Liverpool FC Forum

[DrPepe]

I think Kuyt has always had the "support" of everybody, it's just that many people didn't rate him as a footballer. Some still don't, and I myself am far from convinced that he is the answer on a permanent basis to our right side of midfield slot.

As for the opinions offered by a banned poster that Flether and Park would get games in our first team, I'm not really sure what's so outlandish here. It is after all an opinion, which first and formost it is worth pointing out that people are entitled to have. Further, he is talking about two players who have featured heavily for Man U, it's not like he is saying two Hull players would get lots of games for us. FWIW I think Park is a good player, and Flethcer is a country mile a better option than Lucas as of now so I don't find his opinion that strange to be perfectly honest.

As for the best player of the season, it's neither Kuyt nor Alonso. It's the same bloke it always is, by an absolute distance, miles and miles and miles. They should have a player of the year award and not include him in it because it renders the whole thing a nonsense. Without him we'd be nowhere near the top of the league. Steven Gerrard by the distance from my computer to Melwood.

gerrard is our best player no argument


but no way i can agree he's been player of the season

[GYBS]

if it wasnt for some of kuyts goals we werent be near the top as well nor got into cl group stages

[Sabre]

kuyt having a bad touch is a myth, im not for one second saying hes zidane but he doesnt lose the ball through his touch anymore then most other players in our and other teams
you dont play regular football for us and holland if your touch is as bad as some people on here make kuyts out to be

I like Kuyt mate, I appreciate his importance when we haven't the ball, and I think he's really useful for the squad. I love his attitude, and I'm also happy with his assists and goals.

However I can't agree this. His touch really is bad, if what you mean by touch is how he receives the passes of his team mates. Too often this season I've seen him missing a ball that he should have controlled better, bounced a half meter.

[Feeney]

kuyt having a bad touch is a myth, im not for one second saying hes zidane but he doesnt lose the ball through his touch anymore then most other players in our and other teams

Eh? Are we watching the same player here?

I end up winsing when I see a lofted ball heading towards Kuyt for fear that he's going to lose it. I would say a good 50% of the time, his second touch is a tackle.

Workrate, commitment, desire - all yes.

Touch, finishing and vision - hell no.

[bigmick]

SORRY SHOULD HAVE QOUTED GYBS HERE. HE ASKED DO I THINK EVERYONE SUPPORTED KUYT.

Yes I do. I think people on here confuse "support" with opinion, and it happens all the time. It's exactly the same when you come on here to discuss a technical point, how we conceded a goal or something and you get "get behind the team FFS!!!!! ". It doesn't matter how often you explain to people that this is an internet forum, discussing how a goal was conceded/who was at fault isn't being disloyal or not getting behind the team, people still get fired up about it.

My guess is that most everyone who is a Liverpool supporter wants whoever is wearing the shirt in a particular game to play well, because you want to win the match. I'd support you GYBS if Rafa stuck you up front, but it wouldn't stop me talking about the madness of the idea afterwards, or stop somebody from starting a "GYBS, I know it's early but FFS!!!" thread. If you were selected again for the next match, I would whinge on here but it doesn't mean I wouldn't want you to do well, I want the team to win. If I was at the ground (big difference) I wouldn't be getting stuck into any Liverpool player.

Now the people who backed Kuyt to the hilt, even when his performances were absolutely cringeworthy on a regular basis have to a large extent been proven right in the sense that he is a now a decent player. I don't myself buy into this idea that he is the second best right midfielder in the Premiership because he's having a good season scoring goals, but unquestionably he has improved. There will come a point though in the not too distant future where we will need to analyse how and why little clubs can come to Anfield and so regularly park the bus with relative ease, before taking a point and costing us the league. Most of the reason is that the manager has been far too defensive, recent performances and results have pretty much proven that IMHO although obviously people will deny it. that's not the whole reason though. We can't just go into next season saying, "lets just attack more and we'll win it", we are going to need to look at how we attack as well. Given that Kuyt never beats a player, is paceless, doesn't overlap and in many ways stifles our fluency he will come inder the microscope. It may well be that his goals when he reverts to effectively being a striker and attacking balls coming in from the left outwiegh the negatives. If though next season it doesn't bounce in off someone when he swings at it as it has with unerring regularity this time around, we may yet again be revisiting the Kuyt debate with earnest.

[GYBS]

guess we will have to agree to disagree then mick .

[bigmick]

I think Kuyt has always had the "support" of everybody, it's just that many people didn't rate him as a footballer. Some still don't, and I myself am far from convinced that he is the answer on a permanent basis to our right side of midfield slot.

As for the opinions offered by a banned poster that Flether and Park would get games in our first team, I'm not really sure what's so outlandish here. It is after all an opinion, which first and formost it is worth pointing out that people are entitled to have. Further, he is talking about two players who have featured heavily for Man U, it's not like he is saying two Hull players would get lots of games for us. FWIW I think Park is a good player, and Flethcer is a country mile a better option than Lucas as of now so I don't find his opinion that strange to be perfectly honest.

As for the best player of the season, it's neither Kuyt nor Alonso. It's the same bloke it always is, by an absolute distance, miles and miles and miles. They should have a player of the year award and not include him in it because it renders the whole thing a nonsense. Without him we'd be nowhere near the top of the league. Steven Gerrard by the distance from my computer to Melwood.

gerrard is our best player no argument


but no way i can agree he's been player of the season

It depends how you measure it mate I suppose. Gerrard has scored twenty odd goals or whatever it is and very likely made around the same number. He is currently by common consent one of the top handful if not THE best player in the World. Without him in the team on a regualr basis we'd be a fair way back off the top IMHO, he remains our best and most important player by a distance.

Now you could legitimately say that both Kuyt and Alonso have played right at the very top of their game all season, and in that sense they deserve player of the year. Is player of the year a measure of how well you could have possibly performed given your natural tools, or is it simply who has been the best player?

If it's who has been the best player then obviously there's no debate. If it's who has been the best player which THEY could possibly have been, then i'd go with Alonso personally. Kuyt would be right up there though there's no doubt about it.

[DrPepe]

"kuyt never beats a player" my ar se 

not one of the things you see him doing most often, because he doesn't have the pace to "hit and run" past players, but he does have the skills , and often creates space behind defenders by clever touches.

A player with that many assists (and he had lots last season too) is obviously doingsomething correctly in the attacking third. 

it's our left wing where we need major re-surgery imo

[bigmick]

"kuyt never beats a player" My. . 

Ah the old embarassed smiley, the "I am talking to a numpty" one.

Fair enough, we'll leave it there and agree to differ   

[RedBlood]

kuyt having a bad touch is a myth, im not for one second saying hes zidane but he doesnt lose the ball through his touch anymore then most other players in our and other teams

Eh? Are we watching the same player here?

I end up winsing when I see a lofted ball heading towards Kuyt for fear that he's going to lose it. I would say a good 50% of the time, his second touch is a tackle.

Workrate, commitment, desire - all yes.

Touch, finishing and vision - hell no.

thats your opinion mate and your entitled but i would love to see actual stats to back it up, because i dont think kuyt loses the ball anywhere near 50% of the time

and like i said im not saying hes zidane but the way people go on you would think his first touch is as bad as anyones in the league

infact im sure ozwart (is that his name??) could find some stats

[DrPepe]

kuyt having a bad touch is a myth, im not for one second saying hes zidane but he doesnt lose the ball through his touch anymore then most other players in our and other teams

Eh? Are we watching the same player here?

I end up winsing when I see a lofted ball heading towards Kuyt for fear that he's going to lose it. I would say a good 50% of the time, his second touch is a tackle.

Workrate, commitment, desire - all yes.

Touch, finishing and vision - hell no.

thats your opinion mate and your entitled but i would love to see actual stats to back it up, because i dont think kuyt loses the ball anywhere near 50% of the time

and like i said im not saying hes zidane but the way people go on you would think his first touch is as bad as anyones in the league

infact im sure ozwart (is that his name??) could find some stats

i did start to look around for pass completion rate and/or number of passes for individuals in our team and the rest of the PL - that would be useful in this kind of discussion

my feelings are that he spends a hell of a lot of time on the ball for a player in his position (along with the obvious amount of work he does in a match  )

[bigmick]

i did start to look around for pass completion rate and/or number of passes for individuals in our team and the rest of the PL - that would be useful in this kind of discussion

Why would it be useful? I personally think you might as well talk about the number of keepy uppies someone does in warm up.

Pass completion. So a bloke who gets the ball and squares it fifteen yards every time gets 100%, whereas a bloke who tries to play people in manages it two out of five gets 40% and it proves what?

You can't judge a footballer by paying too much attention to such nonsense.

[GYBS]

i guess it would be useful cause people talk about him giving the ball away a lot ?

[DrPepe]

i did start to look around for pass completion rate and/or number of passes for individuals in our team and the rest of the PL - that would be useful in this kind of discussion

Why would it be useful? I personally think you might as well talk about the number of keepy uppies someone does in warm up.

Pass completion. So a bloke who gets the ball and squares it fifteen yards every time gets 100%, whereas a bloke who tries to play people in manages it two out of five gets 40% and it proves what?

You can't judge a footballer by paying too much attention to such nonsense.

fair enough.

from what i see of Dirk, he doesn't give the ball away excessively and doesn't have a poor first touch

i won't back that up with anything solid , cos facts are just nonsense 

Except for goals.... oh, and assists. And red/yellow cards. And fouls, wins , draws....

[bigmick]

i guess it would be useful cause people talk about him giving the ball away a lot ?

And so he does, which is why you can dilude yourself when looking at stats. He gives the ball away usually by miscontrolling it, not by passing it to the wrong colour shirt. He also causes our attacks to lose momentum on occasions by having to turn back on himself through poor control. Neither of those things will show up on stats, infact in the second instance as long as he lays it back to Arbeloa, he will rack up another completed pass for the stats boys.

Look I think he has done well and has improved massively. I made the point in my posts earlier before the good doctor came in with his nonsense.