Liverpool FC Forum

[66-1112520797]

I just don't see why you would leave a player of the quality of either Gerrard, Mascherano or Alonso on the bench when they offer such different qualities and Gerrard is so much more than just a central midfielder.

he is more mate but why weaken him by playing him on the right just so we can get alonso and mash in the team, that doesnt make sense, of course i know some people say he is better on the right so to them this will work.

its all opinions mate

This is worse than rotation.

Okay, Mascha and Alonso in the middle, nah not for me too negative. Its been tried before and tbf it didnt work at all. That was also playing Gerrard wide, when Gerrard is played wide the team suffer, we lose shape balance and we often find it harder to get Gerrard into the game, ala Chelsea at the Bridge last seasons CL semi's.

On paper Gerrard Mascha Alonso Kewell, does look good, but in practise it doesnt work like that. Gerrard goes "roaming" so Steve Finnan loses a) cover and b) an outlet. The team have no width or shape, unless Gerrard stays right like Pennant does, but he doesnt. Playing a right mid IMO needs to be disciplined in running the line, in fact the only position in a football team that doesnt require discipline is the central attacking midfielder who sits behind the striker. He has the free license to roam. But you cannot ask Gerrard who's deployed RM to roam, the team lose balance, shape and width.

Then by having ALonso and Mascha in the middle, you have no forward drive, no creativity in the way of pushing on into the final third and making something happen from there. Both Alonso's game and Mascha's arent about the final third, there games about the defensive third and the midfield area, not the final third. Nothing effective enough comes from the center in an attacking threat when these two are paired together. Its awful to watch, its lame, devoid of ideas and for the want of a better word negative.
For me Gerrard has to play there, he's our only natural box to box midfield. Who can track back and yes he is disciplined to do so, in one moment. Then drive the team up the other end of the field in the next. When he ticks Liverpool ticks, he ticks in his customary role 9/10 when he's deployed through the middle. Hasnt he scored 11 goals now in 13 games through the middle ? Note aswell credit has to go to Mascha for this, IMO he gives Gerrard even more license to barn storm forward than Xabi does, didnt you see how deep Gerrard played against Derby ?

[account deleted by request]

I just don't see why you would leave a player of the quality of either Gerrard, Mascherano or Alonso on the bench when they offer such different qualities and Gerrard is so much more than just a central midfielder.

he is more mate but why weaken him by playing him on the right just so we can get alonso and mash in the team, that doesnt make sense, of course i know some people say he is better on the right so to them this will work.

its all opinions mate

This is worse than rotation.

Okay, Mascha and Alonso in the middle, nah not for me too negative. Its been tried before and tbf it didnt work at all. That was also playing Gerrard wide, when Gerrard is played wide the team suffer, we lose shape balance and we often find it harder to get Gerrard into the game, ala Chelsea at the Bridge last seasons CL semi's.

On paper Gerrard Mascha Alonso Kewell, does look good, but in practise it doesnt work like that. Gerrard goes "roaming" so Steve Finnan loses a) cover and b) an outlet. The team have no width or shape, unless Gerrard stays right like Pennant does, but he doesnt. Playing a right mid IMO needs to be disciplined in running the line, in fact the only position in a football team that doesnt require discipline is the central attacking midfielder who sits behind the striker. He has the free license to roam. But you cannot ask Gerrard who's deployed RM to roam, the team lose balance, shape and width.

Then by having ALonso and Mascha in the middle, you have no forward drive, no creativity in the way of pushing on into the final third and making something happen from there. Both Alonso's game and Mascha's arent about the final third, there games about the defensive third and the midfield area, not the final third. Nothing effective enough comes from the center in an attacking threat when these two are paired together. Its awful to watch, its lame, devoid of ideas and for the want of a better word negative.
For me Gerrard has to play there, he's our only natural box to box midfield. Who can track back and yes he is disciplined to do so, in one moment. Then drive the team up the other end of the field in the next. When he ticks Liverpool ticks, he ticks in his customary role 9/10 when he's deployed through the middle. Hasnt he scored 11 goals now in 13 games through the middle ? Note aswell credit has to go to Mascha for this, IMO he gives Gerrard even more license to barn storm forward than Xabi does, didnt you see how deep Gerrard played against Derby ?

Sorry to dash your well thought out theory, but we beat Derby 6 -0 with Masch and Alonso playing in the middle 

[66-1112520797]

If at first you dont succeed pick yourself up and try again, I'm sure this was the case with  Alonso & Mascha against the worst team in the league.

BTW Saint you didnt "dash" it, how many times can you compare that combination to that of say Gerrards and Mascha's ?

[ruskiy playmaker]

Bamaga man-I have to disagree with you about Gerrard and Masch midfield.  I think the team has no balance and our football looks awful most of the time.  There is just not enough creativity with those two in the midfield.  This is why we need Alonso, he's like our Pirlo.  His creative mind and his passing brings balance to the  midfield.  We actually look like we can play good passing football with him in the team.  I am not really bothered where Gerrard plays as long as Alonso's in the midfield.

[112-1077774096]

Bamaga man-I have to disagree with you about Gerrard and Masch midfield.  I think the team has no balance and our football looks awful most of the time.  There is just not enough creativity with those two in the midfield.  This is why we need Alonso, he's like our Pirlo.  His creative mind and his passing brings balance to the  midfield.  We actually look like we can play good passing football with him in the team.  I am not really bothered where Gerrard plays as long as Alonso's in the midfield.

yeah mate, we looked absolute world beaters agaisnt derby   

[bigmick]

Bamaga man-I have to disagree with you about Gerrard and Masch midfield.  I think the team has no balance and our football looks awful most of the time.  There is just not enough creativity with those two in the midfield.  This is why we need Alonso, he's like our Pirlo.  His creative mind and his passing brings balance to the  midfield.  We actually look like we can play good passing football with him in the team.  I am not really bothered where Gerrard plays as long as Alonso's in the midfield.

I think that's a very odd post if you don't mind me saying so. "I'm not really bothered where Gerrard plays as long as Alonso's in the midfield"? Are you sure, do you really mean that?

Look I know some people really rate Alonso and he's a smashing player, there's no doubt about it. But let's be absolutely serious here, you and others are comparing him to a bloke who scores double figures every single season from midfield. He scores against bad teams, good teams, In Europe, free kicks, headers, long shots, rebounds. He goes box to box for ninety minutes, is an inspirational tackler and probably in the top four or five players in the World.

I know amongst some of the Anfield goers and native Liverpudlians there is a bit of anti towards Gerrard, Stevie Me and all that but in the cold light of day with an unbiased view, you are talking about a player who would probably get in any Liverpool team which has ever taken the field. Just because so far he has been a one club man and is from the city I do think that sometimes people allow that to cloud their judgement and don't give the fella the credit he deserves.

Rate Alonso by all means, he's a good player and is deserving of appreciation. Argue till the cows come home about Alonso/Masherano and who is better at their respective jobs, but please save the Alonso/Gerrard comparisons for Championship manager.

[The_Rock]

Bamaga man-I have to disagree with you about Gerrard and Masch midfield.  I think the team has no balance and our football looks awful most of the time.  There is just not enough creativity with those two in the midfield.  This is why we need Alonso, he's like our Pirlo.  His creative mind and his passing brings balance to the  midfield.  We actually look like we can play good passing football with him in the team.  I am not really bothered where Gerrard plays as long as Alonso's in the midfield.

yeah mate, we looked absolute world beaters agaisnt derby   

Lets face it.....Gerrard is a better player than Alonso or Mash. We have to build the team around him and not around players who aren't as good as him.

With Gerrard playing on the RW, he tends to cut in a lot and this has 2 impacts

1)Our central midfield becomes conjested.
2)We lose "our edge" on the right flank.


Yeah...i know gerrard scored over 20 goals from the right flank..... but how many of them were scored in the pre-lim rounds of the champions league ?

And how many of those goals he scored when he was in the centre of the midfield (eg...FA cup final) ?

Least you guys forget....we also had cisse who although started up front up ended up in the RW ......

The gist of it.....Gerrard on the RW and he loses his edge. Gerrard in the middle with Mash...give them a few games, and look at the number of goals he has scored recently.....


Build the team around Gerrard..... 

[ruskiy playmaker]

peewe-Every team has bad days.  There are a lot of reasons why the team looked so bad against derby.  Maybe it was because of heavy rotation, bad tactics or Gerrard and Alonso just forgot how to play football together I don't know.  But I do remember that we played very positive football at the beginning of the season before Alonso's injury.  I'm not saying Alonso is the answer to all our problems, but I think we play better football with him in the team.

[66-1112520797]

Bamaga man-I have to disagree with you about Gerrard and Masch midfield.  I think the team has no balance and our football looks awful most of the time.  There is just not enough creativity with those two in the midfield.  This is why we need Alonso, he's like our Pirlo.  His creative mind and his passing brings balance to the  midfield.  We actually look like we can play good passing football with him in the team.  I am not really bothered where Gerrard plays as long as Alonso's in the midfield.

Thats fair enough fella.

But to say you dont care where Gerrard plays so long as Xabi is in the midfield is nonsical IMO mate.

You say there isnt enough creativity in the middle between Gerrard and Mascha. Well I can go one better and say there is 'end product' our captain has scored something like 11 goals in 13 games. For all the  creativity in the world the most important thing for that is 'end product'.

People rave on about how our attacks start when Xabi's playing in the side, and how he is intially the beginner of a move that ends up with us scoring. Well I've watched Mascha over the past two months, and I've seen exactly the same thing from him. He breaks up the oppositions play much better than Xabi and distributes the ball, starting off countless moves. Granted he doesnt have the range of passing that Alonso has, but its not imperitive a player in his position has the 'hollywood ball' in his locker. Like Hamman Mascha plays it simple, but it can be just as effective.

Also Mascha carries the ball better IMO, he is quicker and more controlled, more direct with the ball at his feet. He has quicker pace to cover ground and is probably one of the top two tacklers at the club.

I personally havent looked forward to Xabi's return, at the risk of sounding controversial I havent. As the Mascha/Gerrard partnership that has been formed has gelled well, and they are both settled and doing a fantastic job. With Xabi's return Rafa's got to edge Xabi back into the side, and IMO its going to break up the partnership and rythm of the two CM's currently deployed there.

I also think Gerrard would prefer to play alongside Mascha than he would Alonso. I obviously dont no and I'm hazarding a guess here. But Mascha allows Gerrard to play his game full flow, Alonso doesnt. The Alonso Gerrard partnership has never really hit it off after three seasons of football, but in the short time Mascha's been here and staked a place in the side, their partnership has been much better than that anything of Gerrard Xabi have produced in the past.

[ruskiy playmaker]

Bamaga man-You've made some good points there.  And I think that Gerrard and Masch is the future.  But I'm still not sure if Mascherano is ready yet to take away Alonso's spot in the team.  To me he just does not have playmaking ability yet to link up the team.  Yes we have got some very good results recently and Gerrard has been scoring but far too many times the team looks like it has no rhythm.  But if you want to see more fluency in the team than Alonso is the way to go right now.  Plus Alonso contributes with goals and Mascherano has yet to score his first goal for Liverpool.

[112-1077774096]

peewe-Every team has bad days.  There are a lot of reasons why the team looked so bad against derby.  Maybe it was because of heavy rotation, bad tactics or Gerrard and Alonso just forgot how to play football together I don't know.  But I do remember that we played very positive football at the beginning of the season before Alonso's injury.  I'm not saying Alonso is the answer to all our problems, but I think we play better football with him in the team.

mate i was being devils advocate and yanking your chain, but the fact is that we should not be making allowances for other players just to shoe horn them into the team, gerrard is at his best in the center partnered with mash, if that means less game for alonso for the good of the team then so be it

[Toffeehater]

The reason Gerrard may have been below par could be the fact that both he and Torres were recovering from food poisoning.

You being sarcastic mate?

[Toffeehater]

I just dont understand how Alonso is our "most important player" Reina, Carra, Mascha, Gerrard and Torres are more important than Alonso IMHO, we havent missed him. Now though, with him back we run the risk of fecking up our best CM pairing who have been generally brilliant over the last few months or so.

I agree with you on one point and one point only Xavi is not OUR most important player.
But thats it im afraid because imo he is one of them, The lad has vision for playing a ball and to feet like very few in the prem. Its not liverpool getting rid of the ball or lumping it up the park when hes on the pitch and yes i do believe hes a better passer of the ball than Masherano, im not saying hes a better player cause theve each got there own individual strenghts.

But you cant blame our poor performance on Alonsos pairing in the middle with Gerrard yesterday because i thought Alonso played fine for his first start . The team played as a unit
Anyway i for one am glad to see him back

Is this our first fight treacle

correct nanny , when we were losing against man united , that is whr instead of pumping hollywood balls , we could have passed accurate , long balls like what alonso would offer . Alonso and gerrard are 2 different players , when we are losing gerrard is always eager to get us back and deserts his role , alonso although would stay in his role , passes long and accurate balls , what we have missed is his ability to pass and break down tight defenses with that 1 key pass , and alonso is the 1 man who can do that better than any other

[Toffeehater]

Bamaga man-I have to disagree with you about Gerrard and Masch midfield.  I think the team has no balance and our football looks awful most of the time.  There is just not enough creativity with those two in the midfield.  This is why we need Alonso, he's like our Pirlo.  His creative mind and his passing brings balance to the  midfield.  We actually look like we can play good passing football with him in the team.  I am not really bothered where Gerrard plays as long as Alonso's in the midfield.

yeah mate, we looked absolute world beaters agaisnt derby   

lol pee wee , u gonna get another card soon if u keep that up mate 

[Toffeehater]

Bamaga man-You've made some good points there.  And I think that Gerrard and Masch is the future.  But I'm still not sure if Mascherano is ready yet to take away Alonso's spot in the team.  To me he just does not have playmaking ability yet to link up the team.  Yes we have got some very good results recently and Gerrard has been scoring but far too many times the team looks like it has no rhythm.  But if you want to see more fluency in the team than Alonso is the way to go right now.  Plus Alonso contributes with goals and Mascherano has yet to score his first goal for Liverpool.

mascherano rarely ventures foward mate , u can't compare but he cleans up the mess that the defence or the team as made , he's something like a maid