Liverpool FC Forum

[Big Niall]

We are in the euro loser cup this year, and probably again (if we even make it) next year. We will miss out on millions, why would Torres stay in second tier club, A profession should be playing at his level and we are second tier now. IF Torres leaves and we don't have the money to replace him (we don't) then we are a mid table team.

[Waldo]

Haven't been on here since Monday night's farce as wanted to take time to reflect on what was the worst performance I have seen for us for a long long time (maybe even ever).

The players look shot and we will not now make 4th spot. We have been lucky to stay competing for 4th for so long as we haven't played well all season. You can look at the injuries, our BIG players not turning up all season, the off the park shambles but we simply aren't good enough this year to finish 4th.

I for one want an end to this dismal season and into the summer for a clear out, rebuild and hopefully change of ownership!!

[roberto green]

What a difference a year makes.This night last year we hammered Real Madrid 4-0 just wathcing it on the LFC TV channel now and we have most the same players with us still.

WTF has happened I am so down with the current state of our club

[kunilson]

Im an optimist by the way.

What's that like?

doesn't help in situations like this.

for example, i still voted no.

[alxy]

No no no. I too was surprised at how p.ss poor our lads play at times. Then I realized, they're all in on it! Rafa, Gerrard, Torres...the lot of them. It's all a plot! We're gonna finish out of even the Europa League places. Next year no European income, facing even worse backlash from fans & media....G&H forced to sell! Otherwise, how else can you explain a team with arguably the best striker and midfielder in the world, and among the best goalkeepers and holding midfielders; and with 3 international (England, Argentina, Israel) captains look so lost and leaderless on the pitch?

Kudos to our lads! I know it's not been easy playing so bad. Takes a lot of skill to play so far below their actual abilities! Well, maybe they just see how Lucas is playing and copy that........

[Sir Roger]

I voted no.

Up until a few weeks ago I would have voted yes, that we would somehow turn it around, but that would depend on changing things about. But then we have a manager who REFUSES to try something different. Is this because he can't (that he has no ideas how to) or won't (changing things now, this far into his 'regime', would be admitting he was wrong and he's too stubborn for that).

I don't want to be a doom and gloomer, but I think this is the beginning of the end for Liverpool. There is, however, ONE way out - if we sack Rafa in the summer and keep Torres/Gerrard we'll be back in the CL the following season. All we need is a manager who wants to play football...

I don't know what Rafa is like in person, but I certainly don't like the way he wants football to be played. He sees it as a game to lose, rather than to win, and sets out his team accordingly. Imagine if every team played like Liverpool? You'd start seeing kids become uninterested in the game and it would die away.

I've said this before in another thread but I'll say it again:
Every team has 10 outfield players.
4 of those are defenders - 40% sent out to defend
In our case, we have 2 defensive midfielders - 60% sent out to defend
You could argue that Kuyt warrants a starting position for his protection of our right back and his ceaseless harassing of the opposition - 70% sent out to defend.

That's 70% of our team whose job it is to stop the other team playing. That doesn't strike fear in other teams, that encourages them - "Liverpool are worried about us so let's give them something to worry about"

We have the best striker in the world starved of service. If he had a feeder striker, someone to toe-poke a scrappy ball through a melee of defenders, or spot a gap, he would be scoring more freely. But having another striker would mean taking away 1 of 7 players whose instinct it is to defend. (What if Fifa changed the rules and teams could field 12 players - would Rafa field another defender or a striker?). All you have to do is look at our set-pieces to figure out Rafa's mentality - he'll sacrifice the bare minimum in attacking corners and bring EVERYONE back to defend them. I never see the point in that - once you clear it, it will just come back and there's no chance of hitting anyone on the break.

The Scum have had their poorest team in years but Fergie knows how to play them to the best of their ability. He encourages movement and positive thinking - get the ball forward, use it well. Watch the next Scum game and notice how many of their players - midfielders/defenders - get themselves into scoring opportunities or positions to create. (Cue comments like "well off and watch them then - I have and they play football the way it's supposed to be played. Arsenal too.)

Rafa is the opposite - he doesn't trust his players to play football, to win games; he sees going forward as a liability because we could lose it and they could hit us on the break. This is why "controlling games" is so important to Rafa. He likes the endless passing back and forth and back and forth across the box because if we spend a lot of time doing that, the clock runs down and they have little chance of scoring - in the midst of this we MIGHT grab one. There doesn't seem to be a plan of attack - just a case of 'if we spend time in and around the box we're bound to score at some stage'.

Encouraging players to think outside the box, to utilise their talent, is an X factor that Rafa can't risk, he has to control EVERYTHING a player does and if a player doesn't do what Rafa wants him to do, he finds himself on the bench. Some of us wonder why the likes of Kuyt and Lucas (and now Maxi) start every game... it's because they do EXACTLY what Rafa wants, no questions asked. Yes men.

And let's look at the likes of Lucas, Babel and Kuyt - A Brazilian footballer of the year asked to sit in front of a back four making 4/5 yard square passes; a Dutch right-footed striker (and a promising talent before he arrived here) played on the left wing; and another Dutch striker who had no trouble banging them in in his home league, employed solely to protect our right back. I remember reading about Pennant's comments that Rafa was telling him to hang on to the ball, to do this, that, etc when he wanted to play the early ball (not that I'd take Jermaine Pennant's word). The evidence is there to suggest that Rafa stifles, not nurtures, talent. Aquiliani sits on the bench, as does Pacheco.

Thoughts?

The only mystery regarding Rafa is how anyone can defend his style of playing
Take Istanbul out of the equation and it is plain to see the type of football Rafa wants his players to play.
The three most outstanding players in that final were Gerrard, Carragher and Dudek. Three players he inherited. In the five years since then we have seen a decline in style and creativity. Yes Torres, Alonso and Reina are great players and he can take credit for signing them but we have a list longer than Mr Fantastics knob of the tripe hes bought (and kept). He is a control feak who over analyses for no good reason.
Ask yourself this question. If Rafas obsession with attention to detail works then why arent we top of the league or Champions already? It is pointless and useless to over complicate the simple game of football.
Watch the skanks or arsenal players and see the enjoyment and sheer pleasure they get when they are attacking and scoring. Watch purple nose or Wenger when they see their players smash opponents or run them ragged. See them jump in ecstasy when their players score.
Contrast this to us...
Rafa is what he is. Single minded, adamant and immovable.
I hoped he would see the error of his ways, accept responsibility and change. My hope was in vain. He is on his own journey and no-one can stop him from reaching his destination. We are just passengers along for the ride...

[Big Niall]

where are the muppets with their "in Rafa we trust" stupid quotes?

Blind faith is for morons.

[Octsky]

I voted no.

Up until a few weeks ago I would have voted yes, that we would somehow turn it around, but that would depend on changing things about. But then we have a manager who REFUSES to try something different. Is this because he can't (that he has no ideas how to) or won't (changing things now, this far into his 'regime', would be admitting he was wrong and he's too stubborn for that).

I don't want to be a doom and gloomer, but I think this is the beginning of the end for Liverpool. There is, however, ONE way out - if we sack Rafa in the summer and keep Torres/Gerrard we'll be back in the CL the following season. All we need is a manager who wants to play football...

I don't know what Rafa is like in person, but I certainly don't like the way he wants football to be played. He sees it as a game to lose, rather than to win, and sets out his team accordingly. Imagine if every team played like Liverpool? You'd start seeing kids become uninterested in the game and it would die away.

I've said this before in another thread but I'll say it again:
Every team has 10 outfield players.
4 of those are defenders - 40% sent out to defend
In our case, we have 2 defensive midfielders - 60% sent out to defend
You could argue that Kuyt warrants a starting position for his protection of our right back and his ceaseless harassing of the opposition - 70% sent out to defend.

That's 70% of our team whose job it is to stop the other team playing. That doesn't strike fear in other teams, that encourages them - "Liverpool are worried about us so let's give them something to worry about"

We have the best striker in the world starved of service. If he had a feeder striker, someone to toe-poke a scrappy ball through a melee of defenders, or spot a gap, he would be scoring more freely. But having another striker would mean taking away 1 of 7 players whose instinct it is to defend. (What if Fifa changed the rules and teams could field 12 players - would Rafa field another defender or a striker?). All you have to do is look at our set-pieces to figure out Rafa's mentality - he'll sacrifice the bare minimum in attacking corners and bring EVERYONE back to defend them. I never see the point in that - once you clear it, it will just come back and there's no chance of hitting anyone on the break.

The Scum have had their poorest team in years but Fergie knows how to play them to the best of their ability. He encourages movement and positive thinking - get the ball forward, use it well. Watch the next Scum game and notice how many of their players - midfielders/defenders - get themselves into scoring opportunities or positions to create. (Cue comments like "well off and watch them then - I have and they play football the way it's supposed to be played. Arsenal too.)

Rafa is the opposite - he doesn't trust his players to play football, to win games; he sees going forward as a liability because we could lose it and they could hit us on the break. This is why "controlling games" is so important to Rafa. He likes the endless passing back and forth and back and forth across the box because if we spend a lot of time doing that, the clock runs down and they have little chance of scoring - in the midst of this we MIGHT grab one. There doesn't seem to be a plan of attack - just a case of 'if we spend time in and around the box we're bound to score at some stage'.

Encouraging players to think outside the box, to utilise their talent, is an X factor that Rafa can't risk, he has to control EVERYTHING a player does and if a player doesn't do what Rafa wants him to do, he finds himself on the bench. Some of us wonder why the likes of Kuyt and Lucas (and now Maxi) start every game... it's because they do EXACTLY what Rafa wants, no questions asked. Yes men.

And let's look at the likes of Lucas, Babel and Kuyt - A Brazilian footballer of the year asked to sit in front of a back four making 4/5 yard square passes; a Dutch right-footed striker (and a promising talent before he arrived here) played on the left wing; and another Dutch striker who had no trouble banging them in in his home league, employed solely to protect our right back. I remember reading about Pennant's comments that Rafa was telling him to hang on to the ball, to do this, that, etc when he wanted to play the early ball (not that I'd take Jermaine Pennant's word). The evidence is there to suggest that Rafa stifles, not nurtures, talent. Aquiliani sits on the bench, as does Pacheco.

Thoughts?

The only mystery regarding Rafa is how anyone can defend his style of playing
Take Istanbul out of the equation and it is plain to see the type of football Rafa wants his players to play.
The three most outstanding players in that final were Gerrard, Carragher and Dudek. Three players he inherited. In the five years since then we have seen a decline in style and creativity. Yes Torres, Alonso and Reina are great players and he can take credit for signing them but we have a list longer than Mr Fantastics knob of the tripe hes bought (and kept). He is a control feak who over analyses for no good reason.
Ask yourself this question. If Rafas obsession with attention to detail works then why arent we top of the league or Champions already? It is pointless and useless to over complicate the simple game of football.
Watch the skanks or arsenal players and see the enjoyment and sheer pleasure they get when they are attacking and scoring. Watch purple nose or Wenger when they see their players smash opponents or run them ragged. See them jump in ecstasy when their players score.
Contrast this to us...
Rafa is what he is. Single minded, adamant and immovable.
I hoped he would see the error of his ways, accept responsibility and change. My hope was in vain. He is on his own journey and no-one can stop him from reaching his destination. We are just passengers along for the ride...

great post, agree with it 100%

[GRAHAM01]

where are the muppets with their "in Rafa we trust" stupid quotes?

Blind faith is for morons.

i was/am one of those who has said that!! i'm still here














i'm in the corner rocking back and forth waiting for the nice men to collect me and take me to my nice soft sleeping room     

[The Good Yank]

where are the muppets with their "in Rafa we trust" stupid quotes?

Blind faith is for morons.

They'll be loud and proud with a win over the juggernaut that is Pompey on Monday night.

[roberto green]

where are the muppets with their "in Rafa we trust" stupid quotes?

Blind faith is for morons.

no mate your a moron.

[GRAHAM01]

where are the muppets with their "in Rafa we trust" stupid quotes?

Blind faith is for morons.

They'll be loud and proud with a win over the juggernaut that is Pompey on Monday night.

i will be here win OR lose mate

[NANNY RED]

where are the muppets with their "in Rafa we trust" stupid quotes?

Blind faith is for morons.

Im still here . Im not going nowhere .I love being a muppet

[Redman in wales]

where are the muppets with their "in Rafa we trust" stupid quotes?

Blind faith is for morons.

Im still here . Im not going nowhere .I love being a muppet

Question is.... Which one?

[GRAHAM01]

where are the muppets with their "in Rafa we trust" stupid quotes?

Blind faith is for morons.

Im still here . Im not going nowhere .I love being a muppet

Question is.... Which one?

is has to be animal