Liverpool FC Forum

[Lando_Griffin]

For me Babel is a right winger/Striker he is never in 1,000,000 years a left winger he really is lost out there.Its not hard to spot reallly.Problem is he always cuts inside I think because he don't trust his left foot.Is this his fault ? No.We have seen more from him on the right and up front tho like most young players at his age being consistent isn't their stong points , more so if being asked to do things they don't believe they can do.If Rafa wanted him to be a left winger he should have bought him 2 years earlyer and trained him that way.

If that's the case, why does he play there for Holland and why did he play in that position when we signed him?

he doesnt lando he plays left of a 4-3-3, major difference thane left on 4-5-1

Would you care to explain this major difference?

[Ben Patrick]

4-4-2 is a left winger isolated on the touchline. When you get the ball the chances of cutting inside and shooting on your right foot are limited as you are far wider.
When you are the left forward in a three you are far more infield and in better goalscoring areas when you receive the ball.

[Ben Patrick]

Just to explain thats why i feel kuyt has done well as a right mid with us - meaning better than when he was a striker.

He is taking up similar positions to what he does when he plays for Holland.
Not identical, but similar.

Thats why i have said if those two played either side of torres with a 3 man centre midfield - it could work for us as a second option in the last 20 minutes.

[made in UK]

Kuyt's form has been average at best so far this season which is dissapointing to see at a time like this. Just when you need an experienced proffesional like Kuyt to step up and take the impetus during tough times, he's gone missing. Should we expect anything else though knowing his game? Probably not in all honesty, he isn't going to inspire the team with a shimmey here and an injection of pace there, thats more akin to Johnson's style and he's a fullback! Popping up with a goal or two would be nice, considering he is one player who has been played consistently in his position all season. But that doesn't look likely to happen anytime soon either. But I shouldn't expect players to produce pieces of brilliance when their ability doesn't allow them to.

[BOODIDDY]

Finally i can ppost after a year away. Right, here goes. Dirk Kuyt a great workhorse, but techniccally poor. Not having a good season up to now. Maybe, cos alonso isn't picking him out anymore. For me, when fit, benny and reina should be out wide.

[bigmick]

In fairness to Dirk, when some were getting carried away with him last season "Best right midfielder in the Premiership" etc etc, it was always fairly obvious that he was going to have trouble matching that level of performance for a second season running. As the fella who was made in Uk says, he is a player who we know has fairly limited technical ability so nobody should be surprised when he kind of reverts to type.

The problem with him as was mentioned last season, is that although his goal scoring record for a right midfielder is excellent and although he runs around a lot, his contribution to the flow of the team, it's rhythm and the like is negligable. You could even make a case for his impact on our fluency being negative rather than positive such are his limitations.

In a nutshell, if he doesn't score fairly regualrly, you begin to properly focus on what he brings to the team as a right midfielder and aside from his undoubted work-rate, it's not a long list. I thought his was a big contribution to our form last season, he just always seemed to find a goal when we most needed it. Equally, I think the deterioration in his form this season is second only to the central midfield vacuum in terms of importance in our wretched run.

All that said, I don't think we have a viable alternative to him to be honest, with the obvious exception of the captain who we really need to get fit before we start messing around with him. Equally I've suggested Johnson who would no doubt be a revelation there, but I'd advocate leaving him where he is if push came to shove. Once Aquilani is fitr though, I'll bet Rafa is tempted to switch him into Gerrards slot and push Gerrard right from time to time, meaning Dirk would miss out.

[Lando_Griffin]

4-4-2 is a left winger isolated on the touchline. When you get the ball the chances of cutting inside and shooting on your right foot are limited as you are far wider.
When you are the left forward in a three you are far more infield and in better goalscoring areas when you receive the ball.

I'm trying, I really am, but I can't ever remember Babel playing in a 4-4-2 formation for us.

We play a 4-2-3-1 system, which translates very easily into a 4-3-3 or a 4-5-1. 4-4-2? Nah - Gerrard is the pin-point of the 3 in midfield.

The closest I can think of is when he actually plays up front alongside another forward, but then the the make-up of the midfield has no bearing on him.

Believe it or not, he plays the same role for us as for Holland. The only difference is that Rafa expects him to track back as well - that shouldn't affect a player's game too adversely.

Well - a player who can be a*sed, that is...

[Ben Patrick]

4-4-2 is a left winger isolated on the touchline. When you get the ball the chances of cutting inside and shooting on your right foot are limited as you are far wider.
When you are the left forward in a three you are far more infield and in better goalscoring areas when you receive the ball.

I'm trying, I really am, but I can't ever remember Babel playing in a 4-4-2 formation for us.

We play a 4-2-3-1 system, which translates very easily into a 4-3-3 or a 4-5-1. 4-4-2? Nah - Gerrard is the pin-point of the 3 in midfield.

The closest I can think of is when he actually plays up front alongside another forward, but then the the make-up of the midfield has no bearing on him.

Believe it or not, he plays the same role for us as for Holland. The only difference is that Rafa expects him to track back as well - that shouldn't affect a player's game too adversely.

Well - a player who can be a*sed, that is...

I see your point mate - but to me when he plays wide in our current system he is hugging the touchline.
Thats why Riera is a better bet.
Babel's decision making and poor touch 9 times out of 10 mean that he gives away posession more often than not.
And when he does get his touch right he is often too far wide to get a shot in on goal.

[stmichael]

In fairness to Dirk, when some were getting carried away with him last season "Best right midfielder in the Premiership" etc etc, it was always fairly obvious that he was going to have trouble matching that level of performance for a second season running. As the fella who was made in Uk says, he is a player who we know has fairly limited technical ability so nobody should be surprised when he kind of reverts to type.

The problem with him as was mentioned last season, is that although his goal scoring record for a right midfielder is excellent and although he runs around a lot, his contribution to the flow of the team, it's rhythm and the like is negligable. You could even make a case for his impact on our fluency being negative rather than positive such are his limitations.

In a nutshell, if he doesn't score fairly regualrly, you begin to properly focus on what he brings to the team as a right midfielder and aside from his undoubted work-rate, it's not a long list. I thought his was a big contribution to our form last season, he just always seemed to find a goal when we most needed it. Equally, I think the deterioration in his form this season is second only to the central midfield vacuum in terms of importance in our wretched run.

All that said, I don't think we have a viable alternative to him to be honest, with the obvious exception of the captain who we really need to get fit before we start messing around with him. Equally I've suggested Johnson who would no doubt be a revelation there, but I'd advocate leaving him where he is if push came to shove. Once Aquilani is fitr though, I'll bet Rafa is tempted to switch him into Gerrards slot and push Gerrard right from time to time, meaning Dirk would miss out.

I'd pretty much agree with that. I mean I wasn't the guy's greatest fan before last season but last season he excelled himself and was exceptional. Unfortunately he's been a shadow of that player this season. The other night he looked off the pace.

I think Dirk himself would be the first to admit that he hasn't got the guile, skill or pace to be a winger. I came from the game the other day thinking he is the fault our build up play is very slow at the moment.

However when your only real competition for a position is Ryan Babel, then it's going to take a hell of a lot of dreadful displays for you to lose you r place in the team.

[tonyeh]

Hmmm...I seem to remember Dirk Kuyt being pretty average before Christmas last season too. It was really only in the second half of the season that he did well...and by "well" I mean be in the right place at the right time for a rebound or the like.

On the whole though I think Kuyt, like Liverpool in general overachieved last season and I don't expect to see it repeated this year.

I really wish he would tap into that awareness that he managed to mine last season. More bodies in the box = more goals.

[Lando_Griffin]

Could it be that Kuyt's form is linked in with that of the team?

[Dazzer]

Could it be that Kuyt's form is linked in with that of the team?

Lando is right to a point some of kuyts form can be linked with the team but he still has the worst first touch I have ever seen.

[REDTILLDEAD]

Could it be that Kuyt's form is linked in with that of the team?

Lando is right to a point some of kuyts form can be linked with the team but he still has the worst first touch I have ever seen.

Dirk Kuyt in one word...........Average!

[Dazzer]

4-4-2 is a left winger isolated on the touchline. When you get the ball the chances of cutting inside and shooting on your right foot are limited as you are far wider.
When you are the left forward in a three you are far more infield and in better goalscoring areas when you receive the ball.

Yes in 4-3-3 you play as inside forward and the left of 3 Central midfielders is normaly asked to cross the ball or move in to support with the LB making a 3 on 2 vs the defence.

In 4-4-2 a LM is more an inside out player and needs to bomb down the wing to draw out the RB on thier team to make space for the forwards or put holes in the defence as some put it.

Any forward I think should be able to play in 4-3-3 and do a job as an inside forward but putting a forward as a RM or LM and they are not skilled in those areas he will be highly inefficient.

[maypaxvobiscum]

It does make me chuckle that there are people out there who think that a player with 10% skill can play for one of the biggest clubs in World football and hold down a position in one of the strongest national teams.

Hilarity does not come better than that!

looking at the pathetic state of our squad, we're not as "big" as we wish to be in the creative department especially since Garcia left. we only have Benny, an inconsistent Babel and Torres who are skillful.