Liverpool FC Forum

[GRAHAM01]

 

So maybe Stu has a point. I don't agree that Agger isn't good enough, but maybe if we strengthened by buying G.Milito we could afford to be a bit more expansive in our play.

ps Gerrard is not a second striker and never will be!

you make is sound like rafa doesn`t trust the defence to do there job and maybe you are right? but with the players we have he should be able to, yes have one holding midfielder like mass, sissoko, alonso (whoever) but let the others go and make the goals, let then free to add some flair, if we do lose a goal then at least we will have players that can turn it around like ( and i HATE to say this but the mancs ) they went behind in games but because they are aloud to play free flowing attacking football they got the goals needed to win the game

and that what we need for are team to play like we know they can

  as for gerrard up front i have to agree it takes to much from his game, he will play where ever his is put but play in where he should be and you will always get the best out of him being where he should be means he is just thinking about his game and playing how he should not thinking about where he should be and having to move in ways he would not be doing

[Sabre]

hay sabre  when yuor wrong 50% of the time it means your right 50% of the time so keep it up 

It also means a coin is as reliable as me to say if a player is good

No, seriously being right is not important for me. If I had known what amount of games and what kind of work would have been given Gonzalez and MOrientes I probably wouldn't have been that optimistic, but as I've said, the point is not being right or wrong, I guess that if Rafa brought them is because he thought they were good enough... my point is to give some info slightly more accurate than the hype that players like Torres has.

S@int makes a good point when he says that the success of the back four has a lot to do with the protection the system has provided to the back four, although I can tell aswell that if you don't work as a clock in the back four you concede goals anyway. It's a shared success undoubfully our record.

But we aren't defensive neither, we play lot of men on front of the ball, and we create quite a lot of danger, often leaving Alonso or any other player as the only cover for a counterattack. I think we're a balanced team, not reckless, nor too defensive.

Another CB? yes, quality? aswell, because we need quality in depth, but the toughest part of the Agger learning is done, he has answered well to the challenge (ask Gonzo whether it's easy to perform well in a top club) and I agree bigmick we should invest some patience in this player.

[GRAHAM01]

hay sabre  when yuor wrong 50% of the time it means your right 50% of the time so keep it up 

It also means a coin is as reliable as me to say if a player is good

 

i like that, can i use the same way to see if i have burger king or mc donalds for tea tonight 

[stmichael]

Personally, I think Agger is quality.

Amazes me how much credit Carragher gets in comparison to the bloke. Not saying that Carra doesn't deserve the credit, but the way some in the press here go along you'd think Agger is a mug and Carra drags him along by his bootlaces. Agger is a great defender in his own right and has got the potenial to become even better in the next few years. Ooh, and he's got 4 goals this season from centreback. Just think of what he'll be like when we get a decent, regular set piece taker.

Look around Europe and try and find a young defender in his league. Albiol and Ramos are the only two that come remotely close in the same age group.

If he was Italian he'd be considered the heir to Nesta, Maldini and perhaps even Baresi. If he was English then christ knows what the circus would be like, taking into account 'Rio Beckenbauer'.

[GRAHAM01]

i think agger is a good player and will be even better this coming season, yes if we can get cover get it as we can always do with extra incase one gets injured

just like poor old chelske last year when they lost there best player then another one got injured and again they had lost there best player 

but ya more cover is always good

[Stu.Murph]

Stu has a historical mistrust of Agger which is fair enough, but I disagree with him. I think he is just about the best young centre half around right now and in a position where you usually don't show your best form until your late twenties, he has all the chances in the World to develop into a fantastic ball playing defender.

He's never going to be a muscular enforcer a la Vidic, but there's more than one way to skin a cat and what I like about Agger is the way he's a quick learner. In the first leg of the Champions League semi he got muscled out of it for the goal by Drogba  but in the second leg, his body position was almost 100% in every situation in which they came together and he played the best centre forward in the Premeirship brilliantly. He allowed him one chance in the match, a call on an offside where he let Drogba run off him early on which proved to be marginally incorrect. No, there's no problem at all for me with Agger. It's actually going to be interesting to see just how much better he could become. He is in my opinion one of Benitez's many excellent signings, and probably amongst the very best value.

That said, it's true we need at least one centre half in all probablility. If Hyppia is sold (which would be a huge mistake in my view) then we need two. Based on the couple of times they appeared last season, I have grave reservations about whether Hobbs is ready to make the step up as of yet, and frankly whether Palletta ever will.

Sitting on the fence with regards to Palletta? A blind man can see he has no chance, I'm probably a better centre half than him. He's a joke of a player.

And I can't quite understand what everyone see's in Agger that makes people think he's something special. Again I will say he's not in the top 5 or six in the league. Infact, I personally don't even think he's in the top two at LFC.

[Bad Bob]

Signing a top class CB is most certainly not a priority in my books.  Agger's up to the job, Hyypia's staying as cover, we're not likely to change our system any time soon regardless of who we sign so the defensive solidity will remain and, perhaps most importantly, the transfer fees being discussed for the kinds of attacking players that we do need to sign will drain whatever kitty Rafa is handed and prevent him from splashing out for an established player in that position anyway.  A promising CB is more than likely going to be on next summer's shopping list rather than this summer's.

[Sabre]

And I can't quite understand what everyone see's in Agger that makes people think he's something special.

I'm a normal football supporter, not big knowledge, but I'm 31 and I've seen quite many CB making debuts, playing 2 years and the dissapearing of the scene.

Maybe it's because there are not many quality CB in Spain nowadays, but I rate Agger highly.

It IS special to be the CB of a top club, as those are teams that do not sit deep, and the back four must be spot on. It is special being the CB of a top club and not to be intimidated. It is special to replace a long term CB like Hyypia and nobody saying we miss Hyypia.

It is special the way he takes the ball upwards himself, which is very handy when our midfielders are closely watched. It is special to shoot a powerful blast from range as if he was a midfielder. And it is very special to do this things, in a top club like Liverpool, and without having 200 games in your experience pocket. That's what I see of Agger. I see him as a complete player, and I even think he could play out of natural postition as a holding mid much better than many holding mids of the league.

Mistakes? of course, he's learning. He has not the aggression of Carraguer, nor his experience, but that's what the other mate in the four back is for, to complement you.

[Stu.Murph]

Our defensive stats look good, but our defence also has probably the best cover from our midfield of any top team. Most teams (in England)have one creative midfielder and one defensive midfielder (Carrick and Scholes, Essien or Makelele and Lampard)or if they play with two defensive midfielders two wingers. We have played Alonso and Hamman/Sissoko/Mascherano most of the time. Allied to this we have tended to play only one winger with more usually a left or right midfielder on the other side, and our forwards( plus Gerrard) dropping back to help.

While this is great from a defensive point of view it does tend to restrict our attacking options as the lack of creativity can lead to frustration when we conceed first. Unless we add more creativity by introducing a creative player or playing with two wingers I dont think we will see our strikers (whoever they are next season) getting enough goals to make the difference we need.   

So maybe Stu has a point. I don't agree that Agger isn't good enough, but maybe if we strengthened by buying G.Milito we could afford to be a bit more expansive in our play.

ps Gerrard is not a second striker and never will be!

Not to mention Kuyt, Crouch and Bellamy who all do there share of pressing as did Baros before them and then theres Gerrard who is probably one of the best tacklers in world football.

People can't seem to understand that point though.

People bang on about wanting us to play "attacking football", so what they are effectively saying is we currently play defensively so I ask what would the defensive record be like if we played in an attacking mannor? What would it be like if we didn't have three ball winners in midfield and two strikers who work harder than just about any others in the league?

[grayghost]

If Agger was english the country would be raving about him kind of what is happening to S Taylor from Newcastle. Agger has bags of potental unlike Palleta who seems like a yard dog and will not make the grade.

CB is the one postion were abilty caunts  less and experiance more so. Agger certanly has the abilty and in time will have the experiance and will become a even better player.

[Stu.Murph]

 

So maybe Stu has a point. I don't agree that Agger isn't good enough, but maybe if we strengthened by buying G.Milito we could afford to be a bit more expansive in our play.

ps Gerrard is not a second striker and never will be!

you make is sound like rafa doesn`t trust the defence to do there job and maybe you are right? but with the players we have he should be able to, yes have one holding midfielder like mass, sissoko, alonso (whoever) but let the others go and make the goals, let then free to add some flair, if we do lose a goal then at least we will have players that can turn it around like ( and i HATE to say this but the mancs ) they went behind in games but because they are aloud to play free flowing attacking football they got the goals needed to win the game

and that what we need for are team to play like we know they can

  as for gerrard up front i have to agree it takes to much from his game, he will play where ever his is put but play in where he should be and you will always get the best out of him being where he should be means he is just thinking about his game and playing how he should not thinking about where he should be and having to move in ways he would not be doing

The mancs play that way because they have the quality to play that way.

We have no players in the final third that are remotely close to Saha, Rooney, Ronaldo, Giggs or Scholes.

Our best attacking player is only good (not great) going forward has an equally good defensive side to his game. Says it all.

[66-1112520797]

As Redtrader74 pointed out, it seems as though Hyypia will stay on next season, I remember reading the quotes from Hyypia saying that. So if Hyypia does stay on next season, I dont see the need to go out and buy another CH now. I think that can wait until next summer .... The search for a CH, as now I think our priorites should lie elsewhere in the transfer market this summer.

As for Agger I think he's fine, no he isnt the best CH half in the world, but it doesnt mean he isnt a good one. Him and Carra compliment eachother perfectly and perhaps he wouldnt of had such a good season if it wasnt for Carra's guidance. But he's still young and I think he will improve and get better with age.

so I ask what would the defensive record be like if we played in an attacking mannor?

Theres only one way to find out.

Play Agger at the back with a more attacking mind and see what happens.

But I doubt it will happen as Rafa doesnt seem the type of manager to set out a team week in week out against any opposition and play attacking football. I think his tactics at times stiffle the way we play in all honesty.

[Stu.Murph]

Personally, I think Agger is quality.

Amazes me how much credit Carragher gets in comparison to the bloke. Not saying that Carra doesn't deserve the credit, but the way some in the press here go along you'd think Agger is a mug and Carra drags him along by his bootlaces. Agger is a great defender in his own right and has got the potenial to become even better in the next few years. Ooh, and he's got 4 goals this season from centreback. Just think of what he'll be like when we get a decent, regular set piece taker.

Look around Europe and try and find a young defender in his league. Albiol and Ramos are the only two that come remotely close in the same age group.

If he was Italian he'd be considered the heir to Nesta, Maldini and perhaps even Baresi. If he was English then christ knows what the circus would be like, taking into account 'Rio Beckenbauer'.

Aggers a good player with alot of good attributes.

Not a great player, never will be. To compare him to Ferdinand is absoloutely laughable as Rio is twice the player and one of the best in europe.

*Cue the Rio lacks concentration *

[stmichael]

We need to also remember that Arbeloa will be cover for the whole back four.  Imo, this kind of player is essential in your squad.

Carragher is no longer this player for us as he is our main centre-back now, so it's important we have somebody else who is. The ludicrous thought of using him as a full-back is fortunately restricted to the International set-up. He's not good enough on the ball to make it as a full-back, especially on his weaker left-side. It worked OK for Houllier because he didn't ask anything of him in an attacking sense.

Arbeloa is a lot better on the ball and as we saw with his goal against Reading at the Madejski playing left-back, along with the assist for Crouch's first goal against Arsenal playing right-back, he is a good asset in the attacking third.

I think he needs to adapt to this league still. He endured a couple of dodgy moments in the last couple of games of the league campaign. I think this merely serves as a reminder that he requires a settling in period - expectations after he marked Messi out of the two ties against Barcelona in the CL were too high. We can't expect him to take to the Premiership quite so comfortably as he did in Europe - where he was playing at a pace he clearly prefers.

A great player to have in your squad and it wouldn't surprise me if we saw him play at centre-back on several occasions next season, as Paletta's settling in period continues and Sami continues to age.

[redtrader74]

Rio lacks concentration