Liverpool FC Forum

[LFC #1]

But though we lack the flair of a Man Utd or an Arsenal, we have enough in our locker in my view to beat the lesser teams who set up to defend against us. It's not necessarily the personel, I think it's more the mentality. From central midfield for instance, Man Utd would have Scholes, who has been one of the best goal scoring midfielders in the history of the Premeirship bombing forward, and Carrick sitting. If you try and blanket them out though, Carrick will push on as well and put you under lots of pressure.

This notion of your hoding midfielder (or in our case sometimes two of them) breaking the shackles and getting forward against circumspect teams is a fairly modern developement, but a welcome one as teams have learnt to also compress with their attacking players and make themselves very difficult to break down. Gilberto Silva's scoring record this season was nothing short of amazing, and highlights how our own Alonso, Masherono, and Sissoko have much more to contribute. For me it's not necessarily about flair as in doing step overs, it's about being in and around the box and having players who are prepared to hit a space and score a goal. I'll grant anybody that if we play Crouch and Kuyt together we lack a bit of pace and they are a bit samey, but with the addition of a more mobile natural finisher we wouldn't be incapable of breaking almost any team down given the desire to do so. I've said it a couple of times that it is a real shame that Luis Garcia is not just a bit more physical and consistently better at protecting the ball. I really think that off the front man he would score an absolute heap of goals as he is as natural a mover in and around the box as we've had for many a year. Certainly only Fowler could have held a candle to him this season, and if we are finally to trade him for that elusive "spark" striker, I for one will be sad to see him go.

On the point of 'flair', I still think we lack that creativity necessary to break very well organised teams like Bolton down consistently, particularly away from home where your point about mentality definitely holds true, we just don't go at some sides enough. We set up not to lose rather than to win.

At Anfield we are usually good enough to score and we hardly concede anyway so thats' why our record has been so good. I still maintain that we need more creativity though. Our strikers just aren't creative at all. Crouch and Kuyt can hardly be defined as creaive and Bellmay is largely ineffective when teams defend deep. TBH Fowler was by far and away our most creative player up front. In midfield, Gerrard and Kewell are the two who I would deem being creative in the final third, particularly in and around the box - more so Kewell, Gerrard is never going to a creative threat in the mould of Riquelme, Aimar, Kaka, Ronaldinho.

For me if Kewell got fit and firing and we were to sign a player like Tevez to play in the hole in addition to a top quality striker like Villa or Eto'o we could win the league.

[LFC #1]

I agree there is some lack of creativity in the final third, but even if we get that, without a top striker who will take the one/two chances they may get then we will experience the Andy cole syndrome with the strikers we do.

Exactly what I'm saying, well put.

That is the reason for me why we need to sign two strikers. Tevez woule be my no1 priority, as he'd give us that added creativity and even Kuyt, Crouch etc woudl score enough goals with Tevez adding 12-15 that we'd vastly improve as a side. Add to the fact that the lad has a brilliant attitude to the game, is loyal, passionate and has adapted to the Premiership and you have a cracking player. He'd be worth every penny of 25-30 million IMO.   

As I said above, Tevez, a quality goalscorer and a fit and firing Kewell would turn us into a top top side. My fear is though that we will only sign one striker as Voronin has also been signed for reasons that only Rafa must know.

[roberto green]

though we lack the flair of a Man Utd or an Arsenal, we have enough in our locker in my view to beat the lesser teams who set up to defend against us. It's not necessarily the personel, I think it's more the mentality. From central midfield for instance, Man Utd would have Scholes, who has been one of the best goal scoring midfielders in the history of the Premeirship bombing forward, and Carrick sitting. If you try and blanket them out though, Carrick will push on as well and put you under lots of pressure.

This notion of your hoding midfielder (or in our case sometimes two of them) breaking the shackles and getting forward against circumspect teams is a fairly modern developement, but a welcome one as teams have learnt to also compress with their attacking players and make themselves very difficult to break down. Gilberto Silva's scoring record this season was nothing short of amazing, and highlights how our own Alonso, Masherono, and Sissoko have much more to contribute. For me it's not necessarily about flair as in doing step overs, it's about being in and around the box and having players who are prepared to hit a space and score a goal. I'll grant anybody that if we play Crouch and Kuyt together we lack a bit of pace and they are a bit samey, but with the addition of a more mobile natural finisher we wouldn't be incapable of breaking almost any team down given the desire to do so. I've said it a couple of times that it is a real shame that Luis Garcia is not just a bit more physical and consistently better at protecting the ball. I really think that off the front man he would score an absolute heap of goals as he is as natural a mover in and around the box as we've had for many a year. Certainly only Fowler could have held a candle to him this season, and if we are finally to trade him for that elusive "spark" striker, I for one will be sad to see him go.                                                                                                                                                                                                                   ____ I conpletelley agree with your opinion,I think liverpool need that extra bit of creativity,luis garcia is the nearest forward that would break into that mould but sadly isnt consistent enough.For some reason rafa goes for the work horse type striker before he will go for the striker that will pop up with a goal every game and not work for the team as much as the kuyt`s and crouches,but liverpool havent had a striker who you know woulg get you a goal every other game like owen and at the price he is allowed to go for why not give him a shot 9m its a snip especially compared to bent.it would also free some more fund for othe areas.My personal preference would be owen-and tevez this would be a devastating forwad line and one we could afford.

[Bad Bob]

I still don't think drastic surgery is required to make us title challengers.  The addition of a proven striker and a quality winger would see our attacking play come on in leaps and bounds in my opinion.  Some people seem to think we need to sign superstars in 4 or 5 positions this summer to be anywhere near the top but I don't feel that way.  Let's get 2 or 3 in max. this summer and bed them in during preseason.  Then we can work on getting out the blocks faster (and, yes, that includes less rotation but also relies on our key players staying injury free and finding something near their top form) and see where we sit come May.  If we still fall short but give it a real go, I'll consider it progress and then we can look to add a couple more quality players to the team next summer.  It bears recalling that not even Chelsea assembled their entire title winning squad in one transfer window!  The notion that the sky is falling and we are doomed if we don't throw 50-70 million pounds into transfers this summer is not giving our current crop of players near enough credit, IMHO.

[Stu.Murph]

I still don't think drastic surgery is required to make us title challengers.  The addition of a proven striker and a quality winger would see our attacking play come on in leaps and bounds in my opinion.  Some people seem to think we need to sign superstars in 4 or 5 positions this summer to be anywhere near the top but I don't feel that way.  Let's get 2 or 3 in max. this summer and bed them in during preseason.  Then we can work on getting out the blocks faster (and, yes, that includes less rotation but also relies on our key players staying injury free and finding something near their top form) and see where we sit come May.  If we still fall short but give it a real go, I'll consider it progress and then we can look to add a couple more quality players to the team next summer.  It bears recalling that not even Chelsea assembled their entire title winning squad in one transfer window!  The notion that the sky is falling and we are doomed if we don't throw 50-70 million pounds into transfers this summer is not giving our current crop of players near enough credit, IMHO.

Bob thats the exact point mate. We don't need major surgery. But we need absoloute class to come in to take us to another level. People bang on about options, and options of course are great...

But if someone said, for example... 6 years ago...

Would you swap Owen for Crouch and Bellamy (as they are now) you'd have probably been laughed at and told them to do one... Even though you'd be getting a similar paced player and a player who will offer you alot more in terms of holding the ball up.

We need class players and also, to move out the weaker players.

We need at least two strikers and a centre back to move to the next level. We also need Kewell to stay fit or a replacement of better quality.

To me, Reina, Finnan, Riise, Carragher, Gerrard, Alonso, Kewell, Pennant is the basis of an excellent first 11 with the right additions.

You've got defensive solidity, pace, power, creativety, flair, work ethic, players who can beat a man, crosses and the goals of Riise and Gerrard. I also think Kewell's capable of scoring a few goals with his head and by getting into the box.

Two strikers who can consistently score goals with the correct attributes to get the best out of Pennant, Gerrard, Alonso and Kewell and a centre half who can head a ball and score a goal aswell as defend properly would see us become a very strong side both physically and tactically while still having a good level of technical ability.

A player like Ashton would bring Gerrard into play much the same way Crouch does while he can also attack a ball properly and offer an arial threat. He's intelligent enough to play with his back to goal aswell and bring wingers into play (something which Crouch dosen't do). Another striker like Anelka, can drop deep, run the channels, link up with wingers and get on the end of through balls from Gerrard, Alonso, Ashton and Kewell etc. The strikers are without doubt the most pressing area, but untill we sign a top centre half to play with Carragher, we'll continue to conceed goals away from home.

[Bad Bob]

I still don't think drastic surgery is required to make us title challengers.  The addition of a proven striker and a quality winger would see our attacking play come on in leaps and bounds in my opinion.  Some people seem to think we need to sign superstars in 4 or 5 positions this summer to be anywhere near the top but I don't feel that way.  Let's get 2 or 3 in max. this summer and bed them in during preseason.  Then we can work on getting out the blocks faster (and, yes, that includes less rotation but also relies on our key players staying injury free and finding something near their top form) and see where we sit come May.  If we still fall short but give it a real go, I'll consider it progress and then we can look to add a couple more quality players to the team next summer.  It bears recalling that not even Chelsea assembled their entire title winning squad in one transfer window!  The notion that the sky is falling and we are doomed if we don't throw 50-70 million pounds into transfers this summer is not giving our current crop of players near enough credit, IMHO.

Bob thats the exact point mate. We don't need major surgery. But we need absoloute class to come in to take us to another level. People bang on about options, and options of course are great...

But if someone said, for example... 6 years ago...

Would you swap Owen for Crouch and Bellamy (as they are now) you'd have probably been laughed at and told them to do one... Even though you'd be getting a similar paced player and a player who will offer you alot more in terms of holding the ball up.

We need class players and also, to move out the weaker players.

We need at least two strikers and a centre back to move to the next level. We also need Kewell to stay fit or a replacement of better quality.

To me, Reina, Finnan, Riise, Carragher, Gerrard, Alonso, Kewell, Pennant is the basis of an excellent first 11 with the right additions.

You've got defensive solidity, pace, power, creativety, flair, work ethic, players who can beat a man, crosses and the goals of Riise and Gerrard. I also think Kewell's capable of scoring a few goals with his head and by getting into the box.

Two strikers who can consistently score goals with the correct attributes to get the best out of Pennant, Gerrard, Alonso and Kewell and a centre half who can head a ball and score a goal aswell as defend properly would see us become a very strong side both physically and tactically while still having a good level of technical ability.

A player like Ashton would bring Gerrard into play much the same way Crouch does while he can also attack a ball properly and offer an arial threat. He's intelligent enough to play with his back to goal aswell and bring wingers into play (something which Crouch dosen't do). Another striker like Anelka, can drop deep, run the channels, link up with wingers and get on the end of through balls from Gerrard, Alonso, Ashton and Kewell etc. The strikers are without doubt the most pressing area, but untill we sign a top centre half to play with Carragher, we'll continue to conceed goals away from home.

I broadly agree with you, Stu, that with 3 astute signings, we'll put ourselves in a position to challenge.  For me, though, a wide player is just more imperative than a CB this summer just because Kewell's fitness is such an x-factor.

[redmikey]

good shout at ashton stu but i don't think west ham are in a place where they will need to let players go and the price would be out of this world

and would ashton give you so much more than dirk ?

remember that dirk will be in his second season now and has had the time needed to settle at our pace , imho i think dirk works for the team too much at time and neglects his role as goal getter but this must be by rafa's decree

[LFC2007]

Getting the consistency right:


1) Clear out Gonzales, Zenden and Dudek.


2) Sign 2 to 3 top quality players this summer, players with character. IMO a left mid and a striker, a centre back is not an urgent priority in my view - if the money is there for one and a player good enough is available then we should consider it. I'm happy with Agger, Carra and Hyypia. A versatile defender who can also play at right back as well as centre back would be my preference If we are going to re-enforce tha defence, I don't see Arbeloa as adequate for the right side - although I may be proven wrong. I consider a right winger also another priority, if we managed to sign Mancini that would be ideal as he can manage playing on both wings. I don't see signing two strikers as an urgent priority either, I disagree with Stu about Anelka, although I do admire Ashton as a young quality English player. If you ask me I'd take one top quality striker, Owen if needs be, Tevez preferrably. Sign an experienced keeper as backup.


3) A good pre-season, maybe going to Asia as well as playing all these other friendlies is too much - I don't know. We'll have to see. I'd say rotate up until the last two friendlies where a full srength side should be played in order to have some coherence going into the first game.


4) Less rotation generally, especially in the league. Europe is understandable since it is more tactical from game to game. In matches away from home in the league I'd like to see us take the initiative and play our own game instead of trying to stifle the opposition into submission. Our midfielders, Alonso in particular need to contribute more in support going forward, IMO our midfield as a whole need to score more goals. Gerrard in the centre from the beginning this time should help us do this. A fit Kewell will be a massive asset IMO, either him or a new quality left mid would give us a balance that we lacked last season, partly due to rotation but also due to the injuries of Riise and Aurelio. Up front I'd like to see Kuyt and another top striker, if I had to choose it would be Tevez, with Kuyt playing in a slightly more advanced role. It depends entirely on who we sign in order to analyse who would make a better partnership up front.


5) Show more character and belief away from home, psychologically we seem to freeze in certain games e.g. mancs away. Competition from better quality players who have more experience should help us do this IMO.


6) Finally, get behind the team from the word go, like we always do.

[redtrader74]

If we are talking 'absolute pure class' then the names Anelka and Ashton do not come to mind. Anelka has a level of class but he's a journeyman, plays well in pockets and for short periods, a risk he will want to leave, a risk he will cause rifts aswell. Ashtons level is only very slightly better than what we have, although pacey in a straight line, nor very mobile/athletic. Tevez would in my opinion spark the whole team to another level of performance. SG would have some competition in who's best, his pace and ball carrying would open up defences and create space for the other forwards. There is no need to spend on a CB, Agger is more than able, our priority lies in at least one striker and versatile winger, and they must be of world beating quality.

[Stu.Murph]

If we are talking 'absolute pure class' then the names Anelka and Ashton do not come to mind. Anelka has a level of class but he's a journeyman, plays well in pockets and for short periods, a risk he will want to leave, a risk he will cause rifts aswell. Ashtons level is only very slightly better than what we have, although pacey in a straight line, nor very mobile/athletic. Tevez would in my opinion spark the whole team to another level of performance. SG would have some competition in who's best, his pace and ball carrying would open up defences and create space for the other forwards. There is no need to spend on a CB, Agger is more than able, our priority lies in at least one striker and versatile winger, and they must be of world beating quality.

Absoloutely laughable.

The plain ignorance is an embarressment and a clear indicator of why the blueshite say "kopites are ".

Not one of you can see the teams faults and you will always have the same mode of thought... we're only one or two players away.... WE AREN'T! Simple.

For once... in the 05/06 season, we finished the season only 2-3 players away... maybe the odd first backup player aswell but I'm on about first team...

Come that summer though, Rafa spent £30,000,000 and managed to weaken the squad now taking us to 4-6 players away.

Compare the team in the season just gone to the one before... absoloutely no contest what so ever, in terms of personel, style and quality of play.

Rafa has alot to get right this summer...

[LFC2007]

You agreed with Bob in the post above saying "that's the exact point we don't need major surgery" (Bob saying we only need 2 or 3 max) and now you're saying we're 4 to 6 players away, which is it?


As for bluesh!te, I couldn't give a rats ars,e what they think of us, what have they won recently?

[redtrader74]

I have heard verbal diarreah and have now read keyboard diarreah. You obviously just post for the sake of it. I think we need 2 top class players to move towards the title in the guise of Tevez, Mancini, Villa, Torres, you think three, two of which are Anelka and Ashton, now that is laughable, neither is top class.

First you agree we don't need major work, and need 3 players, now its 4-6, which is it? can't mystic stu make his mind up?

You are the only one that can see that Agger is rubbish, when he ousted Hyppia, you are the only one who thinks that last years sqaud was better than this years, a team that moved serenely into the CL final.
Obviously you think going against the grain for the sake of it makes you look clever, well it doesn't.

Who gives a monkeys about the bitters? whats that got to do with Liverpool?

You allude to it enough, but why don't you just come out and say that you don't rate Rafa, come on admit it lad, you'd get more respect.

[Stu.Murph]

You agreed with Bob in the post above saying "that's the exact point we don't need major surgery" (Bob saying we only need 2 or 3 max) and now you're saying we're 4 to 6 players away, which is it?


As for bluesh!te, I couldn't give a rats ars,e what they think of us, what have they won recently?

so you class 4-6 players as major surgery?

Well then we need major surgery dickhead.

[LFC2007]

You agreed with Bob in the post above saying "that's the exact point we don't need major surgery" (Bob saying we only need 2 or 3 max) and now you're saying we're 4 to 6 players away, which is it?


As for bluesh!te, I couldn't give a rats ars,e what they think of us, what have they won recently?

so you class 4-6 players as major surgery?

Well then we need major surgery dickhead.

Go feck yerself,

4-6 top players is half the feckin team!!

Course I consider that major surgery!

You agreed with Bob then you say we need 4-6 players, where's the consistency in that?

How about you make it 6-8 players. 

[Stu.Murph]

I have heard verbal diarreah and have now read keyboard diarreah. You obviously just post for the sake of it. I think we need 2 top class players to move towards the title in the guise of Tevez, Mancini, Villa, Torres, you think three, two of which are Anelka and Ashton, now that is laughable, neither is top class.

First you agree we don't need major work, and need 3 players, now its 4-6, which is it? can't mystic stu make his mind up?

You are the only one that can see that Agger is rubbish, when he ousted Hyppia, you are the only one who thinks that last years sqaud was better than this years, a team that moved serenely into the CL final.
Obviously you think going against the grain for the sake of it makes you look clever, well it doesn't.

Who gives a monkeys about the bitters? whats that got to do with Liverpool?

You allude to it enough, but why don't you just come out and say that you don't rate Rafa, come on admit it lad, you'd get more respect.

If you actually had the intellectual ability to read any of my posts I CLEARLY state... and I mean CLEARLY in near enough every post (with alot of consistency) we NEED AT LEAST... <<<< THIS BIT HERE IS IMPORTANT YOU THICK PENILE SLIME... I'll say it again... AT LEAST... two strikers and one centre half and a replacement who is AT LEAST as good if not better than Kewell depending on his fitness. I actually believe we need three strikers as we need a third choice striker aswell and we could probably do with another right winger.

You then go on to state Torres is class and Anelka isn't? Give me a break lad. Anelka's one of the best strikers in the league and has been since he first broke through at Arsenal.

You then go on to say I say Agger is rubbish? You tell me in every post I've ever made where I have ever said Agger is anything other than a good player... Not once I have I ever said he's rubbish. Not once have I ever said he's a bad player. Yet again a tremendous lack of intelligence shown on your part...

I am the only one who thinks last years squad was better? I can assure I'm not. I can also assure you that with far better performances the season before I left more games feeling happy than I did this season and I can also assure you that the league table shows we had a far far far supirior side than we did last season.

Obviously another dickhead. How can you even suggest we have a better team when were 13 points off and have served up a load of in alot of games this season...

With the exception of Arsenal and PSV (neither of which turned up for the games against us) Name one great 90 minutes performance this season. There was a few excellent 45 minute ones, but name an excellent 90 minute performance.

And what on earth has the last part of your post got to do with absoloutely anything other than you being a complete t055er?

Rafa Benitez is one of the best coaches in world football and is absoloutely unreal tactically.

As a manager, I question his judgement of player, his ability to pick the right players at the right time and his man management skills.