Liverpool FC Forum

[account deleted by request]

well let's look at the cases of Xabi and Dirk according to some people on here...

Xabi creates or is creative but he doesn't score enough goals...

Dirk scores and assists but he's not creative...

Now there's a pattern isn't there? What do these people want? a feckin Diego Maradona or a Roberto Baggio? 

Maybe you are onto something there mate. Perhaps as you say thats the reason we didn't win the league last season?

[baldricks_cunning_plan]

Kuyt is needed in our side. Last year he proved his worth comfortably. More goals than anybody other than Nando and Stevie along with more assists than anybody other than Stevie.

The only problem with having somebody like Kuyt, is you need quality on the other flank. We had that for half a season from Riera and half a season from Yossi.

Look at others we've had in that position.

Case - tireless runner who had Heighway down the left to glide past the defenders.
Lee - tireless runner who had Heighway and to some extent Craig Johnston.
Houghton - tireless runner who had Barnes to do the flashy winger's job.

None of those three were great footballers, but ran their knackers off for the club in the same way Kuyt does. Dirk is very much needed in this squad.

[Penguins]

Well, Alonso is perfect to include in my view of Kuyt.

Why?

Well, Alonso for me could pick a pass from anywhere and had technique and vision that was top class. He could sometimes boss a game hardly making an errant pass in a whole game.

Still the stats say he wasn't very good. He hardly ever scored and he never got any assists. But every damn person watching the games could see he was a class player.

Well, I think you all know where I am going with this, but this is how I feel with Kuyt.

Kuyt at the time was bought as a striker for a big sum at the time and was supposed to lead our line. His 1st season was a bit up and down and overall did ok.

Then the following season he was pisspoor for the 1st half of the season playing every damn game no matter what never being dropped. What happened to Crouch and Keane?
They got dropped even after scoring in games. But Rafa forgotten son? A big no.
How many times did I not swear and asked myself why not even once Rafa at least substituted him. I can remember many games you very astounded by which players that did get substituted instead of him.
Finally even Rafa understood that it was killing us to be playing Kuyt as a striker. What does he do?
Play the right midfielders we had?
NO, Kuyt just had to be included somehow and never mind that he had been bought as a striker, played his whole career as a striker and never been a right midfielder, Rafa couldn't leave him outside the starting 11.
And sure, he picks up rebounds and scores in the 6 yard box, but what about his overall play?

Is it just me who sees what a limited FOOTBALL player he really is?

Inter away is the perfect example. Everyone is going to see
if they look at the scoringsheet that we won 1-0 and Kuyt played the whole game. So what is problem?

I'll tell ya. I saw that game and Kuyt was atroicus. In the end Inter just vacated that side so all the balls could come to Kuyt so he could mishandle the ball and the move would break down.

What I am saying is that we could do better with a real right attacking midfielder. One who has skill, technique, pace, creativity, can take on a player and so on and so on.
Maybe then Rafa isn't forced to buy a defender behind Kuyt that has to help the attack and that has some skill and can take on a player

I'm sorry, but this is how I see it.
I would still have him a as squad player and start him vs manure, Chelski away but never never ever vs Stoke, Hull etc!

[Owzat]

well let's look at the cases of Xabi and Dirk according to some people on here...

Xabi creates or is creative but he doesn't score enough goals...

Dirk scores and assists but he's not creative...

Now there's a pattern isn't there? What do these people want? a feckin Diego Maradona or a Roberto Baggio? 

Maybe you are onto something there mate. Perhaps as you say thats the reason we didn't win the league last season?

Some will say Xabi assists the assister, but surely the crucial elements in the game are these - the contact that puts the ball in the net and the final pass/touch/deflection that puts the ball in the area that results in the contact that puts the ball in the net.

Doesn't matter if the pass or cross is deflected, not quite perfect and the shooter needs to adjust, or even if it was a fluke, as long as it ends up on the scorer's knee, shin, head, shoulder, back, ar se or even foot and goes between the posts it is a goal. So the essentials are it gets to the scorer and the scorer scores - simples.

So whether Alonso plays a 50 yard perfect ball onto let's say Riera's left foot and all Riera has to do is pull it back, well the "all Riera has to do is" part is more important than Alonso's perfect ball because a miskick, miscontrol or inaccuracy on the part of Riera will mean no goal. Same with the striker. So all the fancy passing, dribbling, step-overs etc in the world count for FA if the ball doesn't end up in the back of the net. You don't win games 15-10 on perfect passes, the only stats that count are goals and while all passes in a move contribute to the goal, they're nothing without a final pass and finish. Perhaps why Pepe decided to cut out the middle man a few times!

So Kuyt is no Maradona, no Ronaldo, and arguably no Gerrard. But are we expecting too much when some of us talk of replacing him with someone "better"? I've seen plenty of LFC fans suggest they want a RM who beats his man and gets to the by-line, but frankly I'm happy with an RM chipping in 10+ goals and 7+ assists because all the fancy dans who beat their man and manage to get in crosses tend to score less and assist less than Kuyt. Maybe their contribution in flow and build up is better, but at least Kuyt's contribution is measurable and not just perceived. Kuyt may not have been as influential as Ronaldo, but for someone as poor as quite a few on here make out in terms of touch, flow, etc he does a pretty good job and I for one am keen that we don't gamble and look for "better".

For me the left flank, centre back and "deep lying playmaker" are priorities before replacing one of our best performers of last season. Start where we do need improving the most, not where improvement is quite likely possible but not a major concern. Maybe if players like Alonso, Riera and Mascherano had contributed more goals and assists we'd have won the league, I don't see them get half as much criticism as Kuyt. I'm not saying they should have contributed as many assists, but for someone as creative as Alonso and for a winger in Riera, their stats were shall we say 'underwhelming'

[Seress]

In your opinion it is mick but not in mine - only have to look at the winners and the important crucial goals he scored for us throughout the season to show how damn important he was for us . the goal against leige alone was massively important . so yes i do believe he was damn important for us last season , and we wouldnt of been as successful if he didnt play last season .

There's a backtrack there and so there should be. Nobodies denying that he wasn't important/had a good season, but he wasn't AS IMPORTANT AS ANY OTHER PLAYER ON THE PITCH.

You say it's a matter of opinion, it isn't unfortunately, it's a matter of fact. It's like me saying I'm a better goalie than Pepe Reina in my opinion, it renders my contribution meaningless as I've proven myself to be a numptie.

Rafa Benitez believes the 'ugly' work done by Dirk Kuyt is just as important to Liverpool as the goals of Fernando Torres and Steven Gerrard.

ugly work just as important

I hate to bring up something three pages ago,but i think it's fair.

[Zidane]

Anyone who doesn't think Kuyt was an important player last season is just a fool.  As ugly as he may be, as ugly as he may play the man is as effective as anyone and if we expect to replicate it we will need him to maintain his form.  Just give the guy some credit for once.  Right now at this specific moment in time there really aren't many better RM's in the world today.  I just pray he can keep it up as I have always been skeptical about him but he won me over last season.. for now at least.

[bigmick]

Anyone who doesn't think Kuyt was an important player last season is just a fool.  As ugly as he may be, as ugly as he may play the man is as effective as anyone and if we expect to replicate it we will need him to maintain his form.  Just give the guy some credit for once.  Right now at this specific moment in time there really aren't many better RM's in the world today.  I just pray he can keep it up as I have always been skeptical about him but he won me over last season.. for now at least.

This is precisely the point though mate, I haven't seen anyone deny that he was an important player for us last season. I haven't seen anyone deny that based on last season, he's well worth his place in the team. Nobody can deny he scored loads of goals for a right midfielder, because, well because he did . Nobody has denied any of those things, and pretty much most people agree that he is the second best out of our current options at right midfield behind Gerrard, but no shame in that and besides the captain is going to play off Torres anyway.

So once we establish that, why is there an argument then?

Well, the spat this morning started because a poster made the claim that Kuyt was as important as any other player in the squad. Once it was pointed out that this was streching the point somewhat, the row broke out. It was stretching the point somewhat obviously, as Gerrard and Torres are the main players (as confirmed by Ferguson), but taking aside such outlandish claims, he is certainly AN important player for us, no doubt about that.

[Judge]

The sooner you accept Kuyt is an important part of our team and he was one of our best performers last season, the sooner this whole sorry state of affairs can be put to bed. It's beyond tiresome.

Dont think anyone argued against that in the first place...
His goals were vital to our achievements of last season.

tbf, we didnt achieve anything last year - we fell short in all competitions

[bunglemark2]

Valid point, mate....Another season without silverware. I don't think I can handle too many more of these...

And FWIW, I don't believe he is the most skilful or talented player we have, buy by jaysus he would shame many of the squad with his effort, workrate and commitment. That's one of the things I admire about him most of all. He's like the Energizer Bunny.....

[Judge]

looks like one aswell

[bunglemark2]

He looks like Iain Dowie in a way....they used to play the theme music from the X-Files when he walked onto Upton Park.....pi$$ed meself laughing when I heard it....

[Judge]

He looks like Iain Dowie in a way....they used to play the theme music from the X-Files when he walked onto Upton Park.....pi$$ed meself laughing when I heard it....

imagine if we played the goonies music when deadly dirk enters the pitch 

[GYBS]

In his first season Kuyt scored 12 in 34 games playing up front in the prem- a striker plus another 1 each in europe and 1 in fa cup - 14 goals in total playing purely as a striker

In his second season He scored 3 in 32 games playing up front or playing out right in the prem plus 7 in europe and 1 in the FA cup - 11 goals in total playing as a striker or right forward

In his third season he scored 12 in the prem plus 2 in europe and 1 in the FA cup - so total 15 goals in the seasom playing as a right forward -

Also interesting to see that a lot of kuyts goals(winners , equalisers ) came late in the game after he had been moved up front alongside Torres when we were chasing a result

For me the stats show that he isnt inept up front as a striker as some claim - whilst he isnt a goal machine his contributions have been good throughout the season whilst also being pretty consistent so can expect him to once again score ten - 15 goals for us again this season wether up front or right forward

[bunglemark2]

I've always rated Kuyt I have to say....
He gets a helluva lot of unfair criticism from certain persons on this forum (and you know who you are) but his contribution is second to none (and I mean that).
His goals are generally key game deciders or at least turning points, and it's hardly his fault that he plays out of his favoured position. But fair dues to him, he just gets on with it and gives it his all...

[heimdall]

I've always rated Kuyt I have to say....
He gets a helluva lot of unfair criticism from certain persons on this forum (and you know who you are) but his contribution is second to none (and I mean that).
His goals are generally key game deciders or at least turning points, and it's hardly his fault that he plays out of his favoured position. But fair dues to him, he just gets on with it and gives it his all...

he works his butt off, no argument about that and he has become a fairly good RM but as a striker he is no good.  He is an ok goal poacher but if you compare his goals to for example Torres then there is no comparison, Torres has more shooting skill in his toenail then Kuyt has in his entire body. Can anyone remember Kuyt scoring a goal from more than 6 yards out for example? it certainly hasn't happened often.