Liverpool FC Forum

[tubby]

The change in ownership situation doesn't look like it's going to change any time soon but you never know if wr finish outside the top 4 it could put more pressure on the owners to sell.

Also on a different note I know this isn't really the thread for it but anyone read Stan Collymores latest pile of ? He is saying Stevie should leave.



I tell you what though if we do finish outside the top 4 and we don't get in any quality players in the summer and the samething happens again next season I can see that turning into another summer of madness again.

[account deleted by request]

An thats what im trying to say Saint , We need stability mate not uncertainess , imo it dosnt matter if you bring in the drunk, while them two are here bitching with each other not knowing if were gonna have this much or that much to spend , wheeling and dealing , doing what your told , its gonna be the same mate,,

Thats were we really hit a problem Nanny, people ask who would take the job of manager under these clowns, more worrying is who is going to buy a club off these clowns 

All the rumours seem to have dried up, there doesn't seem to be anyone in the background anymore. The Arabs have no money...... so where the feck are we going to get new owners?

[tubby]

An thats what im trying to say Saint , We need stability mate not uncertainess , imo it dosnt matter if you bring in the drunk, while them two are here bitching with each other not knowing if were gonna have this much or that much to spend , wheeling and dealing , doing what your told , its gonna be the same mate,,

Thats were we really hit a problem Nanny, people ask who would take the job of manager under these clowns, more worrying is who is going to buy a club off these clowns 

All the rumours seem to have dried up, there doesn't seem to be anyone in the background anymore. The Arabs have no money...... so where the feck are we going to get new owners?

In that case it really could be just a new change of manager having to work with what he has. If that proves to be the new situation then I wouldn't even dream of Mourinho. Hodgsen, McLaren and other yes men come to mind.

[account deleted by request]

An thats what im trying to say Saint , We need stability mate not uncertainess , imo it dosnt matter if you bring in the drunk, while them two are here bitching with each other not knowing if were gonna have this much or that much to spend , wheeling and dealing , doing what your told , its gonna be the same mate,,

Thats were we really hit a problem Nanny, people ask who would take the job of manager under these clowns, more worrying is who is going to buy a club off these clowns 

All the rumours seem to have dried up, there doesn't seem to be anyone in the background anymore. The Arabs have no money...... so where the feck are we going to get new owners?

In that case it really could be just a new change of manager having to work with what he has. If that proves to be the new situation then I wouldn't even dream of Mourinho. Hodgsen, McLaren and other yes men come to mind.

Mourinho has worked with little money before, Dalglish has too. So there are two possibles that have both won titles on more than one occasion.

The thing is Bav I think we have a great team, we just need someone who can fill the gaps in the squad and get all of them playing to their potential.

Its no use selling players and buying new ones if they are not going to make us better, what we need is someone who can make the team play better, rather than 101 new signings.

FFS we have all seen how well the team can play on occasion, we just need it to play to its optimum level most weeks rather than on the odd occasion or in spurts and bliiiips.

[Penguins]

Well, it is a dismal situation. There just won't be any money if a new manager came in. He would also be picked by the 2 morons
which meams marketing ability outweigh football knowledge and you can be sure it would be a yes man never opposing them.

Never forget Rafa wasn't appointed by them so they won't have full control over him but a new manager would know his place as their lap dog.

So we both have to rely on those two's judgement and hope that a top class manager want to come to a club with no resources, sky high demands and who can't say anything bad about the owners. Mclaren or Klinsman. I guess Klinsman for his marketing ability...

[Penguins]

But who knows how Daglish will fare?
That was decades ago and football has changed immensly since then. The difference between teams with money now compared to the ones who don't is much bigger than it was. And Mourinho
worked with comparativly little money once when in Portugal but Porto was still the biggest team in the country by a mile having won the league like 10 times in a row and had the possibility to get the best portugese players and was on a high. After that Mourinho has only gone to the strongest team financially in whatever league. Way overrated and it isn't some huge achivement winning a league when you got 300 million in spare change to spend. Overrated and most likely wouldn't come anyway(thank god)

[bigmick]

And Mourinho worked with comparativly little money once when in Portugal but Porto was still the biggest team in the country by a mile having won the league like 10 times in a row and had the possibility to get the best portugese players and was on a high.

Look not wanting to derail the thread or anything, but why do you keep saying this even though you know it isn't true? This must be the fourth time you've repeated this, and each time I've pointed you in the direction of the relevent thread so you can read a few facts and stop talking nonsense.

If you can't be bothered to read it (Porto hadn't won the league title for four seasons before Mourinho went there) then simply don't mention it in the equation. It's akin to me saying we'd won the Champions League for the previous two seasons to Rafa getting here, so therefore his achievement in winning it means feck all.

Everyone's entitled to an opinion, but when it's based on a premise which is quite simply factually incorrect it just derails the whole discussion.

[account deleted by request]

Football is always a gamble mate. Who knew that Torres was going to be such a big success or that Morientes would be such a failure?  We could have stuck with Crouch and hoped against hope that he would be good enough. Sometimes you have to take the gamble if you want to progress. Maybe come the end of the season it will be time to gamble that a new manager can do better ?

We had a similar problem with Houllier, early success followed by a tightening of the purse strings when he was told to reduce the squad and then we stagnated, sometimes history repeats itself.  Should we have stuck with Houllier because changing manager is a gamble ?

Winning the league with record points, unbeaten at home in god knows how many years, 5 league titles in 6 years (one year out of football ) 8 cups in the same period including the CL. Yeah Mourinho is way overated   

[The_Rock]

All our yesterdays or all our tomorrows ?


Liverpool target Mourinho

By Graham Hunter

Liverpool want Portuguese coach Jose Mourinho as their new manager and have already sounded out the Porto boss about joining in the summer.

The Portuguese champions are resigned to losing the man who won them last season’s Uefa Cup and has taken them to the Champions League quarter final – and Mourinho has kept them informed about Liverpool’s offer.

The 40-year-old is Europe’s hottest talent, speaks flawless English and recently endeared himself to Liverpool fans by knocking Manchester United out of the Champions League – plus enraging Sir Alex Ferguson during a war of words which the Portuguese won hands down.

Porto believe that there has already been a direct meeting between the parties but think that Mourinho has not yet agreed to move to Anfield until he sees whether Porto can win the Champions League.

Mourinho believes himself to be ready to coach at the very highest level and has also been sounded out by Tottenham Hotspur.

At the time he said: “We were in Marseille for the Champions League and someone accredited to Tottenham spoke with me about moving right away to England.

“I told him if it was a proposition for next season then we could talk to see what could happen. But to play against Marseille and then start immediately at Spurs, I wouldn’t even listen to that invitation.”

But the Liverpool offer has attracted him at the moment and Porto expect him to accept and sign for them this summer it if no other firm offers come in.

One Porto director, who confirmed the contact but wished to remain anonymous, said: “Mourinho has done brilliantly for our club since he joined two years ago so we will not prevent him following his heart and moving to England. Our worry is that Mourinho is likely to want to take players like Paolo Ferreira, Ricardo Carvalho and Benni McCarthy with him which means the break up of what is a great team.”

Mourinho won the Portuguese treble of League, Cup and League Cup last season plus the Uefa Cup final in a 3-2 victory over Celtic in Seville.

This season Porto are unbeaten in Portugal, in the Cup final again, about to retain the Championship and set for the Champions League semi final after beating Lyon 2-0 in the first leg of the Quarter Final.

Mourinho started out as Sir Bobby Robson’s translator at Sporting Lisbon and Benfica and, despite no background in professional football, he was promoted by Robson to assistant coach. They worked together at Barcelona, winning the Spanish Cup, the Cup Winners Cup and the Spanish Supercup finishing second in the league to Real Madrid.

Mourinho stayed on at Barcelona when Robson left, confirmed as number two to Louis Van Gaal, but then moved back to Portugal after winning the Spanish title in 1999.

Brought in to save Porto in 2002 when the fallen giants had crashed down the Portuguese Championship the former language teacher worked the oracle and took them to the pinnacle of European football in under a year and a half.

Liverpool see him as the coming man of European football, someone who renowned as a master team-builder and a coach upon whom a dynasty can be rebuilt. Mourinho has often said that he desires to work for “one of England’s great sides” and is understood to have admitted that re-building Liverpool and returning them to Championship and Champions League winning form would be his dream.

28 March 2004     

Well........IMO we really should have gone with our 1st choice in 2004.

But like always (simao, vidic, ronaldo, villa, ramsey, barry,  (feel free to add whomever you want ) feckin parry got his 2nd target here. 

Quite an irony if you think about it.....ppl here keep complaining Benitez only gets his 2nd choice players and that he has to wheel and deal...when in the 1st place, bentiez wasn't even the 1st choice.... 

[Penguins]

And Mourinho worked with comparativly little money once when in Portugal but Porto was still the biggest team in the country by a mile having won the league like 10 times in a row and had the possibility to get the best portugese players and was on a high.

Look not wanting to derail the thread or anything, but why do you keep saying this even though you know it isn't true? This must be the fourth time you've repeated this, and each time I've pointed you in the direction of the relevent thread so you can read a few facts and stop talking nonsense.

If you can't be bothered to read it (Porto hadn't won the league title for four seasons before Mourinho went there) then simply don't mention it in the equation. It's akin to me saying we'd won the Champions League for the previous two seasons to Rafa getting here, so therefore his achievement in winning it means feck all.

Everyone's entitled to an opinion, but when it's based on a premise which is quite simply factually incorrect it just derails the whole discussion.

Duh, ok sorry but that does not dectract from the fact that Porto had 11 League titles under their belt from 85 to 99. That in my book makes them the team to beat and the powerhouse of that league no matter if they miss out 3 years. After the special one left, Porto has somehow mangaged to win the league every year since. But since it is so hard to win it must still be his doing...

It is the strongest easiest club to coach inside Portugal imo with the most resources.

17 titles in 25 years where the special one was there for 2 of those. I rest my case.

[bigmick]

Like I say lets stick to the subject matter as the threads not about anyone else. There was absolutely no need to introduce Mourinho into the equation anyway. Given you've finally decided to research Porto, you might want to put up in the Mourinho thread whether or not the UEFA Cup and then the Champions League wins in his two seasons at the helm of that club was good for them or par for the course.

Anyway lets net get into the blanket throwing, this thread is about whether or not the job of Liverpool manager is "doable" under the present circumstances.

[Owzat]

As I've said before, Rafa now "spends big" regardless whether his budget is that big and disregarding the squad overall. Krancjar was a big miss, perhaps because Rafa seems out of control in the transfer market. What were his spends in the summer? A RIGHT-BACK of all things, £17.5m on a player that wasn't necessarily the first priority and arguably contributed to Arbeloa going. He then got too big an offer to refuse for Alonso and had to replace him, so he goes for an injured Aquilani at £20m and STILL hasn't started him a week into December. Sami wanted to go, we only had two CBs plus injury prone Agger so Rafa hurriedly goes out and spends what he has on a CB few on here seem impressed with so far.

Why mention this? Because people make such a hoo ha about money etc and Rafa is hardly getting £3m a summer to spend and has his hands tied, that is near £40m and he got three players and the squad is still woefully thin. We could have done with a new striker, Riera seemed a decent buy the previous summer but I bet his fan club is diminishing as the Yossi fan club gains size and momentum.

But putting aside money, what about the weak tactics, faltering defensive system, inability to beat some of the lesser sides etc, not something that is a current issue but has been forever present. Sure we had a great season last season, but that still had flaws and I reckon a better manager would have brought us the title. Or do people believe that Rafa is the best manager in every department? I don't like talk of Hodgson, Klinsmann and McClueless any more than the next fan, but is sticking with something or someone because it does a decent job the solution? We want to, nay must, challenge for the league title and I refuse to believe there isn't anyone we can bring in who can't work in the current situation.

How many truly good results have we managed this season? None of the draws were impressive in the slightest, home draws against Brum and Citeh, an away draw against Blackburn. The wins have been mostly standard at best, two 1-0s over Debrecen, one over Leeds, some high scoring wins over strugglers Hull, over Burnley and Stoke which I guess you should call good, the win over the mancs was the pick with perhaps the win over the bitters second, but besides that we've won unimpressively 3-2 over Bolton and West Ham (who the mancs beat 4-0 on Saturday) Of our 10 wins you'd struggle to pick out more than two on impressiveness of the opposition beaten, maybe thrown in the big scores to bump the figure up.

People may refer to our injuries, well that is a bit of a cover up and that we had some key players absent detracts from a lack of squad size and player performances

PREMIERSHIP APPS 09/10

15 REINA, KUYT, BENAYOUN, Lucas
14 CARRAGHER, MASCHERANO, INSUA
13 JOHNSON,
12 GERRARD
11
10 TORRES, Skrtel

The players in CAPS are who would be in the first XI, or in the case of Insua acceptable alternative to Aurelio (perhaps until recently) So EIGHT of our first choice XI have played 12 out of 15 minimum, Torres has played 10 while Aquilani who I've considered first choice ahead of Lucas was bought unavailable and has not played by Rafa's choice so is his own fault. So I could consider Lucas his equivalent to bump that eight up to nine, add Skrtel as available and until this season many on here were happy with him - hardly an injury crisis

Might be a good time to point out Rafa has used 25 different players in the league this season, LB Dossena £7m has made one appearance as have Aquilani £20m, El Zhar, Spearing and Eccleston. Perhaps if the £27m those five cost between them had been better spent we could have players of the ability of Krancjar and others who cost less than the £7m our third or worse choice LB cost who we can't get shot of. I think part of our current problem is managers see Rafa wave wonga about and take him for a ride, or at least try to. Cynic in me suggests Rafa probably did ask about Krancjar and pompey saw him coming and bumped the £2m he was sold for up to £7m or £10m just because of who it was. This is the same side that wanted £17.5m for Johnson, I suspect that went through only because the owners feared the (reputed) debt would be hard to get back otherwise so figured they may as well spend an extra £10.5m on him than risk the £7m. Had it been £17.5m straight cash I reckon it might not have gone through. Johnson's a good player, but he's not a £17.5m RB and it still pains me that we spent half our budget on a RB and the other half on an injured CM who has yet to play 90 minutes or even start THREE months later.


So I say if we can find a manager who wheels and deals, convinces the decision makers of his tactical soundness and has all the attributes then I say why should we not find someone else. I'd rather try half a dozen managers and have half fail than stick with one who has yet to succeed at the main goal. We don't have a deadline to win the league, but after five seasons we're looking as far away from it as we were when Rafa started and arguably as far as we've been from winning the league under Evans and Houllier. Houllier wouldn't have won the league had he stayed longer, I don't see Rafa being any different.

[maypaxvobiscum]

thats a bloody good point by Owzat nail on the head especially the spending bit. and another excuse people often find for rafa is someone called "net spending" or whatever it is.

[tubby]

In 2005 we saw poor players like Biscan and Traore playing out of their skin. I don't know what's happened since then but not everyone seems to be giving 100%.

[Penguins]

You look at things so simplistic it is unbelievable.
It isn't solely on the manager if a club wins the title or not, but looking at what you write it seems like that.

Every time you write something about transfers it is always about the few(YES FEW) poor signings he has made and omit all the wonderful signings Rafa has made. There is not failproof manager out there who never make mistakes, be it tactically, or on players. But Rafa can do no right blindly believe that some other super manager out there will just comes in, with the current situation at the club, get all the bargains, make the team play perfect football and bring home the title.
Rafa spends big because he have to because our worst rivals spend big and we have to replace players that cost big money.

Same thing there. First you can whine that Rafa spends to much on squad players, quantity over quality and all that and then when he spends big on a few players it is all Rafa's fault for not seeing how thin the squad is.   

So he missed Krancjar. Like Harry ******* Redknapp never missed anyone. Besides we had Masch and Lucas and if he was so great why wewn't manure and chelksi after him?
Why do we always have to bargain chase?
And what if Krancjar would have failed?
Rafa would be burned at the stake for taking a gamble on a player from Portsmouth who hadn't really proved himself.

And about the 17,5 on a right back. We never paid that money cause of the money owed for Crouch and I believe Rafa in that interview after the signing in June that there was money for 2 or 3 more players and that something changed in the coming weeks after that.

And what is this "he got a too big an offer to refuse for Alonso"
Like Rafa wasn't know known for his coldness already, especially in the media. Nice reputation you get when you force players, who doesn't want to play for the club, to stay.
Not to mention the obvious risque of a fractured squad and players not playing to their potential and losing them for nothing later on.

I'll give Aquilani.  But if Rafa thought he had money to spend after the Johnson deal and was told he couldn't there was not much he could do about the replacement of Hyppia since there was no money!
You honestly think Rafa bought the Greek cause he wanted to even he had the money. Get a clue ffs.

The reason the squad is thin is that he lost 3 quality players and had to get quality back. If we had lost those players this summer and not got players of quality in Rafa would be hanged. So there was no money to both get quality replacement(surefire ones, not any chancetaking) and expand the squad.

In the PL there are becoming fewer and fewer "lesser sides".
Any team away is a handful nowadays and the better team you have the more chance you have of winning. You will never beat a "lesser side" always even if you have a better side.
But having a much better side with depth increases the chance of winning more regularly.

And about last season, where were you then?
We were doing really well, but that is sure well forgotten now.
Imo we have shown steady progress every damn year with some small bumps and now at the first sign of a real downturn
the managers head is asked for. Are we Newcastle?

Wins in our 2 most important fixtures isn't totally bad.

Well , I guess our injury problems havn't been that extremly worse than our rivals, but...
When our 20 million man Torres is out it is 1.5 million man Ngog in. When 17.5 million man Johnson is out it is ....who? Degen?
Kelly? Carra at rb?

When Manure has 27 million man Rooney out it is 30 million man Berbatov in. I could go on with Chelski also.
We have little depth and no, I blame the lack of funding more then Rafa since I don't see 30 million pound failings in his resume(Veron, Shevshenko etc) and all of his bigger signings have been successes.

Now you do it again, compare Rafa to this mister perfect who never wastes a penny. Picking out only the poor singings Rafa has made and say mr Perfect would have done great with the money that Rafa spent. and spotted every bargain there was, but only those who turns out great.

But you can't say "I'd rather try half a dozen managers and have half fail than stick with one..."

What if we(by that is mean those 2 morons who owns the club) picks one of the half that fails?
You make it sound like it is so easy to reach our main goal and that half the managers out there can do it.
Has it no occured to you that our club is still way behind the swines to the east? and not much in my book has changed these past 20 years and especially not since those 2 clowns took over.

Maybe it might not be possible to achive our potential as long as the boardroom looks like it does? Regardless of manger.
Has that thought ever occured to you?