Liverpool FC Forum

[maguskwt]

After the Aquilani, Keane and Dossena debacles it would be asking a lot of any owners to not only keep the manager but to give him a huge warchest to spend. After his transfer dealings of the last couple of seasons, would you seriously trust him with huge funds because I know I definately wouldn't. In both of the last two closed seasons we have spent in the region of 40 million quid, and still we find ourselves in a situation where Lucas is considered amongst our first choice midfielders and N'Gog is considered second choice striker.

Yes we need investment, but we need to spend whatever money we do have wisely. Having spent the money, we need to actually play the players we have bought (after all, if we don't think they're good enough why buy them in the first place?). When we do play them, we need to adopt a much more expansive outlook.

Lets face it, for all or any of that to happen we need a new manager. Torres is hardly likely to come out and say so, but IMHo when he basically says we haven't got good enough players at the club already it's hardly a ringing endorsement of the manager and his transfer dealings. Get the right man in and back him, it has to be the way to go.

Such a biased view point 

[andy_g]

chillax everybody. unless there are more words that don't appear in these posts i don't see anywhere where he makes the 'buy well or i go' ultimatum. what i do see is things like;
"I've left my home and it's clear that I owe Liverpool many things, and I'm very happy here."
"I want to fight next year to win the Premier League, to win the Champions League or the Europa League"
and
"The fans are worried about players going, it's a problem when you start to fear that your players are going because you know it's because the club is not moving forward, but I don't think that is going to be the situation here."

we all love thommo but i also think he's being over pessimistic. in fact i think too many of us are being over pessimistic. you especially, mick



i share all the concerns though. the owners are nothing but trouble, the manager is maybe at a point where he is incapable - for whatever reason - of getting the best from some seriously good players, and we are in serious danger of missing out on the champions league next season.

i really don't think we will see any big players leave this summer though. torres doesn't strike me as a quitter even though he is surprisingly seeming like a bit of a sulker. gerrard is going to find it hard to leave when he looks into his soul again. and mascherano seems to have sorted his head out for now.

if over the summer either the manager is replaced by someone who will reignite the players' passion, or the owners stump up enough for another good player or two, or aquilani suddenly finds out how to play english football (and the manager picks him) we will be taking a big step back in the right direction. they are all maybe a bit of a long shot but something has got to happen. the owners, who sadly i'm sure will still be 'with' us may be cowboys and liars but they are not stupid. they need to make some money back and they'll sure as hell know that by not taking steps to ensure that our best players stay and that we improve the team it they are more likely to lose out big time.

[tubby]

Mick seems to be missing the point though, the bigger picture. I don't think that is a personal attack on Rafa or his spending policy/record at all not on any level. In fact I read an interview on 442 just the other week and he was singing Rafas praises saying how he had made him a better player.

If anything he is speaking for Rafa saying we need more money to be able to spend on better proven players. Rafa can't exactly come out and say ffs give us more money you American cun.ts can he? But he can speak through the players and that's what he is doing.

Sorry Mick but you are skewing these comments to fit your anti Rafa agenda. Drop it, it's boring.

[fivecups]

In both of the last two closed seasons we have spent in the region of 40 million quid, and still we find ourselves in a situation where Lucas is considered amongst our first choice midfielders and N'Gog is considered second choice striker.

Such a biased view point 

This bit really does feel skewed, strangely at a time when there is no need for any spin.

You might as well say the owners should be thanking Rafa for earning them over £70 million in player sales over the last two seasons! It's as accurate as Mick's statement above.

[redmikey]

and the award for thread to finish me off this season goes too................................

fair do s nando , like mnasha they deserve better, this could be a summer of discontent

[Dundalk]

I dont blame the man one piece

He didnt sign up for this $hit

[Big Niall]

Thommo just ripped the owners to shreds on SSN and said Gerrard, Torres & Rafa will all leave in the summer !!!!

Thommo "I can't believe what's happening at MY club"

"MY club is in a mess from top to bottom"

"It breaks my heart"

If only all our ex-reds had your passion and tell it as it is.

How  can Benitez leaving be bad. He is responsible for the poor squad we have. He has spent  a lot of money but we're barely better than Everton. I'd do cartwheels if he left, it would save us money but I doubt any club in the world would want him as their manager.

[Big Niall]

I dont blame the man one piece

He didnt sign up for this $hit

I agree

A world class player should be competing for league titles; LFC is going down the tubes

[tubby]

Thommo just ripped the owners to shreds on SSN and said Gerrard, Torres & Rafa will all leave in the summer !!!!

Thommo "I can't believe what's happening at MY club"

"MY club is in a mess from top to bottom"

"It breaks my heart"

If only all our ex-reds had your passion and tell it as it is.

How  can Benitez leaving be bad. He is responsible for the poor squad we have. He has spent  a lot of money but we're barely better than Everton. I'd do cartwheels if he left, it would save us money but I doubt any club in the world would want him as their manager.

I didn't hear anyone complain last season when we broke a points record or the season before that. Were you thinking we had a bad season when we won the European Cup or FA Cup?

So we have had a bad season this year so what. Is that all it takes for people to want him out. Are people here that fickle now?

[roberto green]

and the award for thread to finish me off this season goes too................................

Just tying the noose around my neck aswell mate

[Fowler_E7]

Thommo just ripped the owners to shreds on SSN and said Gerrard, Torres & Rafa will all leave in the summer !!!!

Thommo "I can't believe what's happening at MY club"

"MY club is in a mess from top to bottom"

"It breaks my heart"

If only all our ex-reds had your passion and tell it as it is.

How  can Benitez leaving be bad. He is responsible for the poor squad we have. He has spent  a lot of money but we're barely better than Everton. I'd do cartwheels if he left, it would save us money but I doubt any club in the world would want him as their manager.

I didn't hear anyone complain last season when we broke a points record or the season before that. Were you thinking we had a bad season when we won the European Cup or FA Cup?

So we have had a bad season this year so what. Is that all it takes for people to want him out. Are people here that fickle now?

This isnt a just bad season, its a complete disaster! weve lost 15 times in all competition for chirst sake. I personally wouldnt be asking for a change if say for example we wernt in the title race but comfortably in the champions league places and had a decent cup run, but this year he has spent badly, again! the football has been atrocious, the results appalling, we havn't challenged for a trophy of any kind, been dumped out of the champions league in the group stages and are struggling for a Uefa cup spot, to me he has lost the support of the players too.

The situation is unacceptable and i cant see how it can be reversed without a change in management.

[Dirty Barry]

If we don't finish in the top 4 (Which is looking highly unlikely) I don't think there will be any money for all, if Rafa goes  it will be his own choice we can't afford to sack him, if we sell Torres or Gerard he might walk, he might get a better offer or he might just be sick of working for the Americans.

On a plus side I don't think we will be the only team to struggle financially in the coming years, football has to get some reality back into it.

[Sabre]

chillax everybody. unless there are more words that don't appear in these posts i don't see anywhere where he makes the 'buy well or i go' ultimatum.

""I want to fight next year to win the Premier League, to win the Champions League or the Europa League, but for this there have to be signings.""

Well, he left his former club because he wanted to play the Champions league, and he's a loyal guy, he sticks to the club he plays for... as long as he can fight for the football goals he considers important. Which was something that happened in his former club, and may happen here if we don't bring top players -- with our without Rafa.

And for that, there have to be signings (and for that money).


In the other hand, in many threads, by many posters, I see sentences like "Rafa has to accept the blame".

I don't see anyone saying Rafa has nothing be blamed for. It's obvious he has made several mistakes this season, and that's as obvious for me as he did make the club progress until this summer.

But there are more problems than Rafa's mistakes, and there's a future to be worried about. And we do need the money, and the funds to keep fighting. And I'm not so sure the Americans do not splash it because they don't trust Rafa, but because they came here to try and make profit.

I'm certainly worried, and Rafa has nothing to do with it.

[eds]

If we went bankrupt what exactly would happen to Hicks on a personal level? Can he just walk away and start from scrath whilst the club suffers or will he be forced to pay out of his own pocket?

My understanding of this was that the debt which is stifling the club so much is in a company called Kop Holdings which is effectively the club.

As far as I can see these American are stereotypical business fat cats. The dollar is the ONLY thing that matters, the only thing they understand. They care nothing for the club, it's history or it's fans. They are experts in business and debt leverage.

They conned the current owner with their spin and bought the club with borrowed money. They very quickly raised as much money from their ownership of the club as they could, a huge sum in an era of questionable business practice. They paid off their own loans and put all these new loans on the club creating huge debt and huge interest payments. If the club does well, prospers, get back to it's glory days, they profit. If it doesn't and declines into midtable mediocrity or worse, collapses into an uncontrollable nosedive and goes into administration then the club is bankrupt, not the owners.

That is how I see the tragedy of allowing the current owners anywhere near our club.

And that is why Moores should hang himself!

If he refuses to then we shoot the whimpering dog.

[Igor Zidane]

After the Aquilani, Keane and Dossena debacles it would be asking a lot of any owners to not only keep the manager but to give him a huge warchest to spend. After his transfer dealings of the last couple of seasons, would you seriously trust him with huge funds because I know I definately wouldn't. In both of the last two closed seasons we have spent in the region of 40 million quid, and still we find ourselves in a situation where Lucas is considered amongst our first choice midfielders and N'Gog is considered second choice striker.

Yes we need investment, but we need to spend whatever money we do have wisely. Having spent the money, we need to actually play the players we have bought (after all, if we don't think they're good enough why buy them in the first place?). When we do play them, we need to adopt a much more expansive outlook.

Lets face it, for all or any of that to happen we need a new manager. Torres is hardly likely to come out and say so, but IMHo when he basically says we haven't got good enough players at the club already it's hardly a ringing endorsement of the manager and his transfer dealings. Get the right man in and back him, it has to be the way to go.

Not about Rafa anymore or Aquilani ,it's about the investement in the playing staff for the last three transfer windows and the next three whomever the manager is . Maybe the likes of your goodself mick will understand that The Rafa debate and 442 or whatever are just a side issue .Side issues and distractions from the bigger picture and  the more pressing concern and issue . The future of the club under our current owners . For all Rafa's faults and  for the shItty season we're having this year it pales into insignificants compared to what's going to happen in future seasons under these owners and whomever the manager is . You will look back on these last five years with far more endearment when we are a mid table side looking up at the other teams competeing for the trophies. Better start thinking about that is my advice , to late for Rafa now and possibly Gerrard and Torres
,not to late for the club though .