Liverpool FC Forum

[stmichael]

52 minutes in http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b00p3qgh

What a bitter bogeyed, wooden tooth, windowlicking, obsessed gobsh!te 

"they're fortunate to be in it"? they're fortunate to have any players left. they'll be fielding the youth team for the rest of the tournament.

[tonyeh]

In all seriousness, I like Scott's approach.  We're in this bloody competition so why not win it?  Let's hope we can come up against some quality sides and turf em out on their a.rse en route to our first cup in a few years.  The better the competition the sweeter the victory.

Agreed.

I hate the use of the word "deserve" in football matches, but I'm going to use it here. We don't "deserve" to be in any competition, if we aren't willing to try and win it.

[Waldo]

In all seriousness, I like Scott's approach.  We're in this bloody competition so why not win it?  Let's hope we can come up against some quality sides and turf em out on their a.rse en route to our first cup in a few years.  The better the competition the sweeter the victory.

Agreed.

I hate the use of the word "deserve" in football matches, but I'm going to use it here. We don't "deserve" to be in any competition, if we aren't willing to try and win it.

I agree with going out to try and win it but I think Rafa will take the EPL (Top 4) and FA Cup as priority #1 and #2 (in that order).

Of course I will be supporting my team all the way in the tournament but I don't like the idea of Thursday then Sunday (or even Monday) games. This could potentially heap pressure on us as we play catch up in the league. We would potentially be playing catch up EVERY week if those teams round about us win on the Saturday!!

He should use the Europa as a means of giving game time to some of 1st team squad players and reserve players thus preparing them for the 2010/11 season.

[Owzat]

We can't be sure even if we put out the strongest XI we can that we will win it, I'd rather go out first hurdle than semis or lose the final and risk not finishing top four.

And people whine about our reserves' strength, well let them play in the cups and they'll get as much match time as is practical.

[stmichael]

They should just give a Champions league place to the winners. Then we might see a few more clubs take it more seriously.

[bunglemark2]

Considering my previous comments on this poxy competition, I watched Celtic vs. Hapoel Tel Aviv last night....If THIS is the calibre of team in the competition, I'm still not even remotely er.sed......

[aCe']

mmmm... the reserves should find it a thoroughly enjoyable experience... waste of space and time competition, we might aswell get knocked out in the first round...

[Bad Bob]

We can't be sure even if we put out the strongest XI we can that we will win it, I'd rather go out first hurdle than semis or lose the final and risk not finishing top four.

And people whine about our reserves' strength, well let them play in the cups and they'll get as much match time as is practical.

While I'd acknowledge that playing the elite of Europe in the CL might provide different motivation than playing the also-rans of Europe in the re-branded wafer cup, I don't think it can be disputed that last season we saw a tremendous upturn in our league form directly because of our good performance in Europe.  As such, I wouldn't necessarily agree that taking the Europa League seriously and playing to win the thing means that we'll lose sight of what we need to do in the league.  A strong showing in Europe might just bolster our league form instead of hamper it.

[LFC2007]

mmmm... the reserves should find it a thoroughly enjoyable experience... waste of space and time competition, we might aswell get knocked out in the first round...

[aCe']

mmmm... the reserves should find it a thoroughly enjoyable experience... waste of space and time competition, we might aswell get knocked out in the first round...

[JoeTerp]

full complicated scenario (ripped from rawk):

If we beat Fiorentina, we're definitely seeded.



If we draw with Fiorentina, we'll probably be seeded.  We'd rely on at least 2 of the following 5 conditions being met.


1.  Juve v Bayern is not a draw; and is also not a high-scoring match which the away team wins by the odd goal, eg 2-3 or higher

2.  Either Wolfsburg lose at home to MU, or CSKA Moscow lose away to Beşiktaş, or both

3.  Either Marseille lose at home to R Madrid, or Milan lose by 3 goals away to Zurich, or both

4.  Either Barca do not lose away to Kiev, or Barca lose and Rubin v Inter is a draw, (or Barca lose by 5 goals or more)

5.  Either Stuttgart does not win at home to Unirea, or Stuttgart wins by 4 goals or more



If we lose to Fiorentina, we probably won't be seeded.  We'd rely on an unlikely combination of results to satisfy at least 3 of the following 6 conditions.


1.  Bayern lose by 3 more goals than LFC's margin of  loss to Fiorentina

2.  Wolfsburg lose by 5 more, or CSKA lose by 2 more, goals than LFC's margin of  loss to Fiorentina

3.  Marseille lose by 4 more goals than LFC's margin of  loss to Fiorentina

4.  Barca do not lose in Kiev, and there is a winner between Rubin and Inter

5.  Stuttgart lose

6.  Standard dont win, or Olympiakos lose by at least the same margin as LFC

From what I've seen of this competition, you play lots and lots of matches against Icelandic and Finnish teams. If you win them, or most of them, you generally play Sevilla in the final.

this is the first year of the Europa League, so I don't know what "from what I have seen of this competition means"

Yea you might run into those types of teams in the group stages, but in the KO stages, its going to be 85% very legit clubs.


Valencia, Lille, Hamburg, Sporting Lisbon, Roma, Galatasary, Panathinaikos, Villareal, Fenerbache, Benfica, Everton, Shakhtar Donetsk, PSV, Werder Bremen, Ath. Bilbao

Bayern Munich/Juventus, CSKA Moscow/Wolfsburg(german champs), AC Milan/Marseille, Atletico Madrid, Rubin Kazan (russian champs)/ Inter Milan

there are very few clubs that I don't have much fear of at all, and I am not even sure how legit that feeling is: Sparta Prague, Club Brugge, FC Twente, Salzburg, Basel, Hertha Berlin, Hapoel Tel Aviv.

[bunglemark2]

You made a classification error there mate...

Everton should be down on the bottom line with other "small clubs"....Just ask Rafa

[Fauxy]

I fancy Benfica to be our biggest competition.. they play some nice football

[Owzat]

While I'd acknowledge that playing the elite of Europe in the CL might provide different motivation than playing the also-rans of Europe in the re-branded wafer cup, I don't think it can be disputed that last season we saw a tremendous upturn in our league form directly because of our good performance in Europe.

Of course it can be disputed, although it is a bit of a generalisation to offer firm evidence against. Our peak of form was undoubtedly our run of 10 wins in the last 11 games in which time we played only three European games and only two of our last 12 games were in Europe. We won five in a row once we were out of Europe. It helped bigtime that our run in opponents were the likes of West Ham, West Brom ®, Newcastle ®, Blackburn (15th), Hull (17th) and Sunderland (16th) We played only one of the top five, drawing 4-4 with Arsenal. We were in fine form, it was more because we started scoring freely than down to any European influence. That we were scoring freely made winning easier, except when we faced big teams and then we drew 4-4 with Chelsea and Arsenal, but lost 1-3 to Chelsea as our defence became less tight.

The dip in form in January and February that cost us was not because we weren't playing in Europe, but because we weren't scoring enough. We won only three in 11 games in all competitions in January and February, we scored only 12 goals, conceded 11 but kept four clean sheets. Once we were in panic because the mancs had overtaken us we started attacking and Gerrard, Kuyt, Torres and Benayoun all contributed their share of goals in the tailend of the season - all in vain.

There's no obvious correlation between our start to the season and Europe, we were playing poorly at the start of the season as I've said several times and listed the fixtures out twice in other threads. We were winning with late goals, coming back against sides reduced to 10 men and drawing with the likes of Stoke, Fulham and West Ham at home.

As such, I wouldn't necessarily agree that taking the Europa League seriously and playing to win the thing means that we'll lose sight of what we need to do in the league.  A strong showing in Europe might just bolster our league form instead of hamper it.

It might just mean fragile players with injury problems like Agger, Torres, Gerrard and Aquilani play too many games. People are ready to use injuries as an excuse for our poor form, but seem oblivious to the potential for more injuries by playing these players in a secondary cup competition with some fanciful attempt to make it sound like the road to glory.

I've said for some time that I think Europe distracts us, and I'm usually referring to the Champions League. If people think the Europa League will be a walk in the park they should think again. Teams will be of sufficient quality that away days won't be fun, not to mention travel to parts of eastern Europe. Poncy little clubs like the bitters won't think twice about kicking lumps out of our skilled players, that we view the clubs as weaker than us is actually not all good. That means they may not play football but will try and stop us playing to try and get a result by FOUL means or fair.


Would we rather win the Europa League and finish outside the top four, or go out next round and finish in a Champions League spot? If dropping out of the CL is embarrassing this season, imagine how bad it will be if we don't even qualify for it next season - financially as well. From reaching the last 16 and beyond for four seasons in a row to not getting out of the groups and not even qualifying. Rafa's "proud record in Europe" will look rather limp if we are absent from the business end of the Champions League TWO seasons in a row.

A second question, does everyone think a run in the Europa League will keep Rafa his job if we don't finish in the top four? The aim is to win the Premiership, maybe the Champions League is a nice consolation prize to win, but I think the Europa League is so low in the order of prestigious trophies that the loss of revenue from missing out on the Champions League and poor performance in the league might just put the boot up Rafa's rear on his way out the door marked exit.

[Owzat]

I fancy Benfica to be our biggest competition.. they play some nice football

Did you also perchance fancy us to qualify from our CL group, and think Debrecen, Lyon and Fiorentina would be battling for second?

Take nothing for granted, certainly not in the form we are in. Sunderland and Fulham have beaten us away, while villa, brum and citeh have walked away from Anfield with a point or three, so let's assume nothing until we're beating teams we should be on a more regular basis