our goal difference is -1 where you look at Man U and theirs is +22!!!!

Maybe this post is out of frustration but I just can't believe the difference between our defending last season and this season, were conceeded 15 and only scored 14, Man U have scored 27 and conceeded only 5, I just don't get it cos we have better players going forward and Sami and Carra are one of the best partnerships in the Premiership.

Maybe it's time to give Palleta and Agger a chance? 

[fivecups]

Paul, I think were all mistified. Football is a hard game to understand sometimes.

[puroresu]

I Know we are conceding more but still like last season we do not score enough goals.  Hyppia and Carragher are 1 year older and like it or not we are not blessed with pace at the back.

[Hebz]

So what if their one year older? Gary blooming Neville is still considered a great defender and how old is he?

Your just lookin for reasons to blame Liverpools status atm. Hyypia and Carra are still amazing defenders, and Agger's a good potential. But to take away two complete legends, well its ludacris put it that way.

[floppo]

Defence is not the main problem, getting the right blend in midfield and attack seems more of an issue. 1 goal in 6 away league games tells you everything. That's simply not good enough.

Away from home, we must take our chances. Our attemts to goals ratio is very poor and that is a significant reason why we are not winning away.

[jkop]

It is shocking compared to last season, but what would you do stick with Sami and Carra or look to Agger and Palleta ?

[floppo]

I said before this game that I would have played Agger and Carra today, think Agger has to come in on a regular basis now, Paletta will be more for next season onwards. Defo Agger and Carra need to form a partnership and use Sami as back up from now on for me.

[A.B.]

So what if their one year older? Gary blooming Neville is still considered a great defender and how old is he?

Your just lookin for reasons to blame Liverpools status atm. Hyypia and Carra are still amazing defenders, and Agger's a good potential. But to take away two complete legends, well its ludacris put it that way.

Amazing defenders?  Carragher was and never will be world class. He's a good player who plays with heart and passion but he hasn't even done that. He isn't world class, he isn't better than Ferdinand,Terry,Gallas,Carvalho,Toure,etc..

Hyypia is in the same category, although he was easily the best in the league a couple years ago when he played alongside Henchoz.

[Lando_Griffin]

This may shock some of you, but the sole reason we are conceding more goals is because we're defending higher up the pitch.

Remarkable or what!?!

JC is not so much out of form, as struggling to adapt to the higher defensive line. Same with Finnan at the start of the season, IMO.
Sami and JC are probably the slowest CB pairing in the league, so both prefer to defend deep, which is why we had a brilliant record last season when we did just that.

But then the "We aren't exciting/scoring enough - sack Rafa" brigade turned up, and through the constant sniping, got what they wanted.

I'm going to start a "plastic fans f*ck off" chant and hope THAT comes true.

[A.B.]

This may shock some of you, but the sole reason we are conceding more goals is because we're defending higher up the pitch.

Remarkable or what!?!

Sami and JC are probably the slowest CB pairing in the league, so both prefer to defend deep, which is why we had a brilliant record last season, when we did just that.

But then the "We aren't exciting/scoring enough - sack Rafa" brigade turned up, and through the constant sniping, got what they wanted.

I'm going to start a "plastic fans f*ck off" chant and hope THAT comes true.

That is true. We aren't playing ''compact'' football anymore which is where we excelled last season. But Carra and Sami going forward wasn't the reason we conceded three, we were just .

Not just at the back, but we've been defending poorely as a team for much of the season away from home.

[Lando_Griffin]

Exactly. But the reason they were gash is the higher line.

It's funny how virtually the entire team has struggled individually this season.

As soon as the balance is found, we'll batter teams regularly and actually match the top 3 for a change.

[A.B.]

Exactly. But the reason they were gash is the higher line.

It's funny how virtually the entire team has struggled individually this season.

As soon as the balance is found, we'll batter teams regularly and actually match the top 3 for a change.

The two areas where we were solid last year was in the midfield and at the back. We were poor up front.

It's the opposite this year. Crouch and Kuyt have better goal-scoring ratios than any of our strikers did last year.

It's gone tits up really when you think about. Everything that we've gained, we've throwed out the window.

[Lando_Griffin]

Exactly. But the reason they were gash is the higher line.

It's funny how virtually the entire team has struggled individually this season.

As soon as the balance is found, we'll batter teams regularly and actually match the top 3 for a change.

The two areas where we were solid last year was in the midfield and at the back. We were poor up front.

It's the opposite this year. Crouch and Kuyt have better goal-scoring ratios than any of our strikers did last year.

It's gone tits up really when you think about. Everything that we've gained, we've throwed out the window.

Yep.

I think it needed to be highlighted for the short-sighted on the board, though.

Higher defensive line = more goals at BOTH ends.

I wouldn't be overly suprised if Rafa goes shopping for a lightening-fast CB in Jan/the Summer. (Assuming there is one of a suitable standard available.)

Again - it's about balance. If you look at Valencia (the model Rafa is copying here), they had competant footballers all over the pitch, swarming everywhere, crushing the opponent.

The defence wasn't lightening, but it was well marshelled (by Pellegrino and Canazares, NOT Ayala), and many of their counter-attacks were instigated by the two central defenders. (Both of whom were much better on the ball than our pair. - more like Agger (Hint, hint, cough - future - hint, cough.)

Albelda and Baraja didn't look like the "cum in your pants" central midfield pairing - until they started winning things. Albelda was about as flashy as coal, whereas Baraja was like (but more reserved than) Stevie. F*ck me could they play well together, though.

Rafa is trying to recreate this by playing Xabi and Gerrard in the same team. He's trying to acdapt it to the Premiership by deploying Momo as a wandering destroyer, freeing the other two up to do other things.

I feel Rafa sees Gerrard as his "Aimar" - creating, combining and finishing. He's not as cute as the Argentine in his play, but Pablo would fall on his a*se in England due to the physicality of the league.

The problem lies in the wingers. At Valencia, Rafa had Vicente and Rufate who were ideally suited to the style their team played. Both were hard workers, capable of scoring and defending aswell as creating. Could anyone say the same about Pennant?
Last season, we had Kewell doing a sterling winger's job. This season, all our wide players are basically sh*t. Kewell's recovery from injury cannot come soon enough in my eyes. The lad is sorely missed, as he always provided an outlet in tough matches. (Perhaps another reason we're struggling away from home.)
Until we get Pennant fired up and getting stuck in, we will struggle. Gerrard or Garcia need to play the free role if we want to batter teams.

Kuyt is a better player than Carew and Mista IMHO, but we just don't support him as Valencia would have. Gerrard needs to push on into the box, as does the winger(s) of the day, and even Sissoko.

Hunt as a pack, and smother the opposition.

Something like this, with the wingers knuckling down, is how I personally see Rafa's team:

                                      Reina

            Finnan           JC             Sami           Riise

                       Alonso                    Sissoko
Pennant                                                              Kewell
                                     Gerrard

                                       Kuyt.


I know everyone wants 4-4-2, but I think that this team would be our strongest, particulalry away from home. (If Pennant fails to deliver, then Gerrard goes rightwing, and Garcia occupies the "Aimar" role.)

Does anyone actually see any fault in that lineup, other than as a result of some preconcieved "only 4-4-2" ideas?

When defending, it's a solid 4-2-3-1. When attacking, the wingers push on, and it becomes a 4-2-4. (Can even become 4-1-5 if Sissoko decides to start goalscoring! )

The pace on the wings means we're unlikely to leave the fullbacks exposed, (more intelligence with Kewell, now) and Xabi sitting back means the defence is pretty secure.

Back to the point, most of Valencia's strength was in the balance. Even when they were under the kosh, Aimar could set Carew (or Mista) free in the blink of an eye, which forced the opposition to defend deeper. This relieved pressure, allowing Ayala and Pelligrino to push out more, and the whole thing ran like a f*cking machine.

Can't you lot see that we're heading that way, too?

[red_guy]

Exactly. But the reason they were gash is the higher line.

It's funny how virtually the entire team has struggled individually this season.

As soon as the balance is found, we'll batter teams regularly and actually match the top 3 for a change.

The two areas where we were solid last year was in the midfield and at the back. We were poor up front.

It's the opposite this year. Crouch and Kuyt have better goal-scoring ratios than any of our strikers did last year.

It's gone tits up really when you think about. Everything that we've gained, we've throwed out the window.

Yep.

I think it needed to be highlighted for the short-sighted on the board, though.

Higher defensive line = more goals at BOTH ends.

I wouldn't be overly suprised if Rafa goes shopping for a lightening-fast CB in Jan/the Summer. (Assuming there is one of a suitable standard available.)

Again - it's about balance. If you look at Valencia (the model Rafa is copying here), they had competant footballers all over the pitch, swarming everywhere, crushing the opponent.

The defence wasn't lightening, but it was well marshelled (by Pellegrino and Canazares, NOT Ayala), and many of their counter-attacks were instigated by the two central defenders. (Both of whom were much better on the ball than our pair. - more like Agger (Hint, hint, cough - future - hint, cough.)

Albelda and Baraja didn't look like the "cum in your pants" central midfield pairing - until they started winning things. Albelda was about as flashy as coal, whereas Baraja was like (but more reserved than) Stevie. F*ck me could they play well together, though.

Rafa is trying to recreate this by playing Xabi and Gerrard in the same team. He's trying to acdapt it to the Premiership by deploying Momo as a wandering destroyer, freeing the other two up to do other things.

I feel Rafa sees Gerrard as his "Aimar" - creating, combining and finishing. He's not as cute as the Argentine in his play, but Pablo would fall on his a*se in England due to the physicality of the league.

The problem lies in the wingers. At Valencia, Rafa had Vicente and Rufate who were ideally suited to the style their team played. Both were hard workers, capable of scoring and defending aswell as creating. Could anyone say the same about Pennant?
Last season, we had Kewell doing a sterling winger's job. This season, all our wide players are basically sh*t. Kewell's recovery from injury cannot come soon enough in my eyes. The lad is sorely missed, as he always provided an outlet in tough matches. (Perhaps another reason we're struggling away from home.)
Until we get Pennant fired up and getting stuck in, we will struggle. Gerrard or Garcia need to play the free role if we want to batter teams.

Kuyt is a better player than Carew and Mista IMHO, but we just don't support him as Valencia would have. Gerrard needs to push on into the box, as does the winger(s) of the day, and even Sissoko.

Hunt as a pack, and smother the opposition.

Something like this, with the wingers knuckling down, is how I personally see Rafa's team:

                                      Reina

            Finnan           JC             Sami           Riise

                       Alonso                    Sissoko
Pennant                                                              Kewell
                                     Gerrard

                                       Kuyt.


I know everyone wants 4-4-2, but I think that this team would be our strongest, particulalry away from home. (If Pennant fails to deliver, then Gerrard goes rightwing, and Garcia occupies the "Aimar" role.)

Does anyone actually see any fault in that lineup, other than as a result of some preconcieved "only 4-4-2" ideas?

When defending, it's a solid 4-2-3-1. When attacking, the wingers push on, and it becomes a 4-2-4. (Can even become 4-1-5 if Sissoko decides to start goalscoring! )

The pace on the wings means we're unlikely to leave the fullbacks exposed, (more intelligence with Kewell, now) and Xabi sitting back means the defence is pretty secure.

Back to the point, most of Valencia's strength was in the balance. Even when they were under the kosh, Aimar could set Carew (or Mista) free in the blink of an eye, which forced the opposition to defend deeper. This relieved pressure, allowing Ayala and Pelligrino to push out more, and the whole thing ran like a f*cking machine.

Can't you lot see that we're heading that way, too?

Good post lando. Agree with you on that. Anyway, just being frustrated watching your team got hammered by our main rivals ( Scum, bitters, gooners etc). By the way, we missed kewell.

[anti-hero]

Exactly. But the reason they were gash is the higher line.

It's funny how virtually the entire team has struggled individually this season.

As soon as the balance is found, we'll batter teams regularly and actually match the top 3 for a change.

The two areas where we were solid last year was in the midfield and at the back. We were poor up front.

It's the opposite this year. Crouch and Kuyt have better goal-scoring ratios than any of our strikers did last year.

It's gone tits up really when you think about. Everything that we've gained, we've throwed out the window.

Yep.

I think it needed to be highlighted for the short-sighted on the board, though.

Higher defensive line = more goals at BOTH ends.

I wouldn't be overly suprised if Rafa goes shopping for a lightening-fast CB in Jan/the Summer. (Assuming there is one of a suitable standard available.)

Again - it's about balance. If you look at Valencia (the model Rafa is copying here), they had competant footballers all over the pitch, swarming everywhere, crushing the opponent.

The defence wasn't lightening, but it was well marshelled (by Pellegrino and Canazares, NOT Ayala), and many of their counter-attacks were instigated by the two central defenders. (Both of whom were much better on the ball than our pair. - more like Agger (Hint, hint, cough - future - hint, cough.)

Albelda and Baraja didn't look like the "cum in your pants" central midfield pairing - until they started winning things. Albelda was about as flashy as coal, whereas Baraja was like (but more reserved than) Stevie. F*ck me could they play well together, though.

Rafa is trying to recreate this by playing Xabi and Gerrard in the same team. He's trying to acdapt it to the Premiership by deploying Momo as a wandering destroyer, freeing the other two up to do other things.

I feel Rafa sees Gerrard as his "Aimar" - creating, combining and finishing. He's not as cute as the Argentine in his play, but Pablo would fall on his a*se in England due to the physicality of the league.

The problem lies in the wingers. At Valencia, Rafa had Vicente and Rufate who were ideally suited to the style their team played. Both were hard workers, capable of scoring and defending aswell as creating. Could anyone say the same about Pennant?
Last season, we had Kewell doing a sterling winger's job. This season, all our wide players are basically sh*t. Kewell's recovery from injury cannot come soon enough in my eyes. The lad is sorely missed, as he always provided an outlet in tough matches. (Perhaps another reason we're struggling away from home.)
Until we get Pennant fired up and getting stuck in, we will struggle. Gerrard or Garcia need to play the free role if we want to batter teams.

Kuyt is a better player than Carew and Mista IMHO, but we just don't support him as Valencia would have. Gerrard needs to push on into the box, as does the winger(s) of the day, and even Sissoko.

Hunt as a pack, and smother the opposition.

Something like this, with the wingers knuckling down, is how I personally see Rafa's team:

                                      Reina

            Finnan           JC             Sami           Riise

                       Alonso                    Sissoko
Pennant                                                              Kewell
                                     Gerrard

                                       Kuyt.


I know everyone wants 4-4-2, but I think that this team would be our strongest, particulalry away from home. (If Pennant fails to deliver, then Gerrard goes rightwing, and Garcia occupies the "Aimar" role.)

Does anyone actually see any fault in that lineup, other than as a result of some preconcieved "only 4-4-2" ideas?

When defending, it's a solid 4-2-3-1. When attacking, the wingers push on, and it becomes a 4-2-4. (Can even become 4-1-5 if Sissoko decides to start goalscoring! )

The pace on the wings means we're unlikely to leave the fullbacks exposed, (more intelligence with Kewell, now) and Xabi sitting back means the defence is pretty secure.

Back to the point, most of Valencia's strength was in the balance. Even when they were under the kosh, Aimar could set Carew (or Mista) free in the blink of an eye, which forced the opposition to defend deeper. This relieved pressure, allowing Ayala and Pelligrino to push out more, and the whole thing ran like a f*cking machine.

Can't you lot see that we're heading that way, too?

My gosh Lando.





And I thought you were just another clown.