Liverpool FC Forum

[tubby]

As if there wasn't enough pressure on Aquilani before there must be a lot more now. God I hope we beat the mancs next week.

[bigmick]

As if there wasn't enough pressure on Aquilani before there must be a lot more now. God I hope we beat the mancs next week.

I think in many ways the reverse is true Bav to be honest. It now looks like he'll be able to come into a situation where the pressure of a title challenge isn't there, and he can get himself up to speed in order to make a contribution in the cups which surely is our best option at the moment.

Now I know people will start foaming at the mouth because I've said that, but that's how I see it. Even if we beat Man Utd next week we will still be four points behind them, and they are ticking off difficult and tricky games with unerring regularity. If Chelsea beat Blackburn at Home we will remain six points behind them in any case, not to mention Arsenal (who are impressing me more week by week), Man City and Tottenham.

Obviously if we don't beat the Mancs it is just about officially all over, but my feeling is that even if we do, it is more about damaging them than it is about propelling us back into the title race.

No, it's the cups for us now IMHO. Aquilani can come in, find his feet, and hopefully be upto speed by Christmas.

[tubby]

I agree, infact I thought after the Villa game it had to be about the cups this year. But we need to finish in the top 4 too. At what point Rafa will publicily acknowledge that is anyones guess but if we continue like we are going it can't be long before he does. It's just a shame when you look at how much more fight we showed last season.

[lakes10]

As if there wasn't enough pressure on Aquilani before there must be a lot more now. God I hope we beat the mancs next week.

it will be good to beat them but in truth i do feel our chance of winning the prem has gone.

as for getting rid of the manager now.........no

give him till xmas and if we are still not in the top 4 then thats the time for him to go, unlike others on here i think its better to get the new manager in, wright off the rest of the year, give him a chance to see what he has got and where he needs the new players.

if you dont you spend the first part of the next year trying to build a team and thats another year gone.


as for today well again i ask myself how the hell can a manger buy 67 players and still look that bad.........it was not down to lack of money.

[eonerf]

I have to say that nobody could really have predicted how downhill Carra and Skrtel would go this season so at the time spending £10m on Michael Turner (who would have basically been our fourth choice central defender) might have seemed more pointless than spending money on getting Aquilani as a replacement for Alonso and Johnson to add some flair to the team.

I would of liked to have seen Bent at the club but lets be honest, would he really of wanted to be on the bench? After all, I can't imagine Torres playing alongside another striker unless we did sign someone like Carlton Cole so Darren Bent wouldn't of got a lot of chances to start for us. Since we haven't got enough money to buy a top-class striker who can complement Torres, what we do need is a good striker who would be happy to sit on a bench which is a problem since most strikers seem to be selfish b******s 

[RedSi35]

Something needs to happen. Average at the back,middle and up top today and has been that way for most of this season barring 1 or 2 games.

We just seem to lack drive so far. Hopefully when Aquilani returns fully fit and raring to go it will add some spice to the team. Unfortunately it seems that it will be too late this season.

Investment into the team needs to be sooner rather than later, cant see that happening either.

I had a scary thought today, when Gerrard retires ( 3 years time maybe ) wtf are we gonna do then:p

[baldricks_cunning_plan]

We're playing cat and mouse. Letting everyone think we're out of the title race, then sneak up on the blindside and take the title in May.

[heimdall]

They had three players on that pitch today who we couldnt afford to buy in the summer transfer window, Fact

Well it's "kind of" a fact Nan. Yes we couldn't have afforded the 22 million quid for Bent, Cattermole and Turner in addition to the 39 million we had spent on Johnson, the Greek bloke and Aquilani, but I dare say if we'd not bought one of the more expensive options we might have been able to stretch to it.

Funnily enough I think all three of Sunderlands big signings are the type of players we should be looking at more often. Up and coming, hungry, home based, point to prove players often from less glamorous clubs can often be useful additions to a squad or team, and for some reason they have become the preserve of the likes of Everton and Villa in recent years.

I've long said we should be looking closer to home sometimes, and in all fairness anybody who took a couple of minutes to look at Darren Bents career stats and watch him a couple of times would have known that he had a good chance at the very least of being a good signing.

Mick we tried to get Turner but coulnt afford him , that i know to be true, Aqalani money is payable on the never never, Would you have been made up if we signed Bent , i wouldnt , im just pointing out that they had 3 players who if we did wanna sign in the tranfer window , we couldnt have afforded them anyway.

An anyone who thinks another manager who may suddenly become available , Mr Michael   an wave a magic wand an we will suddenly become wonderful , sorry but im not havin it.

We at the moment are simply not good enough, there ive said it. The strengh an dept of the team is diabolical, an unless we spend big on world class an i mean world class , Then we are not gonna be able to compete, Just a side note here,IMO  Rafa if he was given the amount of finance the Portugese fella had an and has got now would batter him all over the park tacticaly. The Portusese fella wouldnt put up with having no money available , he wouldnt put up with havin to wheel deal,

Oh sorry I didn't realise Porto were a rich club. If you are saying that we have to buy the league Nanny then I would rather have soemone with a sense of adventure, flair and tactical nouse as our manager, not some emotionally stunted, stubborn as a donkey, footballing dunce like Rafa.

[Rush Job]

No, you leave the manager where he is. You support him and you support the team, and you just hope that when the big players come back, and when Aquilani gets going, we can make a run at a trophy or two.

As for the manager and his record/achievements, well that debates been done many times. No doubt as time goes on some people will revisit their stance and wonder if they called it right or not. It matters not a jot either way whether any of us did really, as we now have a very powerful manager with a huge backroom staff, a squad and academy full of his recruits, and a massive contract which will need paying whether or not he is at the helm. For my part I made my call some time ago and unsurprisingly I suppose I don't think I'll be for changing it anytime soon.

Not sure if thats one off your sly swipes or not mate?  If so you should have quoted.
Nothing is set in stone mate, especially opinion.
Its not about being right or wrong or who knows the most,or even who deserves all the credit for calling a 50/50 right.
You back the manager untill a time comes that you think we could get someone else in who could do a better job. Now that time will come to us at different times if not at all, its not about well i thought that last week or last year so that means I know more than you.
FTR I dont think we should be letting go off the boss just yet, but if something drastic was to happen and baring in mind we cant afford to splash the cash, we could do a lot worse than Hodgson.
I just thought I would be the first to put it out there, so if it becomes a "mainstream" opinion I can claim all the credit and bragging rights.
Are we so different?

[heimdall]

Nan I would have been made up if we'd signed Bent to be honest, yes. I've been saying for a long time that we need a viable and credible alternative to our star front man, and the Sunderland match didn't reach us anything we didn't already know about Kuyt as a striker, Voronin or N'Gog. Bent is a good player, arguably a very good one, and Sunderland stole him for 10 million quid, absolutely nicked him.

I did read on here about Turner, and yes my feeling is also that we couldn't afford him after we'd bought Johnson and Aquilani. Yes you could say that the owners could have backed Rafa more (and I'd agree with you to be honest, I've said that many times) but Rafa did get to spend 39 million quid or whatever it was on players, add ons or no add ons. I know we brought almost all of that in through the sale of Alonso, but you could equally argue that the likes of Man Utd and Arsenal came nowhere near spending the transfer money which they brought in, finishing hugely in credit over the Summer.

I'm not going to get into talking about any Portuguese fellas on here, and in all honesty I'm reluctant to get into another in depth disection of Rafa's record, his spend and all the rest. I've taken a fair bit of flak these last two weeks and unusually for me I haven't got the stomach for it today.

Ultimately of course, people make their own judgement. You look at the team, how long the manager has been here, the players that have been through, how good the squad currently is, how many trophies we have won and are likely to win in your opinion, how good we were last season and how much we have progressed to this season, how we are performing relative to other clubs given their spend and the length of time their managers have been there etc etc. You weigh all of that up, and you come to a conclusion whether or not you think the achievements match your ambition for the team.

I've always had the utmost respect for anybodies opinion that they think Rafa is the right man for the job, he is doing the best that is possible under the circumstances, nobody else could improve on what he is doing given the resources available, nobody else could get this bunch of players to achieve more than they are etc. They have obviously considered the factors which I mentioned earlier and come to that conclusion which is absolutely fine. I considered the same things and came to a different conclusion quite a long time ago now, and I can't help that. that doesn't mean though that I think we should ditch a manager in October, that would be madness.

So are you saying that all managers would play Lucas and Mashca in the center of park starving Stevie of Nando of any decent passes. I highly doubt that.
Are you also saying that all managers woudl openly criticise their senior players instead of maybe looking at themsleve sin the mirror and putting there hand up to tactical naiivity, again I doubt it.

Anyway you've certainly changed your tune, wasn't so long ago you were baying for Rafa's blood now you calim to have always supported him 

[bigmick]

Anyway you've certainly changed your tune, wasn't so long ago you were baying for Rafa's blood now you calim to have always supported him 

I think you need to re-read it mate, I think the opposite of what you are saying and I make it clear in the post.

I'm simply making the point that while I fully respect peoples views when they say he is doing a fantastic job etc etc, I personally don't think that. Maybe it's not clear I'll re-read it myself.

[Rush Job]

Nan I would have been made up if we'd signed Bent to be honest, yes. I've been saying for a long time that we need a viable and credible alternative to our star front man, and the Sunderland match didn't reach us anything we didn't already know about Kuyt as a striker, Voronin or N'Gog. Bent is a good player, arguably a very good one, and Sunderland stole him for 10 million quid, absolutely nicked him.

I did read on here about Turner, and yes my feeling is also that we couldn't afford him after we'd bought Johnson and Aquilani. Yes you could say that the owners could have backed Rafa more (and I'd agree with you to be honest, I've said that many times) but Rafa did get to spend 39 million quid or whatever it was on players, add ons or no add ons. I know we brought almost all of that in through the sale of Alonso, but you could equally argue that the likes of Man Utd and Arsenal came nowhere near spending the transfer money which they brought in, finishing hugely in credit over the Summer.

I'm not going to get into talking about any Portuguese fellas on here, and in all honesty I'm reluctant to get into another in depth disection of Rafa's record, his spend and all the rest. I've taken a fair bit of flak these last two weeks and unusually for me I haven't got the stomach for it today.

Ultimately of course, people make their own judgement. You look at the team, how long the manager has been here, the players that have been through, how good the squad currently is, how many trophies we have won and are likely to win in your opinion, how good we were last season and how much we have progressed to this season, how we are performing relative to other clubs given their spend and the length of time their managers have been there etc etc. You weigh all of that up, and you come to a conclusion whether or not you think the achievements match your ambition for the team.

I've always had the utmost respect for anybodies opinion that they think Rafa is the right man for the job, he is doing the best that is possible under the circumstances, nobody else could improve on what he is doing given the resources available, nobody else could get this bunch of players to achieve more than they are etc. They have obviously considered the factors which I mentioned earlier and come to that conclusion which is absolutely fine. I considered the same things and came to a different conclusion quite a long time ago now, and I can't help that. that doesn't mean though that I think we should ditch a manager in October, that would be madness.

So are you saying that all managers would play Lucas and Mashca in the center of park starving Stevie of Nando of any decent passes. I highly doubt that.
Are you also saying that all managers woudl openly criticise their senior players instead of maybe looking at themsleve sin the mirror and putting there hand up to tactical naiivity, again I doubt it.

Anyway you've certainly changed your tune, wasn't so long ago you were baying for Rafa's blood now you calim to have always supported him 

"tactical naivity"

You were calling him a "great coach" the other day?
So what is he great at coaching?

Defeats??

[Madmax]

Not really sure how this season will unfold but if we are not to win the league this season than im hoping atleast will have a few cups to our name. Im sure we won't finnish 8th and we will get going but this poor start is goign to haunt us dearly.
Mancs and chelsea will always be up there and arsenal from suffering there bliiip seems like they have struck back on form. Not to mention spurs and man city in the mix.
Its going to be a tough season and i would love it if thing go our way and we end up fighting with chelsea and mancs for the title.
The way things are going seems like will be squating with spurs,villa,man citeh for a champs league spot.

If we do beat the mancs things could change slightly but its still going to be tough with plenty of fixtures piled up anyhow our chances are slim but lets just pray something miraculous happens.

[maguskwt]

yeah so start a thread to show that you have given up on the team you support... nice going...

Stop trolling if you can't add to the topic fu.ck off.

and you added to the thread? 

Yeah I did if you bothered to read my post before that one really get a life.

... right... what an added on value that post was... a single line of whining...  .... if you have to whine at least whine a paragraph so that you can add abit more mysery to this miserable thread... 

[Lando_Griffin]

We could never have lost this game on the basis of superior tactics or players by Sunderland. It was always going to come down to heart and intensity.

The dissapointment is seeing us go thru the same things we've done in such circumstances, always leaving it to the 60min to make a sub; always leaving to the last few minutes to raise the tempo..It almost feels like we are going thru the same all too familiar motions...

You watch United and Chelsea in such circumstances and they ALWAYS look more likely to come back than us...

Its sad to admit but Rafa still has not mastered the mentality of the English game.

No, you're absolutely right:

Rafa win percentage: 56.70%.

Fergie win percentage: 58.62%.

Wenger win percentage: 57.26%.

Dalglish win percentage: 60.60%.

Shankly win percentage: 52.19%.

He's REALLY out of his depth, isn't he?