Liverpool FC Forum

[Sabre]

It's ok Mick. Since my predictions are about 50/50 ( I was right about Alonso, and right about Reina) I've decided to be negative on predictions. Thus, if I'm right I'm right, and if I'm wrong, at least it will mean it's good for the club.

Anyhow, we should remember what was mentioned in this forum a year ago about Kuyt, he was "the expected one" aswell, since Morientes was a failure. It seems he wasn't  the saviour neither, and we're going to try with another one. Torres? I like Kuyt more.

[Bad Bob]

Who ever we sign this summer--be it Torres or someone else--will have a lot of expectation to live up to.  I hope people will keep things in perspective, though, and not expect miracles from any one new player.  If Torres comes in and injects some pace and skill into our attack, works well with Kuyt and Crouch and the midfielders, and bags around 15 goals, I'll be happy.  Ultimately, we're looking for a player who can bring the best out of the team as well as make telling contributions himself.  We are not looking for someone to come in and carry the team on his back.

[stmichael]

if Rafa is going to spend that kind of money on him, and/or the Brazilian bloke who plays for Roma who I must confess I've never heard of, I'm willing to bet they've got a more than even chance of making the grade.

Just to sum up Mancini Mick.

He plays on either flank but he's spent most of last season on the left. However he can play at rightback, as a support-striker and as a striker aswell.

Who needs Gerrard?

[66-1112520797]

I'm willing to bet they've got a more than even chance of making the grade.

Hand on heart, I couldnt say that. Rafa has got his fair share of bad buys at Liverpool in the short amount of time he's been here. Admittedly he's brought some good too before anyone jumps on my back, but like Torres, Kuyt before him doesnt fill my with confidence or excitment in Rafa's choice of player.

[Sabre]

Who ever we sign this summer--be it Torres or someone else--will have a lot of expectation to live up to.  I hope people will keep things in perspective, though, and not expect miracles from any one new player.  If Torres comes in and injects some pace and skill into our attack, works well with Kuyt and Crouch and the midfielders, and bags around 15 goals, I'll be happy.  Ultimately, we're looking for a player who can bring the best out of the team as well as make telling contributions himself.  We are not looking for someone to come in and carry the team on his back.

Are we not?

This is a short, but maybe the best post I've read as of late BadBob.

Probably in Rafa's mind Torres, or whoever comes won't be the "most important of our strikers" but a striker that adds quality to the set of strikers.

IMHO, Rafa rates highly Kuyt and Crouch. I think he sees the striker force as a set, meaning,

This set <Kuyt,Crouch,Bellamy,Fowler> is worse than <Kuyt,Crouch,Torres,Voronin>

The problem is that many fans expect a 25 goals player, minimum, with 4 or 5 hat tricks thorough out the season.

But I think the right perspective is to look at the striker force as a set. If Torres is gonna replace the pace that Bellamy provides, then I'm happy with Torres, as he's miles better.

If Torres is expected to be the panacea of strikers, the one and only, a new Owen at his best, then I preffer to be negative and pessimistic.  Since that is what many are expecting, I preffer to chill down people. 

[stmichael]

The problem is that many fans expect a 25 goals player, minimum, with 4 or 5 hat tricks thorough out the season.

Been saying it for ages. This whole notion that a "20 goals a season" striker is what we need to win the League is a myth. Very few players have ever scored 20 Premiership goals in a season on a consistent basis. The only ones that come to mind are Shearer, Henry and Van Nistelrooy. Andy Johnson did it for a team that got relegated but scored about 11 penalties. Owen, for all his quality never achieved it.

People are getting a bit hung up on us signing a 20 goal a season striker when if you look at the stats, its the midfield who have been a most limp when it comes to putting the ball in the net.

[Stu.Murph]

We DESPERATELY NEED a centre half and two strikers. Withtout those players, we aren't going to improve a great deal next season.

But the defensive numbers of the team do not suggest we're failing in the back four do they?

Maybe be I'd bring a top class centre back in order to replace Hyypia now his cycle is coming to an end, but can't say the back four has been a problem this years.

Agger is not good enough.

A good player yes, good enough? Not to play with Carragher he's not.

We need better.

People bang on about the defensive record... I'm sorry, but the reason that record is so good is because the way we play.

We're without question one of the hardest teams to play against in the country due to our ability to keep possession and defend from the front. As individuals the backline isn't spectactular and lacks a really top defender like a Hyypia, Woodgate, Ferdinand to command the line and win first balls.

We have a good defence, a top class centre half will make it a very strong defence.

[Sabre]

We need better. Right. Better is always a good thing.

Better like who?. Lemme see, in the Spanish league... Cannavaro. Cannavaro is better, Terry is better but plays for an archenemy, Ayala is getting old... who is better and affordable? It would be very expensive, is our need that big so that we have to pay a lot for a CB? our numbers do not suggest so, but if you have a good suggestion about how to improve the CB (I don't know well the english league) let me know.


GAby Milito might be better than Agger aswell NOW, but then again Juventus is gonna pay a very important sum.

Agger is worse than those, but he will be better than some of those, Milito for instance. No doubt. Haven't we got the time to work with him? fair enough, but I think we should, it's a good investment, and a future player of many millions.

[redtrader74]

Agger's position is the least of our worries, our defensive record would attest to that. He has been good enough to put Hypia on the bench. The difference between Ferdinand and Agger imo is only physical, Ferdinand is nothing special positionally nor is he brave, so i think it worth our while to work on his physical strength.

Our priority is forwards, that is where we are lacking, that is what cost us the CL final, i can't see our budget allowing a big spend on a CB, with the obvious weaknesses up front that need filling.

[mr_weed_80@hotmail.com]

i personally think wingers are more important
however for the people that are focused on a new centre back, what about ledley king. i rate him so highly as do a lot of people.
even Henry stated that King was the hardest defender he has ever come up against as he will never fowl yet will consistently gather the ball from the opponents.

might be quite expensive though
hit me with your criticism, i'm ready

[bigmick]

Stu has a historical mistrust of Agger which is fair enough, but I disagree with him. I think he is just about the best young centre half around right now and in a position where you usually don't show your best form until your late twenties, he has all the chances in the World to develop into a fantastic ball playing defender.

He's never going to be a muscular enforcer a la Vidic, but there's more than one way to skin a cat and what I like about Agger is the way he's a quick learner. In the first leg of the Champions League semi he got muscled out of it for the goal by Drogba  but in the second leg, his body position was almost 100% in every situation in which they came together and he played the best centre forward in the Premeirship brilliantly. He allowed him one chance in the match, a call on an offside where he let Drogba run off him early on which proved to be marginally incorrect. No, there's no problem at all for me with Agger. It's actually going to be interesting to see just how much better he could become. He is in my opinion one of Benitez's many excellent signings, and probably amongst the very best value.

That said, it's true we need at least one centre half in all probablility. If Hyppia is sold (which would be a huge mistake in my view) then we need two. Based on the couple of times they appeared last season, I have grave reservations about whether Hobbs is ready to make the step up as of yet, and frankly whether Palletta ever will.

[whylongball?]

I actually agree with Weed...Good wingers would bring out a lot more from our strikers (whoever plays) and the team in terms of goals and assists. Many times in a games our strikers didn't have any decent chance at all..No penetration no creativity in the final third!
Wingers should be 1st priority then strikers...A CB is last on my list if you ask me

[redtrader74]

I'm sure i heard that Hyppia was staying, he was quoted as saying Rafa wanted him here for at least one more season. Although it may be prudent to get another CB in, it isn't a priority with Hyppia staying. Mick i don't see why Agger cannot add 'muscular enforcer' string to his bow aswell, that requires nothing but time in the gym. Good point on the Agger/Drogba, he could have tried to hide after Drogbas pounding in the first leg, but put himself up for taking the chance at the free kick, and adjusted his game to mark Drogba again, showing real character and heart, some of the most important attributes needed by a top cb.

[GRAHAM01]

It's ok Mick. Since my predictions are about 50/50 ( I was right about Alonso, and right about Reina) I've decided to be negative on predictions. Thus, if I'm right I'm right, and if I'm wrong, at least it will mean it's good for the club.

Anyhow, we should remember what was mentioned in this forum a year ago about Kuyt, he was "the expected one" aswell, since Morientes was a failure. It seems he wasn't  the saviour neither, and we're going to try with another one. Torres? I like Kuyt more.

hay sabre  when yuor wrong 50% of the time it means your right 50% of the time so keep it up 

some one said kuyt was ment to be the big 20+ goal getter for last season and that it did not happen as he may not be that type of player, but when you think he had to hold back in midfield for long parts of some games instead of being up top where he should be. i think this is why his tally was lower than expected, him having to step back in to the midfield will not need to happen this season if we get some better wingers like maldini who will be pushing the other defence back, this will mean kuyt will be in front of goal and imho will get a much higher tally as will any other stricker we get

better playres = more chances/openings

[account deleted by request]

Our defensive stats look good, but our defence also has probably the best cover from our midfield of any top team. Most teams (in England)have one creative midfielder and one defensive midfielder (Carrick and Scholes, Essien or Makelele and Lampard)or if they play with two defensive midfielders two wingers. We have played Alonso and Hamman/Sissoko/Mascherano most of the time. Allied to this we have tended to play only one winger with more usually a left or right midfielder on the other side, and our forwards( plus Gerrard) dropping back to help.

While this is great from a defensive point of view it does tend to restrict our attacking options as the lack of creativity can lead to frustration when we conceed first. Unless we add more creativity by introducing a creative player or playing with two wingers I dont think we will see our strikers (whoever they are next season) getting enough goals to make the difference we need.   

So maybe Stu has a point. I don't agree that Agger isn't good enough, but maybe if we strengthened by buying G.Milito we could afford to be a bit more expansive in our play.

ps Gerrard is not a second striker and never will be!