Liverpool FC Forum

[Big Niall]

I'm glad SG pointed out that finishing 4th and winning the CL still isn't a good season.

Rightfully so, the team is nowhere near the top 3 and are showing no signs of being anywhere near them.

If Rafa is the boss next season, we'll finish our usual 20 points off top spot. I think SG has had enough of all the cr*p every year about "building" and "patience" and the odd cup trophy now and then.

[Big Niall]

GBJH Im not a huge fan of Benitez.  Im a huge fan of LFC.  Rafa is the manager. I have stated many times on this site I think that unless he wins the champions league, he'll be gone.  Rafa's record is far better at this stage than even the great Bill Shankly, Hes miles behind bith Paisley and Fagan but he's light years ahead of Souness, Evans and even Houllier ( who might have won more trophies, but all Houlliers trophies dont equal a champions league).  I owe Rafa because he made me believe again and even now although I doubt him and many of his decisions I still look at every game with the belief we can win it, especially the Mancs who we will beat at Old Trafford. I used to fear we would be destroyed.  Not anymore

First off Al, my last post wasn't aimed at you mate.

But only now you think we can beat United. The same side that under Benitez we haven't scored against in the last 5 league matches? The same United side Houllier didn't lose to in 5 seasons?

This is what I don't understand, how people can sit there and openly praise Benitez for one trophy (allbeit the European Cup and that in itself is a huge achievement) but they knock a fella who won 4 major honours. Fair enough Houllier didn't win us the European Cup, but he got us closer in the league, he won three trophies in one year, which don't kid yourself is a lot harder to win three in one year than one in one year.

I'll back Benitez to the heavens while he's in charge to get it right every game. I don't think he's the right man and I think he's the major reason for this season turning into a disaster, but while he's sitting in the dug out as our manager he has my backing. But for people to just shrug off what Houllier did for this club pisses the life out of me. When Houllier took over the club consisted of James, Babb, Harkness, Staunton to name but a few. He took over a side that was full of , just like Benitez did. But Houllier gets criticised, and that' why I defend him so much, I think Houllier is wrongly treated by many on here, who think he played boring football and bought to many bad buys. Well I agree there, it was painful to watch and even more painful to see some of the signings, but he still took this club to major finals, still won major trophies and got as close to the league as we have been since we won it. So stop thinking he was some manager and give the fella some credit.

I'll credit Benitez where it's due. Winning the European Cup, he deserves huge amounts of credit there. His tactics in certain games were spot on. Juve away most obvious. His good signings have been really world class buys, and he DID take us forward. But that's finished and now we're sliding downwards again, hopefully just this one season and next year we take the league by storm. So I'll give Benitez his credit because he deserves it, but certain fans have got to give him the criticism when he deserves it as well.

I've criticised Benitez alot (even last post) but compared to GH he is Bill Shankley.

Houllier was a total bluffer, Benitez is a million times better than GH. Remember all his cr*p about 5 trophies - he included charity shield (one game) Euro Super cup(one game) the mickey mouse cup (top clubs played reserves and we beat a lower division team on penalties), the UEFA cup (no good teams in the tournament as they are all in CL, we beat a spanish village team which nobody ever heard of) and then Michael Owen single handedly (Henchos gave a "hand" too) beat Arsenal in a game Arsenal dominated.

GH was a spoofer, if they were the only two managers available, then Benitez by a mile. Rafa's worst buys were better than Heskey,Cisse,Cheyrou, smicer etc

[JC_81]

GBJH Im not a huge fan of Benitez.  Im a huge fan of LFC.  Rafa is the manager. I have stated many times on this site I think that unless he wins the champions league, he'll be gone.  Rafa's record is far better at this stage than even the great Bill Shankly, Hes miles behind bith Paisley and Fagan but he's light years ahead of Souness, Evans and even Houllier ( who might have won more trophies, but all Houlliers trophies dont equal a champions league).  I owe Rafa because he made me believe again and even now although I doubt him and many of his decisions I still look at every game with the belief we can win it, especially the Mancs who we will beat at Old Trafford. I used to fear we would be destroyed.  Not anymore

First off Al, my last post wasn't aimed at you mate.

But only now you think we can beat United. The same side that under Benitez we haven't scored against in the last 5 league matches? The same United side Houllier didn't lose to in 5 seasons?

This is what I don't understand, how people can sit there and openly praise Benitez for one trophy (allbeit the European Cup and that in itself is a huge achievement) but they knock a fella who won 4 major honours. Fair enough Houllier didn't win us the European Cup, but he got us closer in the league, he won three trophies in one year, which don't kid yourself is a lot harder to win three in one year than one in one year.

I'll back Benitez to the heavens while he's in charge to get it right every game. I don't think he's the right man and I think he's the major reason for this season turning into a disaster, but while he's sitting in the dug out as our manager he has my backing. But for people to just shrug off what Houllier did for this club pisses the life out of me. When Houllier took over the club consisted of James, Babb, Harkness, Staunton to name but a few. He took over a side that was full of , just like Benitez did. But Houllier gets criticised, and that' why I defend him so much, I think Houllier is wrongly treated by many on here, who think he played boring football and bought to many bad buys. Well I agree there, it was painful to watch and even more painful to see some of the signings, but he still took this club to major finals, still won major trophies and got as close to the league as we have been since we won it. So stop thinking he was some manager and give the fella some credit.

I'll credit Benitez where it's due. Winning the European Cup, he deserves huge amounts of credit there. His tactics in certain games were spot on. Juve away most obvious. His good signings have been really world class buys, and he DID take us forward. But that's finished and now we're sliding downwards again, hopefully just this one season and next year we take the league by storm. So I'll give Benitez his credit because he deserves it, but certain fans have got to give him the criticism when he deserves it as well.

I've criticised Benitez alot (even last post) but compared to GH he is Bill Shankley.

Houllier was a total bluffer, Benitez is a million times better than GH. Remember all his cr*p about 5 trophies - he included charity shield (one game) Euro Super cup(one game) the mickey mouse cup (top clubs played reserves and we beat a lower division team on penalties), the UEFA cup (no good teams in the tournament as they are all in CL, we beat a spanish village team which nobody ever heard of) and then Michael Owen single handedly (Henchos gave a "hand" too) beat Arsenal in a game Arsenal dominated.

GH was a spoofer, if they were the only two managers available, then Benitez by a mile. Rafa's worst buys were better than Heskey,Cisse,Cheyrou, smicer etc

Your statement about there being 'no good teams' in the UEFA cup that season is bollox mate.

We played Porto, Barcelona and Roma on that UEFA cup run.  It was a strong competition that season and it was a good achievement to win it.

[stmichael]

Whats the big fuss? Roy Keane opened his mouth on numerous occaisions when Captain of the mancs....goes with the territory these days.

[Big Niall]

GBJH Im not a huge fan of Benitez.  Im a huge fan of LFC.  Rafa is the manager. I have stated many times on this site I think that unless he wins the champions league, he'll be gone.  Rafa's record is far better at this stage than even the great Bill Shankly, Hes miles behind bith Paisley and Fagan but he's light years ahead of Souness, Evans and even Houllier ( who might have won more trophies, but all Houlliers trophies dont equal a champions league).  I owe Rafa because he made me believe again and even now although I doubt him and many of his decisions I still look at every game with the belief we can win it, especially the Mancs who we will beat at Old Trafford. I used to fear we would be destroyed.  Not anymore

First off Al, my last post wasn't aimed at you mate.

But only now you think we can beat United. The same side that under Benitez we haven't scored against in the last 5 league matches? The same United side Houllier didn't lose to in 5 seasons?

This is what I don't understand, how people can sit there and openly praise Benitez for one trophy (allbeit the European Cup and that in itself is a huge achievement) but they knock a fella who won 4 major honours. Fair enough Houllier didn't win us the European Cup, but he got us closer in the league, he won three trophies in one year, which don't kid yourself is a lot harder to win three in one year than one in one year.

I'll back Benitez to the heavens while he's in charge to get it right every game. I don't think he's the right man and I think he's the major reason for this season turning into a disaster, but while he's sitting in the dug out as our manager he has my backing. But for people to just shrug off what Houllier did for this club pisses the life out of me. When Houllier took over the club consisted of James, Babb, Harkness, Staunton to name but a few. He took over a side that was full of , just like Benitez did. But Houllier gets criticised, and that' why I defend him so much, I think Houllier is wrongly treated by many on here, who think he played boring football and bought to many bad buys. Well I agree there, it was painful to watch and even more painful to see some of the signings, but he still took this club to major finals, still won major trophies and got as close to the league as we have been since we won it. So stop thinking he was some manager and give the fella some credit.

I'll credit Benitez where it's due. Winning the European Cup, he deserves huge amounts of credit there. His tactics in certain games were spot on. Juve away most obvious. His good signings have been really world class buys, and he DID take us forward. But that's finished and now we're sliding downwards again, hopefully just this one season and next year we take the league by storm. So I'll give Benitez his credit because he deserves it, but certain fans have got to give him the criticism when he deserves it as well.

I've criticised Benitez alot (even last post) but compared to GH he is Bill Shankley.

Houllier was a total bluffer, Benitez is a million times better than GH. Remember all his cr*p about 5 trophies - he included charity shield (one game) Euro Super cup(one game) the mickey mouse cup (top clubs played reserves and we beat a lower division team on penalties), the UEFA cup (no good teams in the tournament as they are all in CL, we beat a spanish village team which nobody ever heard of) and then Michael Owen single handedly (Henchos gave a "hand" too) beat Arsenal in a game Arsenal dominated.

GH was a spoofer, if they were the only two managers available, then Benitez by a mile. Rafa's worst buys were better than Heskey,Cisse,Cheyrou, smicer etc

Your statement about there being 'no good teams' in the UEFA cup that season is bollox mate.

We played Porto, Barcelona and Roma on that UEFA cup run.  It was a strong competition that season and it was a good achievement to win it.

Why weren't these good teams in the Champions league then?

The UEFA cup is basically the second division of Europe, great for Man City, Bolton,Boro etc but that's it.

[big al]

I am drunk, I love liverpool. Would'nt it be great if we had a flashing warning light on here so that when drunkards like myself logged on ever user had a flashing  red light saying a drunkard has logged on.  Whatever I say tonight is comes with a government warning unless it sounds good then it's supernatural.

[big al]

thats not what i wanted to say come on you reds

[LFC2007]

GBJH Im not a huge fan of Benitez.  Im a huge fan of LFC.  Rafa is the manager. I have stated many times on this site I think that unless he wins the champions league, he'll be gone.  Rafa's record is far better at this stage than even the great Bill Shankly, Hes miles behind bith Paisley and Fagan but he's light years ahead of Souness, Evans and even Houllier ( who might have won more trophies, but all Houlliers trophies dont equal a champions league).  I owe Rafa because he made me believe again and even now although I doubt him and many of his decisions I still look at every game with the belief we can win it, especially the Mancs who we will beat at Old Trafford. I used to fear we would be destroyed.  Not anymore

First off Al, my last post wasn't aimed at you mate.

But only now you think we can beat United. The same side that under Benitez we haven't scored against in the last 5 league matches? The same United side Houllier didn't lose to in 5 seasons?

This is what I don't understand, how people can sit there and openly praise Benitez for one trophy (allbeit the European Cup and that in itself is a huge achievement) but they knock a fella who won 4 major honours. Fair enough Houllier didn't win us the European Cup, but he got us closer in the league, he won three trophies in one year, which don't kid yourself is a lot harder to win three in one year than one in one year.

I'll back Benitez to the heavens while he's in charge to get it right every game. I don't think he's the right man and I think he's the major reason for this season turning into a disaster, but while he's sitting in the dug out as our manager he has my backing. But for people to just shrug off what Houllier did for this club pisses the life out of me. When Houllier took over the club consisted of James, Babb, Harkness, Staunton to name but a few. He took over a side that was full of , just like Benitez did. But Houllier gets criticised, and that' why I defend him so much, I think Houllier is wrongly treated by many on here, who think he played boring football and bought to many bad buys. Well I agree there, it was painful to watch and even more painful to see some of the signings, but he still took this club to major finals, still won major trophies and got as close to the league as we have been since we won it. So stop thinking he was some manager and give the fella some credit.

I'll credit Benitez where it's due. Winning the European Cup, he deserves huge amounts of credit there. His tactics in certain games were spot on. Juve away most obvious. His good signings have been really world class buys, and he DID take us forward. But that's finished and now we're sliding downwards again, hopefully just this one season and next year we take the league by storm. So I'll give Benitez his credit because he deserves it, but certain fans have got to give him the criticism when he deserves it as well.

I've criticised Benitez alot (even last post) but compared to GH he is Bill Shankley.

Houllier was a total bluffer, Benitez is a million times better than GH. Remember all his cr*p about 5 trophies - he included charity shield (one game) Euro Super cup(one game) the mickey mouse cup (top clubs played reserves and we beat a lower division team on penalties), the UEFA cup (no good teams in the tournament as they are all in CL, we beat a spanish village team which nobody ever heard of) and then Michael Owen single handedly (Henchos gave a "hand" too) beat Arsenal in a game Arsenal dominated.

GH was a spoofer, if they were the only two managers available, then Benitez by a mile. Rafa's worst buys were better than Heskey,Cisse,Cheyrou, smicer etc

Your statement about there being 'no good teams' in the UEFA cup that season is bollox mate.

We played Porto, Barcelona and Roma on that UEFA cup run.  It was a strong competition that season and it was a good achievement to win it.

Agreed, but on the whole the overall standard of the UCL is well ahead of the UEFA cup.

[god_bless_john_houlding]

GBJH Im not a huge fan of Benitez.  Im a huge fan of LFC.  Rafa is the manager. I have stated many times on this site I think that unless he wins the champions league, he'll be gone.  Rafa's record is far better at this stage than even the great Bill Shankly, Hes miles behind bith Paisley and Fagan but he's light years ahead of Souness, Evans and even Houllier ( who might have won more trophies, but all Houlliers trophies dont equal a champions league).  I owe Rafa because he made me believe again and even now although I doubt him and many of his decisions I still look at every game with the belief we can win it, especially the Mancs who we will beat at Old Trafford. I used to fear we would be destroyed.  Not anymore

First off Al, my last post wasn't aimed at you mate.

But only now you think we can beat United. The same side that under Benitez we haven't scored against in the last 5 league matches? The same United side Houllier didn't lose to in 5 seasons?

This is what I don't understand, how people can sit there and openly praise Benitez for one trophy (allbeit the European Cup and that in itself is a huge achievement) but they knock a fella who won 4 major honours. Fair enough Houllier didn't win us the European Cup, but he got us closer in the league, he won three trophies in one year, which don't kid yourself is a lot harder to win three in one year than one in one year.

I'll back Benitez to the heavens while he's in charge to get it right every game. I don't think he's the right man and I think he's the major reason for this season turning into a disaster, but while he's sitting in the dug out as our manager he has my backing. But for people to just shrug off what Houllier did for this club pisses the life out of me. When Houllier took over the club consisted of James, Babb, Harkness, Staunton to name but a few. He took over a side that was full of , just like Benitez did. But Houllier gets criticised, and that' why I defend him so much, I think Houllier is wrongly treated by many on here, who think he played boring football and bought to many bad buys. Well I agree there, it was painful to watch and even more painful to see some of the signings, but he still took this club to major finals, still won major trophies and got as close to the league as we have been since we won it. So stop thinking he was some manager and give the fella some credit.

I'll credit Benitez where it's due. Winning the European Cup, he deserves huge amounts of credit there. His tactics in certain games were spot on. Juve away most obvious. His good signings have been really world class buys, and he DID take us forward. But that's finished and now we're sliding downwards again, hopefully just this one season and next year we take the league by storm. So I'll give Benitez his credit because he deserves it, but certain fans have got to give him the criticism when he deserves it as well.

I've criticised Benitez alot (even last post) but compared to GH he is Bill Shankley.

Houllier was a total bluffer, Benitez is a million times better than GH. Remember all his cr*p about 5 trophies - he included charity shield (one game) Euro Super cup(one game) the mickey mouse cup (top clubs played reserves and we beat a lower division team on penalties), the UEFA cup (no good teams in the tournament as they are all in CL, we beat a spanish village team which nobody ever heard of) and then Michael Owen single handedly (Henchos gave a "hand" too) beat Arsenal in a game Arsenal dominated.

GH was a spoofer, if they were the only two managers available, then Benitez by a mile. Rafa's worst buys were better than Heskey,Cisse,Cheyrou, smicer etc

Yes Houllier won the Charity Sheild and the Super Cup, but hasn't Benitez? So lets give Houllier a rough time for winning those two but compare Benitez to Shankly for winning them what a you are mate.

UEFA Cup 2001, we beat Barcelona, Roma and Porto as already mentioned. 2005 Champions League, we lost to a mickey mouse french side named Monaco. We were within 6 minutes of going out of the group stage to the same mickey mouse french side, an average at best spanish side, and the only decent team in greece. No difference, the sides in the UEFA Cup are as good as the sides who go out in the group stage of the European Cup.

2001 Barce side containing players at their prime such as Rivaldo, Kluivert, Overmars, Luis Enrique, compared to Leverkusen...Voronin, an uprising Berbatov, Franca, Butt. I'd take that Leverkusen side anyday. It'd be easier to beat Leverkusen of 05 than Barce of 01.

Again, I don't like giving grief to fellow reds, but when they're as simple as you it has to be said. You're a .

[god_bless_john_houlding]

GH was a spoofer, if they were the only two managers available, then Benitez by a mile. Rafa's worst buys were better than Heskey,Cisse,Cheyrou, smicer etc

Heskey or Kuyt? Heskey 20+ goals in his first season, Kuyt 15? Forwards job is to score so I'll give that to Heskey.

Cisse or Torres? Torres by a country mile

Cheyrou or Zenden? Both were a waste of time so I'll take that as a draw.

Smicer or Nunez? Smicer scored some important goals, Nunez scored one in his entire spell at the club. Smicer all the way.

So you're examples of Houllier's bad buys don't hold up much to Benitez'.

Let's try keepers. Kirkland, Dudek and Westerveld or Reina, Carson and Itandje. Reina being much better than all, but as a three choice I'd take Houllier's signings.

Right backs...Finnan and Babbel or Krompkamp and Josemi? Houllier's two again.

Centre halves...Hyypia and Henchoz...Agger and Skrtel. Not quite fair as Skrtel hasn't played alot, so could be given to Benitez in time, but currently Houllier again.

Left back...Riise or Aurellio. I'd take Riise in his first 2 years than Aurellio's first two. Another transfer victory for the Frenchman.

Right wing...Diouf, Smicer and Barmby or Garcia, Pennant and Nunez? Everyone seems to bang on about wingers needing goals, then it goes to the Frenchman again. Only Garcia out of Benitez' signings has scored more than one goal from the right wing. Benitez is doing well wouldn't you agree

Centre mids...Biscan, Cheyrou, Hamman and Gary Mc or Sissoko, Mascheranho, Lucas and Alonso. Defensive player Hamman or Sissoko, goes to Didi. Creative passer Alonso or Gary Mc...pretty even but I'll go for Alonso. Engine Biscan or Mascheranho is there any point discussing it? Lastly next superstar...Lucas or Cheyrou, well again Lucas is head and shoulders better, so in the centre of the park Benitez wins hands down really.

Left wing...Kewell or Zenden? I never rated Kewell but I'd prefer to see him in our side than Zenden, one more for Houllier.

Up front...Baros, Heskey and Cisse or Torres, Kuyt and Morientes. Well based on goals which is a forwards job Baros 27, Heskey 60, Cisse 24 making a total 111. To Torres 21, Kuyt 23 and Morientes 12 making a total 56. I'd take Houllier's three. Obviously like the keeper situation Benitez has brought one player who's head and shoulders above the rest in Torres but as a collective unit, Houllier's are a better choice.

So overall, Houllier didn't do as bad a job as people would like to think. Also you can't say I've favoured either manager because I've picked each other's better buys.

[account deleted by request]

Steven Gerrard has attributes of top manager
By Gerrard Houllier
Last Updated: 12:57am GMT 02/03/2008
After Steven Gerrard's heroics in that famous Champions League final in Istanbul in 2005 I went into the changing room to congratulate my old players.

Liverpool had come from three goals down to beat a great Milan side and Gerrard had elevated himself to world-class level that night. I wanted to find out how the player I had brought into the first team as a teenager was enjoying the moment.

I went up to him and asked him if this night would become the best memory of his career. His answer always struck me - it sums up why Gerrard is really something special. He said that the best memory would always be when I first made him captain of the Liverpool team in a European match when he was still just 22 years old. That is a measure of how committed and dedicated he is to everything he does: responsibility before glory.

You have to consider three qualities with Gerrard. First, he is a world-class player, a big game player who has a sense of occasion. Second, he is a team player, a player who employs his technique to the greater efficiency of the team rather than to be a showman. Thirdly, he is a player and a man you can trust. That is why I made him my captain and that is why he would make such a good England captain.

There are plenty of strong candidates for the England captaincy and Fabio Capello knows his own decisions. He made Gerrard captain for the Switzerland game and I'm sure he could do it full time. I always thought he would become the captain at some stage.

It is this same quality of always thinking about the team that will make Gerrard a great manager, too. I'm sure of that. He has this ability to think tactically and see what is happening across the pitch. That is why he can play in several different positions: central midfield, on the right, behind the striker, in the defence.

I noticed that he had something special the first time I saw him playing for the Liverpool academy back in 1998. He had a combination of strong, committed character and a very efficient technique, both defending and attacking. I think he could see a pass before other players realised it was there. He is known for those big, diagonal crossfield passes, but he is also capable of picking the right short pass on the edge of the box or of receiving the ball in defence and instantly launching an offensive move. He knows where the ball needs to be before it gets to him.

He is a tall and powerful player, too. This was a problem when he was coming out of his teens, though, as he suffered first with hamstring problems and then groin injuries. I sent him off to see some specialists on the continent and we got to the root of the problem, which was linked to the speed of his growth as a boy. Now his power and speed are very important. We were quite stunned at Liverpool when we did our time trials: he was as fast as Michael Owen over short distances.

I think there are three levels to the development of a player. Gerrard reached the first level very young, that is, playing in the Premier League at 18. He was soon an important player and would become a decisive one as he developed. He won the League Cup, the FA Cup and the UEFA Cup with us and, in 2002, we finished second in the league with 80 points.

The second level was international football and he took to that quickly. I remember Gerrard, Owen and Emile Heskey destroying Germany on their own soil in 2001, with Gerrard scoring his first international goal. After I left Liverpool he reached the third level of progression - world-class player - by his performances in the Champions League.

As he has made clear, the one piece of silverware that he does not have is the Premier League title. Gerrard has a hunger and a desire for success. He works so hard and really enjoys that work because it is always channelled towards raising his standards.

I do not think Gerrard needs to leave to fulfil his ambition of winning the league. I know he nearly moved to Chelsea after I left the club and the grass is always greener, as they say. He is the captain of a top 10 European club and that is a great position. Liverpool will win the title at some stage although what is sure is that they won't win it without Gerrard.

No, if Gerrard does leave Anfield it will probably be to face a personal challenge. I can see him moving on later in his career, to test himself, then to return to the club as a manager. That is how I can see his future.

[The Manhattan Project]

Stevie G will be Liverpool manager one day.

Possibly with Carra as his #2

[god_bless_john_houlding]

Gerrard if he wants it, has the managers job sewn up and what a day it'll be for our club.

[ConnO'var]

Excellent article and shows an insight to his character that few knew. His onfield demeanor masks his passion for the club.
Always seems so surly when things aren't going right but as I've always felt, this was directly related to his burning desire to win.

It would be a sad day for the club should he leave now, in the prime of his career. A travesty I can't even begin to contemplate.

As for the managerial capabilities, I can't really say.... time will tell but I would definitely welcome him with open arms should the opportunity ever arise for him to prove himself.