Liverpool FC Forum

by **Puddy Heskey** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 11:31 am

The liverpool are too slow take action on the bad signings and even worse manger.Rally outside anfield and get them fired.Or if they dont get fired they mite at least take action.

by **redandblue** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 11:43 am

Great suggestion Puddy........the Liverpool 'way' of not being a sacking club is costing us dear.

Moores, Parry and Houllier. Three clowns, dreaming of winning Carling Cups who have signed this famous club up for mediocrity.

by **Owzat** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 2:21 pm

If manu get Saha for £10.5m, a proven striker in the Premiership and we spend £13m+ on Cisse, an unknown quantity in Premiership terms, then we are opening ourselves up to more misery. Houllier is going to waste a whole summer's transfer funds on a player who many think will succeed but then so many believed Diouf would and a number of other expensive flops. manu may waste more money on single players but have they had as many flops as we have in recent years?

by **columbia** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 9:45 pm

More or less all man uniteds big money signings do well for them, i can only think of veron who didnt. And they got a fair bit of chelsea for him even though they payed more.

Three exepensive flops for Liverpool
Heskey 11m
diouf 10m
biscan 5.5m

total = 26.5m

enough said

by **THEBARON** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 10:26 pm

Yes I have to agree that it isn't only Houllier who is responsible for our current plight !
The so called talent scouts haven't given us good value for money recently , particularly when they have gone abroard for their viewing.
The players have to take responsibility , they are treated like kings and paid handsomely for what they do , how many really care for the club ?
Houllier's coaching staff are certainly not free from blame. They work with the players day day out , they must have an input on selection and tactics.
But the ultimate responsibility lies with David Moores. He approves the signings , he publicly backs Houllier ... but does he have the courage and vision to make the right decision ?
I am grateful that our chairman is not an attention seeking egotistical tw#t like Risdale , Ellis or Bates ; and I believe he has a deep passion for the club. But these plus points should not allow us to avoid asking the question of whether or not he is the right man to be in charge.

by **big al** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 10:37 pm

Columbia not so! Fergie has made plenty of poor signings difference is he gets rid of them pronto for example think of all the keepers he's dumped in the last fiev years. Fergie is intelligent to know not to hang on to rubbish in the vain hope of making them better players.

by **columbia** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 10:42 pm

good point i never really thought about keepers. He doesnt make many mistakes with outfield players though.

by **Ade** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 12:43 am

Good point Big Al. How many players need more than 2 seasons to prove themselves? How many players have Fergie and Wenger between them given more than 2 seasons to prove themselves? I can think only of Silvestre at Utd. Ties in with the excellent point someone made earlier about these 2 teams reinventing themselves inside the last 4 years while we're still struggling for the right formula.

See Middlesbro have now pulled out of a deal for Heskey. That's #5m we've lost out on.

We're f##ked, and it'll take more than Cisse to rescue us. This team needs open heart surgery and a massive transfusion, not a sticky plaster and a lucky red scarf.

by **Red** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 12:46 am

I think Houlier and the board are doing a good job, dunno where you get off calling players like Diouf a failure, maybe we havent seen his best, but he's far from a failure.

The negative attitude you guys have is astounding.

by **115-1073096938** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:05 am

Moores, Parry and Houllier. Three clowns, dreaming of winning Carling Cups who have signed this famous club up for mediocrity.

Moores a clown?

He's practically an unknown figure outside anfield, he always backs the manager with superb amounts of money is never rash and doesn't come out with knee jerk reaction bullsh#t like alot of other chairmen in our league. He also doesn't rashly sack managers because of a bad period.

If manu get Saha for £10.5m, a proven striker in the Premiership and we spend £13m+ on Cisse, an unknown quantity in Premiership terms, then we are opening ourselves up to more misery. Houllier is going to waste a whole summer's transfer funds on a player who many think will succeed but then so many believed Diouf would and a number of other expensive flops. manu may waste more money on single players but have they had as many flops as we have in recent years?

Firstly, while i agree Saha is a good player and one i rate highly there are rediculous flaws in your argument. Cisse has well into double figures in terms of caps for France. Saha has none. Cisse has also scored for France. Saha has also only done it for half a season, that is by no means proven premiership class. Last season he shown glimpses and yes i believe he could improve as a player and become even better but that argument is silly. Also Houllier isn't going to waste the money, he is a different class of player to Diouf and one that has the ability to succeed. But then he doesn't deserve a chance.

More or less all man uniteds big money signings do well for them, i can only think of veron who didnt. And they got a fair bit of chelsea for him even though they payed more.

Three exepensive flops for Liverpool
Heskey 11m
diouf 10m
biscan 5.5m

total = 26.5m

enough said

Jeffers, expensive flop, Veron, Taibi, Barthez and Forlan expensive flops. All good managers make mistakes.

Heskey was a major part of the most successful Liverpool team in the last 13 years. He's not a complete flop, i agree he hasn't justified his price tag but he at least he's shown something. The other two are flops i totally agree. But theres two sides to every story.

Good signings on the cheap.

Babbel Free (£1m)
Hyypia £3m (£10m)
Henchoz £4m (£3m)
Finnan £4m (£5m)
Kewell £5m (15m)
Baros £3.5m (6m)

Total = £18.5m

Probable value in brackets taking the deflation into account and the fact the club doesn't want to sell these players £40m.

So look at both sides in future as it clearly wasn't anything like "enough said".

I am grateful that our chairman is not an attention seeking egotistical tw#t like Risdale , Ellis or Bates ; and I believe he has a deep passion for the club. But these plus points should not allow us to avoid asking the question of whether or not he is the right man to be in charge.

Totally agree and the answer is a 100% YES he's the right man. There is no other answer.

Good point Big Al. How many players need more than 2 seasons to prove themselves? How many players have Fergie and Wenger between them given more than 2 seasons to prove themselves? I can think only of Silvestre at Utd. Ties in with the excellent point someone made earlier about these 2 teams reinventing themselves inside the last 4 years while we're still struggling for the right formula.

See Middlesbro have now pulled out of a deal for Heskey. That's #5m we've lost out on.

We're f##ked, and it'll take more than Cisse to rescue us. This team needs open heart surgery and a massive transfusion, not a sticky plaster and a lucky red scarf.

Forlan, Silvestre, Pires, Henry, Cygan... none of which impressed in there first season.

As for being f##ked an the team needing "open heart surgery" i totally agree. Hamann, Hyypia, Finnan, Carragher, Owen, Gerrard, Kewell, Dudek, Henchoz and Kirkland are all rubbish aren't they.

I think Houlier and the board are doing a good job, dunno where you get off calling players like Diouf a failure, maybe we havent seen his best, but he's far from a failure.

The negative attitude you guys have is astounding.

Glad theres someone else positive out there.

But as for Diouf.... £10m??? i expect more. He is decent and would make a good squad player and yes i'd have said ok if it was £4m or £5m. I do like him and won't hold the price against him as he's here now and we can't do f##k all about it, but in all honesty he's not good enough for the first 11 every week. He could cause teams problems comin on as a sub tho. I genuinely think he's a good signing for the squad, just at the wrong price.

by **big al** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 10:26 am

Stu you got your opinion I've got mine. Loyalty is a prize worth cherishing but think of the bigger picture mate. Blind loyalty is a bloody dangerous thing, thats how dictators are born. If houlier was running any other business he'd be lying on a beach in the med now counting his golden handshake money.

by **Owzat** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:23 pm

stu_the_red wrote:Firstly, while i agree Saha is a good player and one i rate highly there are rediculous flaws in your argument. Cisse has well into double figures in terms of caps for France. Saha has none. Cisse has also scored for France. Saha has also only done it for half a season, that is by no means proven premiership class. Last season he shown glimpses and yes i believe he could improve as a player and become even better but that argument is silly. Also Houllier isn't going to waste the money, he is a different class of player to Diouf and one that has the ability to succeed. But then he doesn't deserve a chance.

So what if Cisse has more caps than Saha, we're playing in the Premiership not some mickey mouse confederations cup. Saha has done it in the Premiership as have Henry and Anelka, Cisse is unproven in the Premiership. My arguments are only "flawed" if you completely change the grounds of the debate ie talk about international football when only domestic football is relevant. Heskey has more caps than Baros - who do you rate better? I rest my case. Last time I saw Cisse play for France I got the impression he was in midfield, Saha would have to compete with Anelka and Henry for a place up front.

Bottom line is Saha is one of the Premiership top scorers this season - how many has Cisse got? None, because he plays in France. Until such a time as Cisse is banging in goals in the Premiership then Saha is the safer and more prudent choice

by **Owzat** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:26 pm

columbia wrote:good point i never really thought about keepers. He doesnt make many mistakes with outfield players though.

I dunno, some of the (recent) past players have been decidedly poor signings

Poborsky
Forlan
Blanc
Cruyff
Veron

Those are just names that spring to mind immediately, I'm sure there are some others I could argue a case for

by **columbia** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:02 pm

its says in the paper today Arsenal are getting kluivert for 1.5m. Now that is a bargain. Proven player in spain italy and in holland. Were gonna spend at least 12m on cisse. I think houlier should of looked at kluivert. Arsenal are broke at the minuite because of there new stadium. We would have been able to win a bidding war with them. And the money we would have saved (if we got him for that price) would be 10.5m. If we get in the champions league i would expect there to be at leat another 10m to put on top of that. Thats 20.5m, which we could spend on a quality right sided midfielder and a quality centre half.

by **big al** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:20 pm

I wish I could agree about sacking everyone a Liverpool but I don't. For me its simple Parry and Moores made a mistake keeping Houleir . They have to hang on and hope he pulls a rabbit out of a hat. When they're certain he won't he'll go I recon three more league defeats and its goodbye. I for one don't want 1 more defeat so I'll stick to moaning about s##t head until the end of the season and keeping hoping he resigns but he won't.

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