Liverpool FC Forum

[GYBS]

Torres won the EUROPEAN CHAMPIONSHIP with Spain, Masch has won three league titles and the olymoic games twice! Agger has won the Danish league and cup and the FA CUP WITH LIVERPOOL

Does it matter what they won with anyone else - isnt it about what they win with us that counts - so far - feck all .

Forgot Agger arrived in the jan .

[account deleted by request]

Torres won the EUROPEAN CHAMPIONSHIP with Spain, Masch has won three league titles and the olymoic games twice! Agger has won the Danish league and cup and the FA CUP WITH LIVERPOOL

Does it matter what they won with anyone else - isnt it about what they win with us that counts - so far - feck all .

Forgot Agger arrived in the jan .

Yeah and all that Jinx Kuyts fault

[GYBS]

Torres won the EUROPEAN CHAMPIONSHIP with Spain, Masch has won three league titles and the olymoic games twice! Agger has won the Danish league and cup and the FA CUP WITH LIVERPOOL

Does it matter what they won with anyone else - isnt it about what they win with us that counts - so far - feck all .

Forgot Agger arrived in the jan .

Yeah and all that Jinx Kuyts fault

Right so we need to add that to the list of reasons why we dont win then .

[bigmick]

I've said it a few times now, the reason why you pay managers huge sums of money is so they get big decisions right. Not only do they get them right, they get them right quickly. That's why Rafa earns more in a week than most of us do in a year.

Now here's a question. Once we'd sold Alonso, and once we'd decided to sign an injured replacement, what would have been the best course of action? I'll give you a possibility or an option if you prefer. How about we DECIDE AT THAT POINT that until Aquilani comes back, Gerrard must play in central midfield. Given that, we also decide to blood Benayoun/Babel as the support striker. Houston, we have a plan. In pre-season games we actually give it a bit of a whirl, and then when the season starts proper that's what we do. Gerrard plays central midfield with either Masherano or Lucas.

Is there anybody in the Universe who doesn't think this would have been the best way to go? Yes people aren't going to applaud your astuteness and tell you how clever you are because it's a fairly obvious move. We know that Gerrard is a World Class central midfielder with bags of attacking intent, so it's a natural match between him and Masherano or Lucas.

Instead of that though, what do we do? We start the season with Gerrard up top, Masherano/Lucas in midfield and lose two out of our first three matches (after jolly-ups galore pre season which did nobody any favours). Realising we have a problem, we switch Gerrard back into midfield and bingo! Suddenly it all clicks and we muller everyone we play. Then, after four wins on the bounce or whatever it was we decide to switch it back again. We lose the next two matches 2-0 and look a shadow of the free flowing unit seen in the previous matches.

Top managers get big decisions right often. They don't make obvious mistakes often. Is this an example of top management, of tactical genius, or something else? I know what I think, what about you?

[GYBS]

Well i guess starting gerrard with torres is not a bad thing when you consider the history of playing them two together and the season before people where complaining about splitting them two up to play keane with torres .

As for sunday as - said chances were created and they werent taken .

Fiorentina we were shocking man for man that night and the players didnt perform .

[tubby]

That is what Rafa will probably do Mick. But I think he is trying to get Lucas to step it up as quick as possible so he can vidicate himself and his decision to not put Gerrard back in the middle.

[GYBS]

SO doesnt rafa do what he thinks is best for the team now and its all to just vindicate his choices and his decisions ? i know people dont like him or rate etc etc but im pretty sure everything rafa does is what he thinks is good for the team - yes he may not get it right every time but then again which manager does .

[bigmick]

I wish I could quote two posts at once, if I could I would quote Bavs and GYBS's together. GYBS put the blanket down mate, stop trying to drown out the question with nonsense. It's a simple question, should we have played Gerrard in central midfield until Aquilani is back? Yes or no?

What you're telling me is he might have got it wrong but who can blame him? The answer to your question is anyone who has a clue, because some of us told him the way it was going to be before the season started, AND told him the way it was while we were losing. Having fecked it up once then though, to go backwards and feck it up again when he's already stumbled upon the solution is nonsense.

Bav, Lucas isn't going to step up into the role of primary ball distributer. And, if Rafa's priority is self vindication rather than the team, it says it all really.

[account deleted by request]

The irritating thing is we got off to a flyer last season after having a pretty good preseason, while the year before that (when we had a terrible pre-season and lost to some cr@ppy German team 5-0) we had a terrible start.  Surely it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that while "you don't get points for pre-season games" it does help set up your team for the season!

I think Rafa makes too many mistakes that cost us points at vital times. I also think apart from the obvious one of NOT playing Gerrard in CM, Carra has looked very uncomfortable when playing on the left of the defence, hopefully once Agger is back sanity will return.

[GYBS]

In some games we should of done and in some games we didnt need too IMO.

And what the feck is blanket throwing ?!?!?

Is that a new mickism .

Nonsense ? Because Rafa stuck with a tried and tested method that worked bloody wonders TWICE resulting is us scoring by the hatful .

Maybe there should be something we should look at ? Not taking our chances ? despite this lucas and masher in midfield and gerrard playing high with torres mistake we have created chances yet they havent been taken by many players and them there is the individual errors that have occured numerous times (namely coming from our defence) that has resulted in us loosing points - is that all down to the manager not playing gerrard in midfield ?

[tubby]

I wish I could quote two posts at once, if I could I would quote Bavs and GYBS's together. GYBS put the blanket down mate, stop trying to drown out the question with nonsense. It's a simple question, should we have played Gerrard in central midfield until Aquilani is back? Yes or no?

What you're telling me is he might have got it wrong but who can blame him? The answer to your question is anyone who has a clue, because some of us told him the way it was going to be before the season started, AND told him the way it was while we were losing. Having fecked it up once then though, to go backwards and feck it up again when he's already stumbled upon the solution is nonsense.

Bav, Lucas isn't going to step up into the role of primary ball distributer. And, if Rafa's priority is self vindication rather than the team, it says it all really.

I know Lucas will never fill that role. Infact I think he plays better when he is actually going forward but that's another topic altogether..

PS You can quote multiple people. It's just not as easy as to do on other forums. So long as you know the code for the tags ect...

[Sir Roger]

I wish I could quote two posts at once, if I could I would quote Bavs and GYBS's together. GYBS put the blanket down mate, stop trying to drown out the question with nonsense. It's a simple question, should we have played Gerrard in central midfield until Aquilani is back? Yes or no?

What you're telling me is he might have got it wrong but who can blame him? The answer to your question is anyone who has a clue, because some of us told him the way it was going to be before the season started, AND told him the way it was while we were losing. Having fecked it up once then though, to go backwards and feck it up again when he's already stumbled upon the solution is nonsense.

Bav, Lucas isn't going to step up into the role of primary ball distributer. And, if Rafa's priority is self vindication rather than the team, it says it all really.

I think by now we all know what Rafas way of thinking. Cautious, meticulous, obsessive, stubborn. After the match in the pub last night we had the usual post mortem and gnashing of teeth. But one comment really stuck out to me. One of the lads said that we had gone backwards since Rafa had taken over. Cue the laughter and ridicule but he stuck to his guns. He said that we are constantly being reminded (usually by Rafa) of how much stronger the squad was now. But isnt the accusation by others that Chelsea and the skanks have more strength and depth than us? Who do we have on the bench to get us out of the shi't? Voronin...
Then he went on to point out that only for the injury to kewell was smicer brought on in Istanbul. And to leave Hamman on the bench was madness. Except for the injuries to Kewell and Finnan, as has been pointed out in another thread, Rafa would probably have kept the same team for an hour and we could have been six nil down!
Then he said that the FA cup was a scrape through against lesser opposition (e.t. and penalties again) and finally that Rafas team selection in the second Milan CL final was bordering on criminal. To leave Crouch until the 78th minute and Bellamy out altogether yet play Zenden was the mother of all ups. Since then, he argued, what have we won? No more finals, second in the league. Thats it. He said that Rafas way, or the "Rafalution" was the emperors new clothes kept going because he fluked the CL in his first season.
Is he right?

[GYBS]

Didnt we beat both chelsea and man utd on the way to winning the FA Cup ?

Werent we all over Milan in the second CL final

So we win against Milan first time and he gets no credit - we loose then next and its his fault .

The squad that Rafa took over ended up 30 odd points from the title winners - last season we were 6 ? 4 was it - is that not improvement ..

[Sir Roger]

Didnt we beat both chelsea and man utd on the way to winning the FA Cup ?

Werent we all over Milan in the second CL final

So we win against Milan first time and he gets no credit - we loose then next and its his fault .

The squad that Rafa took over ended up 30 odd points from the title winners - last season we were 6 ? 4 was it - is that not improvement ..

What about our strength and depth?

[bigmick]

It seems the answers must have got lost in the post. Should we have played Gerrard in central midfield from game one this season?

If we had played Gerrard in central midfield from game one this season, would we have more points, less points, or the same number of points?

Simple question really, no blankets required.