Liverpool FC Forum

[stmichael]

I think it's fair to say that tuesday night, and the reaction to it, was simply a final wake up call to us and the authorities as to how far football has come in the last few years, it is no longer the game we knew.

The amount of apathy (myself included) towards our loss simply illustrates how shafted our once great game has become, we deal with defeat with a simple sigh and note that 4th place is merely 7 points away (yet Chelsea are 21 points away). Mecca is 2 wins and a draw from our grasp.

The invention of The Premiership started the decline, but cannot simply be blamed. Sky came in and dangled great wads of money infront of the already rich, Manchester united saw the opportunities and sold their soul (and the ‘Football Club’ name) to the dollar, lira, yen etc. Chelsea, not to be outdone, managed to precure a sugar daddy and began rewriting every last rule in football. Money won, and unless someone does something about it, our game is finished. Of the 92 teams in The Football League, I’d be surprised if 10-15 of them aren’t around come 2015. But will the likes of Freddy Shepard miss them? Hell no, as long as people are buying Newcastle keyrings and carstickers.

Cups don’t matter anymore, the likes of Chelsea have seen to that, and the FA helped ease people’s concience by allowing the holders to opt out in 2000. Bournemouth are bitterly moaning that we cost them £250k by playing the kids. That quarter of a million could have meant Bournemouth concrete their place in the play offs and subsequent promotion, but winning a ‘race’ for the 16th from bottom place in the premiership meant more to Liverpool financially, so the little guy lost.

I cannot blame Rafael Benitez for having to play this game, but we are so far behind Chelsea, its unbelievable. Money rules, and if you want to win anything you will have to accept this. Look at the comments Mourinho made yesterday:

"We don't need another goalkeeper. We have a great group of keepers, but the reality is that we need the best players in the country, especially English ones.

"If a very young goalkeeper is available, we can think about it for the future of the club, instead of having Lenny Pidgeley as the only young goalkeeper. We could have both of them and maybe send one on loan."

Chelsea aren’t trying to build a team to win anymore, they are stopping every other team building a team. They didn't need a keeper, but they still tried to buy Carson, and would no doubt have loaned him out to a ‘little guy’. Shucks, such a lovely gesture. It sickens me to see that a team like that. The FA however will allow it, and stop loaned players playing against their owners, therefore shadow teams will play Chelsea and stronger teams will play versus Liverpool, Arsenal and Manchester United. More trophies for Chelsea, more money for Chelsea.

UEFA are talking about bringing in a rule to limit the amount of foreigners in a team – Chelsea (the first team to play 11 foreigners in a match remember) have pre-empted that by attempting to buy any and all English Talent. I have always hated Chelsea (hate is a strong word, yet highly appropriate) for being driven by money pre-Abramovic, but I cannot find the words to describe my feelings for them now. They are team in the wealthiest part of London, financed by an (allegedly) crooked billionaire, managed by an egotistical pompous attention seeker, adored and lavished with praise by the media and having some of the most arrogant players on the planet. Got to love them haven’t you – everything that’s wrong and crooked within society, and the media love them! Tsunami? Lets talk about it for 3 weeks and then get back to what sells papers – Beckham, who David Walliams is currently shafting, Big Brother, and Chelsea. Marvellous.

The reason that Liverpool devalued the FA cup is due to money, pure and simple. There is no money, no financial incentive, to win the FA cup. You have to pay more win bonuses, pay for more travel, and pay for police to attand the game (and for their horses to p1ss on you!). We would have been on a hiding to nothing, and as far as the club are concerned, better without it. Like it or lump it, this is the ‘football’ we all know now. Moan all you like but unless the FA put some incentive towards winning it (more money or CL qualification) it’ll become like the Copa del Rey – useless.

Unless the FA, UEFA and FIFA start standing up for the little teams (and judging by the farcical G14 ‘superclubs’ they won’t) we will soon have a European League, with only a few having a chance of winning it. Liverpool will either be in it or playing v Hibs in the British Premiership in front of 30,000 fans in a 60,000 capacity ground paying £50 per person for the pleasure. Sounds enticing doesn’t it.

Joe Fagan said to one of our scouts who had been watching a player and had reeled off an assessment of his various abilities, “No, no,” said Joe, “Forget about that. We just want to know……… is he a fcking winner?”

I don’t want to sit in a soulless ground anymore, I don’t want to pay over the odds to watch some fancy tricks with no end product. People rave on about Ronaldo, but all I see is a pompous overpaid child with some fancy stepovers and no end product, a bit like a white, homsexual, Mark Walters. Someone lamp him please.

I just want to see players who want to win, and moreover, want to win for Liverpool. Give me the likes of Ian Nolan, Joey Barton and Neil Lennon anyday. They may not be as skillful as Garcia or Kewell, but by fck they care more. Lets get rid of the highly paid ‘superstars’ that grace the cover of Shoot every week, and get some lads we can be proud of. People slate Josemi, but at leat the slow tw*t wants to win and puts his foot in. Modern football bores me now, I used to watch any football I could, but now I can only bear to watch Liverpool – all I saw in the ten minutes I watched last night of Exeter v Manchester United was 11 arrogant idiots, wondering if their gucci watches would be safe in the dressing rooms.

And NO, I don’t feel better for that rant!

Come on Rafa, we are 100% behind you (some with a knife), lets get some players in we can be proud of, win lose or draw. Lets sing You’ll never walk alone at the top of our lungs again. Lets look sadly and silently at the eternal flame, and remember that 96 died for this club and never witnessed how truly awful football has become.

YNWA.

[banana]

I can understand your concern. But when you say "Give me the likes of Ian Nolan, Joey Barton and Neil Lennon anyday" you must be joking. Those players suck big time. Just because they are dirty tacklers does not necessarily mean that they give 100%. And LFC should be about winning throphies. Not about avoiding the drop. Nolan, Lennon and Barton and the likes will never win anything. And do not compare Kewell with Garcia please. Garcia runs his sox off every game.

[stmichael]

And do not compare Kewell with Garcia please. Garcia runs his sox off every game.

what player you watching?

[116-1105728556]

St Mike

Another great post but yer've got to take what yer can when yer can, there are still unanswered questions on the Burnley game!

Sky changed the game in the UK forever but not necassarily for the worse but the rich will get richer and the poor poorer and LFC presently are straddling the threshold between the 2.

Once they start to fail the reduction in fees and payments will be exponential and that is a worry.

[109-1105722616]

abit pessimistic that one stmichael

cheer up lad, i understand what your saying though about players like barton and that, they get stuck i for their club and show what its like to wear the jersey with pride

[hawkmoon269]

I think we all agree that the game is not what it used be be, but there is no going back.  We have to move with the times, or end up like Leeds, Forest etc - mighty teams fallen on tough times.

Saying that, you have raised a good point - our players rarely show the desire and pride, shown by the great Liverpool teams in the 70's and 80's.

But how do you instill the level of desire/pride needed to out perform the rich kids?  I don't know, I'm not the manager.  But we need to do it.  Maybe as well as a medical, all new players must watch the 1977 European Cup Final, and look at Crazy's eyes when he lifted the Cup.

Desire, it's all about desire.  Ok, I want Liverpool to get back to the glory days, but I'd be happy seeing some spirit come back first.  What happened to touching the This is Anfield sign?  I know this doesn't win matches, but it is indicative of the lack of spirit now.

I'm going for a cup of coffee!!!

[Santa]

St Mike, good post...speak like a true suppoter should.

Chelsea aren’t trying to build a team to win anymore, they are stopping every other team building a team.

May I use the word "Salary cap" again?...to ensure a more equitable playing field among teams before the game is destroyed by those greedy chairmen, players and their seedy agents.

[stmichael]

May I use the word "Salary cap" again?...to ensure a more equitable playing field among teams before the game is destroyed by those greedy chairmen, players and their seedy agents.

I've always said that I cant see the justification in players like Campbell and Shearer earning the salaries that they do. Yes they are very good at their jobs and it aint their fault that they earn this.

But it's hitting the lower league clubs and also the supporter! In a lot of cases also it makes certain players think they earn £x per week therefore I want This,That & This and NOW! hopefully with the capping of wages and "lower" wages it will bring a little more reality into the footballers lives!

I very much doubt it though.

[Dom1]

Great post st mick, although i really want you to be wrong ... u are talking a lot of sense !!

[Dom1]

I don’t want to sit in a soulless ground anymore, I don’t want to pay over the odds to watch some fancy tricks with no end product. People rave on about Ronaldo, but all I see is a pompous overpaid child with some fancy stepovers and no end product, a bit like a white, homsexual, Mark Walters. Someone lamp him please.

And what a paragraph that is       sheer class 

[Santa]

May I use the word "Salary cap" again?...to ensure a more equitable playing field among teams before the game is destroyed by those greedy chairmen, players and their seedy agents.

I've always said that I cant see the justification in players like Campbell and Shearer earning the salaries that they do. Yes they are very good at their jobs and it aint their fault that they earn this.

But it's hitting the lower league clubs and also the supporter! In a lot of cases also it makes certain players think they earn £x per week therefore I want This,That & This and NOW! hopefully with the capping of wages and "lower" wages it will bring a little more reality into the footballers lives!

I very much doubt it though.

You're right it ain't the players fault per se. Salary cap will prevent a team (any team) funded by a sugar daddy of questionable richness and attempt to buy the game and all players of known quality (eg, Chelsea). of course the agents will then drum up their client's interest and sell him to the highest bidder, whomever they may be and proceed to suck the club dry in the process. The game will then be blinded by money and all honest ethics are thrown out of the window. Players will hold their hometown club at ransom and move just for the sake of money (eg, Savage). The poor will remained poor, probably go burst and ceased to operate ever again. Then one day the money suddenly move away from football (probably to the next hip sports) and the football club (and those honest players and the fans) will be left to pick up the pieces.

A bit disorganised in my presentation above but hoped you get my drift. Also easier said on paper but might be tough to implement though...

[FrankM]

I think St Mick is very close to the truth. When you see Chelsea buying out Umbro's contract for 24 million you know there is something very wrong. Talk about going full circle.

[stmichael]

I can understand your concern. Butthe likes of Ian Nolan, Joey Barton and Neil Lennon anyday" you must be joking. Those players suck big time. Just because they are dirty tacklers does not necessarily mean that they give 100%.

The fundamental point I was trying to make is that the team needs players who care about the club as much as the supporters do. I'm all for having foreign players at the club... I don't mind if all the so-called top players are foreign either... you just need to have players that are willing to do anything to get the club back to where it belongs... guys that leave it all on the pitch every night.

Here's a question for everybody. How good of a player do you think Steven Gerrard would be if he didn't put out the effort he does when he's playing for the club? I'm not saying he wouldn't put as much effort into helping a team other than Liverpool win, but if that were the case, Gerrard would not be half the player he is today.

[maximus]

Please find reply from one of the members on KOPTalk where St Micks thread was originally posted. It is one of the most positive replies to what is a very negative post, and should be commended: Things are not all that bad really are they??.

I quote from Koptalk:

Get a grip man!
I know we are all annoyed after Tuesday, but this post is striking out in all directions and hitting very few.

There have always been priorities in football, and all Tuesday night showed was that with a small squad and lots of injuries Rafa had to hope the kids could do the job in the Cup. They couldn't, but that was more because the team played badly than anything else.

We are going for 4th place because we are developing under a new manager and that is the minimum required in any year. It's not mecca, but it is what we need to be able to move forward and challenge in the years ahead. And before the dreamers start insisting we should be challenging now, get real. New manager, new players, lots of injuries.

And what rules have Chelsea rewritten? I dislike them as much as the next man, but since when was having a rich owner a crime? Did we complain when we signed Digger, Aldo and Beardsley in 1987? Did we complain when we signed Collymore? Of course not.
Freddie Shepherd might be a t**t, but that doesn't mean everyone agrees with him. Money is too centred on the Premiership, but some of the league clubs will go bust because of incompetent owners. As for blaming Sky, look at how much money the league gets from televised games. Way more than ever before, I wager.

Bournemouth can complain all they like, but if they are relying on the luck of a cup draw to give them cash then their owners aren't running them properly. What if Burnley had beaten a stronger Liverpool, would people have been accusing them of hurting 'the little guy'? And that '16th from bottom place' means securing funds to help us move forward, or would you rather we won the Cup and came 5th? If you say yes, you're either an idiot or lying.

As for Mourinho's comments, the guy is a master of playing the media. He knew yesterday Carson wanted Liverpool, so made his comments to make it seem as though he had turned Carson down. Clever stuff from a clever guy. Tell me, which top top players have Chelsea bought that other teams wanted. Maybe Robben, but that was because another team that could afford him (United) mucked around over the fee.

As for not playing against your owners when on loan, is there anyone that disagrees with this except you? Surely it makes sense to avoid the conflict of interest.

What difference does it make what area of London Chelsea are in? Or is this just more classic northern angst against those flash londoners? Mourinho is a class manager who says what he thinks, and has the medals to back it up. Yes, some of his players are idiots, but then so are some of most clubs' players.

Still not sure why you even mention the Tsunami. Chelsea are back page, world news front page. Yeah Beckham transcends that but here's a newsflash for you...people want to read it. If you have a problem with news coverage in general fine, but what does that have to do with football?

You might want to go back to the days of Shanks etc, but personally I like watching players like Henry, Gerrard, Keane et al playing on well-maintained pitches, rather than some pished-up joker playing on a bog. Of course we only remember the great Liverpool side, so would love that again, but I imagine back in those days people cried about the loss of maximum wage and flatcaps. Life changes, and you either move with it or die.

You don’t want to sit in a soulless ground anymore? Well fcuckin start singing then! Yeah the prices are ridiculous but the only way they come down is if people stop going. When you look at Ronaldo you don't see a good player with a gift for entertaining? Then you're looking at the wrong guy. But that's ok, you just call him gay and assume anyone with skill should be hit. Maybe you do belong in the 1970s.

You want players who want to win. But according to you they only want to win if they are british and have limited skill. You have Nolan, Barton and Lennon, I'll take Vieira, Keane and Alonso. I tell you waht. Let's keep the highly paid superstars with their fantastic skill and will to win. Let's get rid of the overpaid fancyboys who are here for the money. But most of all, let's not tar everyone with the same brush.

And please, please, don't invoke the name of the Hillsborough dead in a post like this. Shanks is as close to g-d as you can get, but he was wrong in one thing...football is not more important that life and death. You might have a grumble and a rant, but 96 people died at Hillsborough, and they didn't do it because they wanted to stop money taking over football. Let's leave them in peace and not use their names to lend support to our own complaints.

[Sean]

Good debate Maximus but I agree with St. Michael.  Football sold its soul the day Sky bought into the game.

I enjoyed the influx of foreign stars that started to join the premiership after the '94 world cup.  But somewhere between then and now it went too far.  There are too many average foreigners playing in the premiership now who don't want to even learn about the history of the club their playing for.  The premiership is viewed as a cash cow to be milked.  Put a cap of £25,000 a week on wages and watch the reaction....win bonuses might actually begin to mean something to players again.

Foreigners aren't the only ones to blame.  The behaviour of the overpaid spice boys at our club in the mid nineties sickened me.

Footballers are paid so much from a young age that clubs have to employ staff to liase with players to ensure tasks that are routine to normal people are completed (e.g. making sure players have their cars taxed and insured and have household bills paid etc.)

I've driven 400 miles today and i'm a bit knackered so I apologise if i'm not making my points clearly.  But, I know we have to move on and accept change but it doesn't stop me being jealous of my dad who followed football in the 50's, 60's and 70's watching real football and when the game and players were really great.