Liverpool FC Forum

[Leonmc0708]

So is it therefore ALL down to Rafa that Torres and Gerrard are so good - after all he plays htem wll the time when htey are fit.

These players need to feel the love dont they.

Torres and Gerrard are world class players and would be the same in any team no matter who their manager was.

So then surely KEane would be a good player no matter who his manager was ?

You cant have it both ways - if its Rafa's fault we do one thing, its got to be him who is responsible for our success in another area.

Fickle.

You're missing the point Leon.

Torres and Gerrard aren't taken off the pitch at 60 minutes every game (and mostly for players who won't make the slightest bit of difference). They aren't benched when the score and they aren't subbed in the middle of a hat-trick.

All of which Rafa has done to Keane since day one.

That's bound to have a negative effect on a player.

Benitez's management of Keane has been abysmal. Sure, Robbie could have kncoked a few ore of those "sitters" in, but for me, Rafa is to blame for Keanes utter failure at Liverpool.

I think the rot though has well and truly settled in now. Keane knows every game that he has an hour on the pitch and he'll be dragged off for some nothing like Lucas or Benny or N'Gog.

Keane won't see another season at Liverpool.

No mate your missing hte point.

The point is that KEane needs to take some of the flak for his poor form.

Rafa didnt make him miss sitters at Bolton, PReston and the like - this was down to poor concentration.

To simply exonerate KEane is laughable.

[tonyeh]

My point is, that even if Keane had 5 goals more this season and scoring like he recently was doing, it would be a fair question to ask if we need another striker.

And it's a good point.

I wonder how many goals Keane may have scored if he was allowed 90 mins on the pitch in a match. A lot can happen in 30 minutes. He may well have scored another 5 or more, which would have him on 12 goals half way through the season.

[tonyeh]

So is it therefore ALL down to Rafa that Torres and Gerrard are so good - after all he plays htem wll the time when htey are fit.

These players need to feel the love dont they.

Torres and Gerrard are world class players and would be the same in any team no matter who their manager was.

So then surely KEane would be a good player no matter who his manager was ?

You cant have it both ways - if its Rafa's fault we do one thing, its got to be him who is responsible for our success in another area.

Fickle.

You're missing the point Leon.

Torres and Gerrard aren't taken off the pitch at 60 minutes every game (and mostly for players who won't make the slightest bit of difference). They aren't benched when the score and they aren't subbed in the middle of a hat-trick.

All of which Rafa has done to Keane since day one.

That's bound to have a negative effect on a player.

Benitez's management of Keane has been abysmal. Sure, Robbie could have kncoked a few ore of those "sitters" in, but for me, Rafa is to blame for Keanes utter failure at Liverpool.

I think the rot though has well and truly settled in now. Keane knows every game that he has an hour on the pitch and he'll be dragged off for some nothing like Lucas or Benny or N'Gog.

Keane won't see another season at Liverpool.

No mate your missing hte point.

The point is that KEane needs to take some of the flak for his poor form.

Rafa didnt make him miss sitters at Bolton, PReston and the like - this was down to poor concentration.

To simply exonerate KEane is laughable.

I'm not exonerating Keane, he has let his concentration slip, but Rafa has a huge part to play in that, from the awful and pointless way he's managed the young fella.

Keane certainly has made some silly moves (I got hassle for calling him a gobsh!te for his backheel attempt in the CL), but being hauled off on the hour in every match, plus being benched when you are performing is ONLY going to have a bad effect.

And that is purely down to Benitez.

I'd understand if Keane was being replace with a player who'll make a difference, but subbing him for Lucas or Bennayoon is a substitution just for the sake of it and ultimately it's a bad model.

[mkingdom]

Yes we need someone and Owen is it.  £4m is pocket change today (relatively speaking) and even at Newcastle who are $*i*e, his scoring ratio is excellent.

It would be a nice lift for the squad too...Carra and Gerrard would want him back, and he would make the difference in those half dozen matches that we are no doubt going to draw rather than win, and therefore not win the title...again.

Sell Pennant to Portsmouth to raise the cash...anything....just do it Rafa.

[taff]

It seems to me that if we get it right then some people say wait till rafa gets it wrong again and after last night its the same old criticisms of Rafa.  He is not like O'Neill but not the cold monster some portray him as.

If you looked at cold decisions from a football point of view then bringing Keane off was a good move last night.  Keane does work hard in most games and to be honest looks like he should come off towards the end of a game.  But the thing Ive always liked about Keane is his attitude and I have faith in him coming good and should not be sold after a few months.  This is where he wants to be and he needs to show it in performance. 

I would advocate a bid for Michael Owen but would not be upset if we didnt get him.  Torres has now had some match time and should be firing soon and this is a huge point for the rest of the season for us.

While I would sell Kuyt in a heartbeat I am amazed by some of the criticism he gets as he is a real honest footballer who works his socks off for the team.  He will never be a flash player but look back at the season and look again at his involvement in play and goals he contributes a lot.  But if someone better came along of course I would sell him but in no way does he deserve the criticisms he has had.

Back to Keane then I would definitely not sell him but neither would I pander to him or play him into confidence as this is a critical stage and he needs to hit the floor running like a true professional.

And Rafa and his rants have made me laugh but they have also taken the frenzy away from SG and hopefully have enforced a seige mentality in the squad which is what we really need with the run in to the league having started in earnest. 

We have to face facts that we have not competed for the league in 18 years and the squad maybe needs a hard dose of reality and toughness

[club_Levis]

Yes we need someone and Owen is it.  £4m is pocket change today (relatively speaking) and even at Newcastle who are $*i*e, his scoring ratio is excellent.

It would be a nice lift for the squad too...Carra and Gerrard would want him back, and he would make the difference in those half dozen matches that we are no doubt going to draw rather than win, and therefore not win the title...again.

Sell Pennant to Portsmouth to raise the cash...anything....just do it Rafa.

 

[lakes10]

where have you been mate, a lot of us were talking about it, not only about what he said but also trhat he was talking to NOTW.

"Benitez’s unrest stems from the Gareth Barry saga last year, when the club refused to splash £18m for the Villa man. The Spanish boss was keen to press ahead but Reds chiefs committed £20m on another target, Robbie Keane.


Benitez believes Barry was not pursued by Parry with the same vigour as Keane, a charge furiously denied by Liverpool.


The club agreed not to buy Barry and sell Xabi Alonso at a loss. When Peter Crouch was sold but Alonso’s move to Juventus broke down, the Liverpool board called off talks for Barry and bought Keane.


Benitez argues this is a decision he alone should have taken. On the day the Keane deal went through, the manager even made a last-ditch effort to block it until after Barry was signed"

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/sport....et.html

No quote from Rafa there Lakes, and you should know better than posting links to the sunday S*n on here.

hmm, you should tell our manager to to talk to them, use the link.

rafa was speaking at a general press conference. At no point does it say rafa spoke to the news of the world.

no it was a interview with CHRIS BASCOMBE and it was a exclusive.

on other points

Stephen Garrard sold his story to the NOTW

As did John Barns,Robbie Fowler.

This is the 4th time Rafa has spoken only to them in a interview.

[tonyeh]

It seems to me that if we get it right then some people say wait till rafa gets it wrong again and after last night its the same old criticisms of Rafa.  He is not like O'Neill but not the cold monster some portray him as.

If you looked at cold decisions from a football point of view then bringing Keane off was a good move last night.  Keane does work hard in most games and to be honest looks like he should come off towards the end of a game.  But the thing Ive always liked about Keane is his attitude and I have faith in him coming good and should not be sold after a few months.  This is where he wants to be and he needs to show it in performance. 

I would advocate a bid for Michael Owen but would not be upset if we didnt get him.  Torres has now had some match time and should be firing soon and this is a huge point for the rest of the season for us.

While I would sell Kuyt in a heartbeat I am amazed by some of the criticism he gets as he is a real honest footballer who works his socks off for the team.  He will never be a flash player but look back at the season and look again at his involvement in play and goals he contributes a lot.  But if someone better came along of course I would sell him but in no way does he deserve the criticisms he has had.

Back to Keane then I would definitely not sell him but neither would I pander to him or play him into confidence as this is a critical stage and he needs to hit the floor running like a true professional.

And Rafa and his rants have made me laugh but they have also taken the frenzy away from SG and hopefully have enforced a seige mentality in the squad which is what we really need with the run in to the league having started in earnest. 

We have to face facts that we have not competed for the league in 18 years and the squad maybe needs a hard dose of reality and toughness

I don't think people are critical of Benitez for the sake of it Taff. He has made and continues to make some awful decisions and his subbing policy (because that's what it is) is childish in is simplicity, pigheaded in its stubborness and negative in its effect.

Good or bad didn't come into Rafa's "decision" to take Keane off on the 60 minute mark last night. He would have done that, even if Robbie had scored in the first half as, just like he would have subbed Riera for Babel because that's what he nearly always does.

It isn't about bashing the manager for the laugh.

I fear though, that Keane's Liverpool career has been all but destroyed. I can't see a way back for him now and clearly Rafa has consigned him to the same mental bin as Couch, Finnan, Pennant etc.

I honestly believe that we'll see him gone in the Summer, Keane that is, which puts us back at square one regarding new striker material.

[lakes10]

where have you been mate, a lot of us were talking about it, not only about what he said but also trhat he was talking to NOTW.

"Benitez’s unrest stems from the Gareth Barry saga last year, when the club refused to splash £18m for the Villa man. The Spanish boss was keen to press ahead but Reds chiefs committed £20m on another target, Robbie Keane.


Benitez believes Barry was not pursued by Parry with the same vigour as Keane, a charge furiously denied by Liverpool.


The club agreed not to buy Barry and sell Xabi Alonso at a loss. When Peter Crouch was sold but Alonso’s move to Juventus broke down, the Liverpool board called off talks for Barry and bought Keane.


Benitez argues this is a decision he alone should have taken. On the day the Keane deal went through, the manager even made a last-ditch effort to block it until after Barry was signed"

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/sport....et.html

No quote from Rafa there Lakes, and you should know better than posting links to the sunday S*n on here.

hmm, you should tell our manager to to talk to them, use the link.

A few points:

1 - Dont post links to the Sunday Sun on here - you have been told about this before soft lad.

2 - The article you have posted contains no quotes.

3 - The article on the News of The World does not mention your wild accusation that Rafa has said "I did not sign Robbie KEane"

you dont have to warn me about posting links on here soft lad, It was my friends face being pushed  up against the fence the S*n printed on one of their front pages, that was the last time i sure her face mate so you dont need to inforce your view to me about the s*n as i am with you all the way.

but agin i could use what Stephen Garrard said when asked why he sold out to the NOTW, he said "it was not the Sun"

[Leonmc0708]

where have you been mate, a lot of us were talking about it, not only about what he said but also trhat he was talking to NOTW.

"Benitez’s unrest stems from the Gareth Barry saga last year, when the club refused to splash £18m for the Villa man. The Spanish boss was keen to press ahead but Reds chiefs committed £20m on another target, Robbie Keane.


Benitez believes Barry was not pursued by Parry with the same vigour as Keane, a charge furiously denied by Liverpool.


The club agreed not to buy Barry and sell Xabi Alonso at a loss. When Peter Crouch was sold but Alonso’s move to Juventus broke down, the Liverpool board called off talks for Barry and bought Keane.


Benitez argues this is a decision he alone should have taken. On the day the Keane deal went through, the manager even made a last-ditch effort to block it until after Barry was signed"

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/sport....et.html

No quote from Rafa there Lakes, and you should know better than posting links to the sunday S*n on here.

hmm, you should tell our manager to to talk to them, use the link.

rafa was speaking at a general press conference. At no point does it say rafa spoke to the news of the world.

no it was a interview with CHRIS BASCOMBE and it was a exclusive.

on other points

Stephen Garrard sold his story to the NOTW

As did John Barns,Robbie Fowler.

This is the 4th time Rafa has spoken only to them in a interview.

No.

You are wrong.

ITs a story by Bascombe but doesnt say anywwhere that he interviewed by him,.

In fact - Benitez hasnt spoken to the NOTW and stated recently when asked that "They are one of the papers that we do not speak to".

Stop talking sh.it LAkes you bell.end.

[account deleted by request]

where have you been mate, a lot of us were talking about it, not only about what he said but also trhat he was talking to NOTW.

"Benitez’s unrest stems from the Gareth Barry saga last year, when the club refused to splash £18m for the Villa man. The Spanish boss was keen to press ahead but Reds chiefs committed £20m on another target, Robbie Keane.


Benitez believes Barry was not pursued by Parry with the same vigour as Keane, a charge furiously denied by Liverpool.


The club agreed not to buy Barry and sell Xabi Alonso at a loss. When Peter Crouch was sold but Alonso’s move to Juventus broke down, the Liverpool board called off talks for Barry and bought Keane.


Benitez argues this is a decision he alone should have taken. On the day the Keane deal went through, the manager even made a last-ditch effort to block it until after Barry was signed"

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/sport....et.html

No quote from Rafa there Lakes, and you should know better than posting links to the sunday S*n on here.

hmm, you should tell our manager to to talk to them, use the link.

rafa was speaking at a general press conference. At no point does it say rafa spoke to the news of the world.

no it was a interview with CHRIS BASCOMBE and it was a exclusive.

on other points

Stephen Garrard sold his story to the NOTW

As did John Barns,Robbie Fowler.

This is the 4th time Rafa has spoken only to them in a interview.

No.

You are wrong.

ITs a story by Bascombe but doesnt say anywwhere that he interviewed by him,.

In fact - Benitez hasnt spoken to the NOTW and stated recently when asked that "They are one of the papers that we do not speak to".

Stop talking sh.it LAkes you bell.end.

Have you got a source for that Leon ?

[taff]

It seems to me that if we get it right then some people say wait till rafa gets it wrong again and after last night its the same old criticisms of Rafa.  He is not like O'Neill but not the cold monster some portray him as.

If you looked at cold decisions from a football point of view then bringing Keane off was a good move last night.  Keane does work hard in most games and to be honest looks like he should come off towards the end of a game.  But the thing Ive always liked about Keane is his attitude and I have faith in him coming good and should not be sold after a few months.  This is where he wants to be and he needs to show it in performance. 

I would advocate a bid for Michael Owen but would not be upset if we didnt get him.  Torres has now had some match time and should be firing soon and this is a huge point for the rest of the season for us.

While I would sell Kuyt in a heartbeat I am amazed by some of the criticism he gets as he is a real honest footballer who works his socks off for the team.  He will never be a flash player but look back at the season and look again at his involvement in play and goals he contributes a lot.  But if someone better came along of course I would sell him but in no way does he deserve the criticisms he has had.

Back to Keane then I would definitely not sell him but neither would I pander to him or play him into confidence as this is a critical stage and he needs to hit the floor running like a true professional.

And Rafa and his rants have made me laugh but they have also taken the frenzy away from SG and hopefully have enforced a seige mentality in the squad which is what we really need with the run in to the league having started in earnest. 

We have to face facts that we have not competed for the league in 18 years and the squad maybe needs a hard dose of reality and toughness

I don't think people are critical of Benitez for the sake of it Taff. He has made and continues to make some awful decisions and his subbing policy (because that's what it is) is childish in is simplicity, pigheaded in its stubborness and negative in its effect.

Good or bad didn't come into Rafa's "decision" to take Keane off on the 60 minute mark last night. He would have done that, even if Robbie had scored in the first half as, just like he would have subbed Riera for Babel because that's what he nearly always does.

It isn't about bashing the manager for the laugh.

I fear though, that Keane's Liverpool career has been all but destroyed. I can't see a way back for him now and clearly Rafa has consigned him to the same mental bin as Couch, Finnan, Pennant etc.

I honestly believe that we'll see him gone in the Summer, Keane that is, which puts us back at square one regarding new striker material.

Ok let me try another way.

We are playing for keeps and if Keane hasnt the guts to knuckle down then tara mate go down the division and be a hero for a no mark club.  I support Rafa in this as the nicey nicey way that Houllier had left us way behind.

Subs are rubbish if we lose great if we win but with Rafa even sending Lucas on for SG after Lucas' play won us the match, well he got slated then.  Just discussing the facts

[Leonmc0708]

where have you been mate, a lot of us were talking about it, not only about what he said but also trhat he was talking to NOTW.

"Benitez’s unrest stems from the Gareth Barry saga last year, when the club refused to splash £18m for the Villa man. The Spanish boss was keen to press ahead but Reds chiefs committed £20m on another target, Robbie Keane.


Benitez believes Barry was not pursued by Parry with the same vigour as Keane, a charge furiously denied by Liverpool.


The club agreed not to buy Barry and sell Xabi Alonso at a loss. When Peter Crouch was sold but Alonso’s move to Juventus broke down, the Liverpool board called off talks for Barry and bought Keane.


Benitez argues this is a decision he alone should have taken. On the day the Keane deal went through, the manager even made a last-ditch effort to block it until after Barry was signed"

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/sport....et.html

No quote from Rafa there Lakes, and you should know better than posting links to the sunday S*n on here.

hmm, you should tell our manager to to talk to them, use the link.

rafa was speaking at a general press conference. At no point does it say rafa spoke to the news of the world.

no it was a interview with CHRIS BASCOMBE and it was a exclusive.

on other points

Stephen Garrard sold his story to the NOTW

As did John Barns,Robbie Fowler.

This is the 4th time Rafa has spoken only to them in a interview.

No.

You are wrong.

ITs a story by Bascombe but doesnt say anywwhere that he interviewed by him,.

In fact - Benitez hasnt spoken to the NOTW and stated recently when asked that "They are one of the papers that we do not speak to".

Stop talking sh.it LAkes you bell.end.

Have you got a source for that Leon ?

Are you joking?

It was in an interview on Sky OR BBC after the game.

Cant remember but I am sure it was when he was questioned about an ownership/contract/polotics issue.

I will try and find the intraweb link somewhere.

[account deleted by request]

Are you joking?

It was in an interview on Sky OR BBC after the game.

Cant remember but I am sure it was when he was questioned about an ownership/contract/polotics issue.

I will try and find the intraweb link somewhere.

No mate I wasn't. I was just curious because it seems a strange thing to say when Gerrards book was serialised in the NOTW and they advertised the NOTW on the offal.

No need to search on my account mate, if you say its so thats enough for me.

[tonyeh]

It seems to me that if we get it right then some people say wait till rafa gets it wrong again and after last night its the same old criticisms of Rafa.  He is not like O'Neill but not the cold monster some portray him as.

If you looked at cold decisions from a football point of view then bringing Keane off was a good move last night.  Keane does work hard in most games and to be honest looks like he should come off towards the end of a game.  But the thing Ive always liked about Keane is his attitude and I have faith in him coming good and should not be sold after a few months.  This is where he wants to be and he needs to show it in performance. 

I would advocate a bid for Michael Owen but would not be upset if we didnt get him.  Torres has now had some match time and should be firing soon and this is a huge point for the rest of the season for us.

While I would sell Kuyt in a heartbeat I am amazed by some of the criticism he gets as he is a real honest footballer who works his socks off for the team.  He will never be a flash player but look back at the season and look again at his involvement in play and goals he contributes a lot.  But if someone better came along of course I would sell him but in no way does he deserve the criticisms he has had.

Back to Keane then I would definitely not sell him but neither would I pander to him or play him into confidence as this is a critical stage and he needs to hit the floor running like a true professional.

And Rafa and his rants have made me laugh but they have also taken the frenzy away from SG and hopefully have enforced a seige mentality in the squad which is what we really need with the run in to the league having started in earnest. 

We have to face facts that we have not competed for the league in 18 years and the squad maybe needs a hard dose of reality and toughness

I don't think people are critical of Benitez for the sake of it Taff. He has made and continues to make some awful decisions and his subbing policy (because that's what it is) is childish in is simplicity, pigheaded in its stubborness and negative in its effect.

Good or bad didn't come into Rafa's "decision" to take Keane off on the 60 minute mark last night. He would have done that, even if Robbie had scored in the first half as, just like he would have subbed Riera for Babel because that's what he nearly always does.

It isn't about bashing the manager for the laugh.

I fear though, that Keane's Liverpool career has been all but destroyed. I can't see a way back for him now and clearly Rafa has consigned him to the same mental bin as Couch, Finnan, Pennant etc.

I honestly believe that we'll see him gone in the Summer, Keane that is, which puts us back at square one regarding new striker material.

Ok let me try another way.

We are playing for keeps and if Keane hasnt the guts to knuckle down then tara mate go down the division and be a hero for a no mark club.  I support Rafa in this as the nicey nicey way that Houllier had left us way behind.

Subs are rubbish if we lose great if we win but with Rafa even sending Lucas on for SG after Lucas' play won us the match, well he got slated then.  Just discussing the facts

Rafa's sub are rubbish 90% of the time. There is no real logic at work there.

There are times when Riera has been our only attacking midfielder and he's been subbed un-necessarilly for Babel and also Keane's been hauled off on the 60 for no decernible reason too.

There's no logic or tactic or strategy.

So, no Benitez's subs are not great when we win or when we lose (draw), they're are simply robotic.

I agree though, if a player is continually under par for the club, then he should be sold to create funds for someone who could offer more.

That's why Kuyt, Bennayoon, Lucas, Pennant and Keane (if he can't buck up) should be gone.