Liverpool FC Forum

[Redman in wales]

Rotation is not the be all and end all of our problems though it has contributed without question in my opinion. Momentum and confidence in sport are wonderful things, which is why we can reel off the wins at Home and yet we are still searching for our first good result on the road. I've done to death the simple fact that we should have played a proper team in the Haifa Home game and the Sheffield United away game and we wouldn't have been in this predicament today. Monotonous and repetitive it maybe, but a glaringly obvious fact it remains.

Those on here who accused the detractors of overreacting "the league title isn't decided after one game FFS" were wrong. Those who said "hindsight is a wonderful thing" and slagged off the moaners (and then bizarrely are on here after yesterdays game and moaning about rotation themselves) were wrong. We should have taken those games seriously, not rotated when players had barely played a competitive game and got some momentum, some belief and crucially, our first away win in the Prem but we didn't so now we need a solution.

Rafa has realized (in my view anyway) that he made a blunder and had rotated more sensibly since, though still a bit too much for me. FWIW I personally didn't have a problem with the team picked yesterday (with the exception of the baffling tendancy to start with Gerrard left side, and then to ask Bellamy to play there as we decided to return to the unfailingly insuccessful 4-5-1 and copy Bolton). The trouble is though, momentum is hard to stop when you play against it and hard to start when you've fecked it up. As soon as the second goal went in yesterday the game was over. The belief and desire seeped from our team before your eyes and the folly of our previous random selection policy was clearly demonstrated.

We really are at a low ebb away from Home and step one has to be making ourselves difficult to beat at the very least. To achieve this, you start with your givens, the square pegs in square holes and don't try and be too clever. When you consider that you also need to keep the ball up the top of the pitch, there is only one debateable selection in my opinion and one debateable tactiacl choice. The selection conundrum is whether you start with Hyppia or Agger, the tactical one is whther Riise plays left-back or left mid, with Aurelio playing in the other slot.

The team should look something like this,

                                                  Reina

                        Finnan        Carragher    Agger        Aurelio

                        Gerrard       Sissoko         Alonso        Riise

                                       Kuyt             Crouch

It's not particularly ground breaking or clever, but if I was playing against Liverpool that is the team I would least like them to select. It's the one that will do for me. Please, NEVER EVER play our captain on the left. It simply doesn't work and IMHo he's not being a prima-donna getting p!ssed off with it, anybody of his talent who wants to win the game would do the same.

Like Zidane, like Ronaldinho lol

murph... mick said OUR captain doesnt work on the left, not any captain...

anyway...

whole heartedly agree mick. square pegs into square holes (I like that one!) My perfered team at the mo would be exactly the same as yours, but maybe with riise LB and Aurellio LW - Only because from what ive seen of our new brazilian, he's not as good in the tackle as riise on that left hand side - but again that could be due to getting used to english football.

[account deleted by request]

Rotation is not the be all and end all of our problems though it has contributed without question in my opinion. Momentum and confidence in sport are wonderful things, which is why we can reel off the wins at Home and yet we are still searching for our first good result on the road. I've done to death the simple fact that we should have played a proper team in the Haifa Home game and the Sheffield United away game and we wouldn't have been in this predicament today. Monotonous and repetitive it maybe, but a glaringly obvious fact it remains.

Those on here who accused the detractors of overreacting "the league title isn't decided after one game FFS" were wrong. Those who said "hindsight is a wonderful thing" and slagged off the moaners (and then bizarrely are on here after yesterdays game and moaning about rotation themselves) were wrong. We should have taken those games seriously, not rotated when players had barely played a competitive game and got some momentum, some belief and crucially, our first away win in the Prem but we didn't so now we need a solution.

Rafa has realized (in my view anyway) that he made a blunder and had rotated more sensibly since, though still a bit too much for me. FWIW I personally didn't have a problem with the team picked yesterday (with the exception of the baffling tendancy to start with Gerrard left side, and then to ask Bellamy to play there as we decided to return to the unfailingly insuccessful 4-5-1 and copy Bolton). The trouble is though, momentum is hard to stop when you play against it and hard to start when you've fecked it up. As soon as the second goal went in yesterday the game was over. The belief and desire seeped from our team before your eyes and the folly of our previous random selection policy was clearly demonstrated.

We really are at a low ebb away from Home and step one has to be making ourselves difficult to beat at the very least. To achieve this, you start with your givens, the square pegs in square holes and don't try and be too clever. When you consider that you also need to keep the ball up the top of the pitch, there is only one debateable selection in my opinion and one debateable tactiacl choice. The selection conundrum is whether you start with Hyppia or Agger, the tactical one is whther Riise plays left-back or left mid, with Aurelio playing in the other slot.

The team should look something like this,

                                                  Reina

                        Finnan        Carragher    Agger        Aurelio

                        Gerrard       Sissoko         Alonso        Riise

                                       Kuyt             Crouch

It's not particularly ground breaking or clever, but if I was playing against Liverpool that is the team I would least like them to select. It's the one that will do for me. Please, NEVER EVER play our captain on the left. It simply doesn't work and IMHo he's not being a prima-donna getting p!ssed off with it, anybody of his talent who wants to win the game would do the same.

I dont agree with the first half of your post mate, but youve picked a winning team.

I would have switched Riise and Aurelio, but after trying to understand your thinking and having given it some thought, as usual you are right. Aurelio is better positionally and at passing.

[hello_red]

3-0 down at half time and we still go on to win the chanpions league! against the odds in the fa cup final... i feel that Rafas' rotation policy will benifit us in the long run.. have faith!

[Redman in wales]

3-0 down at half time and we still go on to win the chanpions league! against the odds in the fa cup final... i feel that Rafas' rotation policy will benifit us in the long run.. have faith!

ah but you see they're both cup competitions, where consistancy doesn't play as bigger part than the league... what we're after is the premiership!

[Sabre]

I'd like to point out some things in order you criticise those points or you agree.

We come from  3 victories in a row, and we have a defeat away and all the doubts seem to be around rotating and some other aspects, but this situation of doubts is not new here, it happened yesteryear aswell.


Point a) Last season when did  have the 3 good runs of victories (9 in a row)??? IIRC, when we weren't playing in Europe. Sunday, Wednesday, Sunday schedule is complicated, because it's physically demanding and because you haven't a proper training session schedule during the week, not to mention the trips. In a nutshell, playing on wednesdays does much more harm than any squad selection or rotation

Teams like Portsmouth or Everton can do well at early stages because they can focus in one competition, but we'll see who is where in December, when there's the CL stop.

b) Don't you think that playing some of our players every game with such a demanding schedule of games MAY be as bad as dropping them to have them a rest? I think so, but the fruits of this policy are not seen on short term

I don't try to be of the happy-clappy brigade. And it's not that I don't care, LFC is occupies an important place in my heart. I don't mean to say we don't make mistakes neither, and I encourage everybody to say what they don't like about the team. But let's be a little bit more patient when it comes to say a policy is wrong, we're just in october, and for what is worth, we did have the same discussions last year at this point.

[89-1159041913]

we play in the champions league and rotate and were fine
sure weve had a few poor results this season
but we havent been as bad as you lot.
rafas rotation is plain crazy, where as mourinho's
might at times be wrong, its no where near as bad
as rafas.

[Redman in wales]

I'd like to point out some things in order you criticise those points or you agree.

We come from  3 victories in a row, and we have a defeat away and all the doubts seem to be around rotating and some other aspects, but this situation of doubts is not new here, it happened yesteryear aswell.


Point a) Last season when did  have the 3 good runs of victories (9 in a row)??? IIRC, when we weren't playing in Europe. Sunday, Wednesday, Sunday schedule is complicated, because it's physically demanding and because you haven't a proper training session schedule during the week, not to mention the trips. In a nutshell, playing on wednesdays does much more harm than any squad selection or rotation

Teams like Portsmouth or Everton can do well at early stages because they can focus in one competition, but we'll see who is where in December, when there's the CL stop.

b) Don't you think that playing some of our players every game with such a demanding schedule of games MAY be as bad as dropping them to have them a rest? I think so, but the fruits of this policy are not seen on short term

I don't try to be of the happy-clappy brigade. And it's not that I don't care, LFC is occupies an important place in my heart. I don't mean to say we don't make mistakes neither, and I encourage everybody to say what they don't like about the team. But let's be a little bit more patient when it comes to say a policy is wrong, we're just in october, and for what is worth, we did have the same discussions last year at this point.

Ive been on this forum for a while now and i do respect your views Sabre.

I'm not saying squad rotation is a bad thing... i'm saying rotating the defence every single game is a bad thing. I agree sunday-wednesday sunday games can be tough but surly we can keep the defence togther for a couple of games on the trot... or do we have to look at our training - i mean terry plays every game for chelsea and ferdinand plays every game for utd midweek and weekend, they survive, why does carra have to be rested at this stage - is he not as fit as rio or terry?


- we have 10 points from 7 games, utd and chelsea have 16 points from 7 games - they play in european competition aswel - they seem to be managing without rotating their defences so much (i concede they do rotate, but not as often as we do)

[Ciggy]

we play in the champions league and rotate and were fine
sure weve had a few poor results this season
but we havent been as bad as you lot.
rafas rotation is plain crazy, where as mourinho's
might at times be wrong, its no where near as bad
as rafas.

Maureen doesnt rotate players he might take them off after 20 mins in the past when they have had a sh.it game like
Chelsea's problem this season is you where so good on the counter attack with your wide players and teams could'nt handle it.
But now he has had to change his tactics to allow Schevchenco, Ballack and Kalou who I rate very highly he was our Dirks partner at Feyenoord.
So this Chelsea team hasnt come to grips yet with there new formation, the same as us really with our new players, they havent got to grips with the new attacking football we employ.
It isnt helped of course with constant rotation for every game.
Drop players that are injured, take them off if they are heavy legged or they are annonimous in the game.
Some people on here think Rafa is above critism because of the Tropheys he has brought us, but he is human and we make bad decisions he is no differnet.
Maybe more stuborn than most but if its not broken it doesnt need repairing as they say.

If we need to rotate for Cup games so be it, but I would like to see the same back 4 and same midfield for the next 10 games, we have a bit of luxury upfront now, who is our best strike pair I dont know yet?
Probably Kuyt and Crouch.

Its time to swallow your pride Rafa you cannot keep them all happy all the time.
Our strongest 11 every week from now on in the prem, if that doesnt work then I dont know what will, but I along with many others have a feeling it will.

[CousinIT]

Our problems are easy to sort out. Stop rotating

What's the point in players playing well when they know they will be dropped the following week anyway. My example is Crouch. Crouch played against West Ham and Galatasaray and scored and therefore he is the 3rd choice striker. That makes sense. Gerrard is another one. 23 goals from a free role last year, this year lets stick him on the left wing. Agger. Best player for us this year so Rafa goes and drops him. Another problem is the new players. None of them bar Kuyt possibly are good enough to play in that red shirt.

The players need to know who will be playing week in week out and then we can start performing well.

[alessandromagno]

Interesting point about the new players. What you say may prove to be true--at the moment the jury is still out.

[Redman in wales]

It isnt helped of course with constant rotation for every game.
Drop players that are injured, take them off if they are heavy legged or they are annonimous in the game.
Some people on here think Rafa is above critism because of the Tropheys he has brought us, but he is human and we make bad decisions he is no differnet.
Maybe more stuborn than most but if its not broken it doesnt need repairing as they say.

If we need to rotate for Cup games so be it, but I would like to see the same back 4 and same midfield for the next 10 games, we have a bit of luxury upfront now, who is our best strike pair I dont know yet?
Probably Kuyt and Crouch.

Its time to swallow your pride Rafa you cannot keep them all happy all the time.
Our strongest 11 every week from now on in the prem, if that doesnt work then I dont know what will, but I along with many others have a feeling it will.

ciggy speaks alot of sense!     

essentially what i put in my first point at the start of the topic... the need for a constant back 4

[89-1159041913]

Maureen doesnt rotate players he might take them off after 20 mins in the past when they have had a sh.it game like
Chelsea's problem this season is you where so good on the counter attack with your wide players and teams could'nt handle it.
But now he has had to change his tactics to allow Schevchenco, Ballack and Kalou who I rate very highly he was our Dirks partner at Feyenoord.
So this Chelsea team hasnt come to grips yet with there new formation, the same as us really with our new players, they havent got to grips with the new attacking football we employ.
It isnt helped of course with constant rotation for every game.
Drop players that are injured, take them off if they are heavy legged or they are annonimous in the game.
Some people on here think Rafa is above critism because of the Tropheys he has brought us, but he is human and we make bad decisions he is no differnet.
Maybe more stuborn than most but if its not broken it doesnt need repairing as they say.

If we need to rotate for Cup games so be it, but I would like to see the same back 4 and same midfield for the next 10 games, we have a bit of luxury upfront now, who is our best strike pair I dont know yet?
Probably Kuyt and Crouch.

Its time to swallow your pride Rafa you cannot keep them all happy all the time.
Our strongest 11 every week from now on in the prem, if that doesnt work then I dont know what will, but I along with many others have a feeling it will.

we do rotate every now again, but when we do they nearly are always forgotten about, because he doesnt make
mass changes. he'll perhaps change one or two
players, but thats it, he doesnt make mass
changes like rafa seems to be doing.
yes we were dangerous on the counter attack
and we still are, we just changed our formation
about a bit, and in time the players
will get used to it.
youre also correct a fair amount of our players
havent got used 2 the formation that jose
has placed this season
but they soon get used to it, as jose has a starting
eleven in his mind, you can nearly always guess
what team he will put out, bar a few minor tweeks.
your manager isnt allowing players to adjust due to
his constant changing, youll play hypia, carragher, finnan
and risse one match and then agger, hyypia, finnan
and aurelio in the next match, therefore
stopping any communication between the previous
back four.

[account deleted by request]

Liverpool have played 7 games and got 10 points
Liverpool after 7 games last season had 10 points

Chelsea after 7 games have 16 points
Chelsea last season after 7 games had 21 points

So we are in fact 5 points nearer to Chelsea than we were last season at this time, and we are doing no worse points wise than we did last season. 

That is not to say everything is great because it obviously isnt, but to perhaps suggest that things arnt quite as bad as yesterdays match made us feel.

For a balanced view Manu after 7 games 16pts
Manu last season after 7 games 14 pts

Arsenal after 6 games have 11 points
Arsenal after 7 games last season 13 points

So we are 2pts worse off against the Mancs but we had already played the Mancs at Anfield this time last season.

[Ciggy]

Liverpool have played 7 games and got 10 points
Liverpool after 7 games last season had 10 points

Chelsea after 7 games have 16 points
Chelsea last season after 7 games had 21 points

So we are in fact 5 points nearer to Chelsea than we were last season at this time, and we are doing no worse points wise than we did last season. 

That is not to say everything is great because it obviously isnt, but to perhaps suggest that things arnt quite as bad as yesterdays match made us feel.

Theres one big problem though Saint its the Mancs that are gaining the momentum not Chelsea, and whilst we compare our results to those of Chelsea's the mancs are running away from everyone.
As much as I dont like Fergie there is noway that team will feck it up he wont let them.

[account deleted by request]

The only decent side the Mancs have faced (Arsenal)they have lost to. They have some tricky matches coming up Wigan away ,Liverpool at OT and then Bolton away. We have a long spell of very winnable games coming up (Mancs and Arsenal excepted) and if we get on a roll they will be trailing in our dust.