Liverpool FC Forum

[Greavesie]

harmed everyone else tho

What i was trying to say is that saying Adam cant tackle is not exactly ground breaking News and certainly not on the levels we have seen in regards Lucas and Kuyt in recent years so in my opinion Bob has overreacted a tiny bit in terms of polarizing opinions etc .

'can't tackle' and 'tackles like Scholes' carry different connotations

[Benny The Noon]

harmed everyone else tho

What i was trying to say is that saying Adam cant tackle is not exactly ground breaking News and certainly not on the levels we have seen in regards Lucas and Kuyt in recent years so in my opinion Bob has overreacted a tiny bit in terms of polarizing opinions etc .

'can't tackle' and 'tackles like Scholes' carry different connotations

They mean the same IMO

Scholes couldnt tackle as well .

[Greavesie]

harmed everyone else tho

What i was trying to say is that saying Adam cant tackle is not exactly ground breaking News and certainly not on the levels we have seen in regards Lucas and Kuyt in recent years so in my opinion Bob has overreacted a tiny bit in terms of polarizing opinions etc .

'can't tackle' and 'tackles like Scholes' carry different connotations

They mean the same IMO

Scholes couldnt tackle as well .

I disagree, if you say a player can't tackle I just assume he's bad at it

If you say 'he tackles like Shcoles' I assume he hurts people 90% of the time with high foot challenges

[Benny The Noon]

harmed everyone else tho

What i was trying to say is that saying Adam cant tackle is not exactly ground breaking News and certainly not on the levels we have seen in regards Lucas and Kuyt in recent years so in my opinion Bob has overreacted a tiny bit in terms of polarizing opinions etc .

'can't tackle' and 'tackles like Scholes' carry different connotations

They mean the same IMO

Scholes couldnt tackle as well .

I disagree, if you say a player can't tackle I just assume he's bad at it

If you say 'he tackles like Shcoles' I assume he hurts people 90% of the time with high foot challenges

Scholes was just a bad tackler - he wasnt nasty he was just ill timed in his tackling .

I really cant remember Scholes injuring too many people and definatly not high tackles - are you sure your not thinking of Keane 

[Bad Bob]

I'm not yet ready to put him in the "Ginger Ninja" (   ) camp of bad tackling.   In fact, from what I saw in the first half, I think he can stick a foot in just fine.  As aCe' has pointed out, his major liability is his lack of pace but, as Alonso has demonstrated (and forgive the persistent Alonso/Adam comparison that tends to crop up), you don't need to be a speed merchant to play CM effectively if you have a good positional sense.  I think Adam will be fine but, as others have suggested, he might ultimately be better suited as one of a midfield three.

As for the Lucas/Kuyt debate comparison, Benny, I wasn't saying we've got there yet--just that this is how it begins.  Someone says something positive about a player and someone else, who doesn't quite rate the lad on the same level, steams in with the "what game did you watch?" and "he couldn't tackle a pack of crisps" retort.  Where does the original poster go next?  Usually in the direction of a more aggressive big up ("Adam's the best tackler we've had since Mash") and the polarization express is now rumbling out of the station, next stop handbagsville.   See what I'm saying?

[Benny The Noon]

I see what your saying but think it's a little far fetched .

As for the tackling - the player himself has said the same thing , as did Holloway , as has Kenny . I actually think he can add something to the squad and is a pretty decent player but the lad has been massively talked up like he is the new Alonso/Gerrard/Masher/ insert any great midfielder - where if I'm being honest if all our CM's are fit he wouldn't get into the starting line up . We just need to reign in the overrating the lad - when he doesn't reach high standards set by posters the inevitable "not good enough " or " " etc will start - it happened with Aquilani , the same with Keane , the same with Cole .

[Bad Bob]

II actually think he can add something to the squad and is a pretty decent player but the lad has been massively talked up

Fairy Muff 

[aCe']

I'm not yet ready to put him in the "Ginger Ninja" (   ) camp of bad tackling.   In fact, from what I saw in the first half, I think he can stick a foot in just fine.  As aCe' has pointed out, his major liability is his lack of pace but, as Alonso has demonstrated (and forgive the persistent Alonso/Adam comparison that tends to crop up), you don't need to be a speed merchant to play CM effectively if you have a good positional sense.  I think Adam will be fine but, as others have suggested, he might ultimately be better suited as one of a midfield three.

As for the Lucas/Kuyt debate comparison, Benny, I wasn't saying we've got there yet--just that this is how it begins.  Someone says something positive about a player and someone else, who doesn't quite rate the lad on the same level, steams in with the "what game did you watch?" and "he couldn't tackle a pack of crisps" retort.  Where does the original poster go next?  Usually in the direction of a more aggressive big up ("Adam's the best tackler we've had since Mash") and the polarization express is now rumbling out of the station, next stop handbagsville.   See what I'm saying?

Interesting that the Alonso thing keeps popping up... As far as I'm concerned, Alonso made up for his lack of pace with his footballing intelligence and his overall reading of the game... He knew when to pass it short, how to bring other midfielders into play, and most importantly he almost never lost possession cheaply...

Adam on the other hand is a different type of player imo. He's more attack minded and will almost always look to play the harder forward pass rather than bring others into play. He also lacks the ability to deal with opposition pressing him in the middle of the park which when coupled with the fact (supported by stats) that he loses possession a lot doesnt really make for solid foundation to build on. Again, we have to look at the player playing alongside him in the middle. Lucas. Not the most creative and certainly doesnt offer much in terms of carrying the ball or controlling the game.

Like you said, which is where we agree, he is better suited playing as part of a midfield 3 where he gets more protection and more freedom to play his natural game. I personally dont see it happening because I think Kenny is still putting a lot of emphasis on Carroll being our main outlet with Suarez playing just behind him rather than on the flank... That implies that (at least for the near future) we'll be playing a 4-4-2 rather than a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3 like many expected before the season started.. I somewhat see the logic in that given Gerrard's absence and Suarez's form (putting him on the flank and adding defensive duties is bound to diminish his offensive impact)..

Regardless, it leaves us with a decision to make regarding the central pairing (even if we might not agree with the system).. Lucas-Adam or Lucas-Meireles.. For now it seems like Adam is going to get the nod..

[Kenny Kan]

"Ginger Ninja"

Have to admit I agree with Benny, the lad can't tackle that well, or tackles like Scholes. Let's not dissect those statements and claim Benny to be polarizing views - like he said it's hardly ground breaking news.

[Scottbot]

Just watched the full 90 minutes of the Sunderland match (had only seen highlights before) and made sure I paid particular attention to our apparently fat, lazy and immobile midfielder. I thought his fitness levels looked decent enough in both 1st and 2nd half. There was no evidence to suggest he was especially puffed out or that Lucas was doing all his running for him (in fact Lucas had a poor 2nd half if you watch it back). He was still making tackles and showing for the ball throughout.

- The big difference between the first and second half yesterday was because we stopped playing through the midfield. We started hitting it into areas rather than player's feet and we were always looking to play it forward when it would have been better to simply keep it. Both downing and Suarez faded from the game and our football all got a bit industrial from there on.

- Also, they outnumbered in the midfield and Lucas and Adam (both) struggled a bit in the middle. The rest of our CM's would have also (this is a key point) struggled. I'm still not quite sure why Kenny brought on Mereilles and then played him out on the left when really (at that time) we could rearly have done with an extra body in the middle of the park.

[Kenny Kan]

I paid particular attention to our apparently fat, lazy and immobile midfielder.

What was it Bob you said about polarized views - even in a point of sarcasm.

[aCe']

Is anyone actually disputing the fact that he is fat ?

[Bad Bob]

Fat, lazy or not...he can still effectively tackle a box of Pringles--that's all I'm saying.

[Reg]

II actually think he can add something to the squad and is a pretty decent player but the lad has been massively talked up

Fairy Muff 

He's so great he was playing for FC Real Blackpool.

Apparently Tranmere couldn't stump up his bus fare.

[Kenny Kan]

II actually think he can add something to the squad and is a pretty decent player but the lad has been massively talked up

Fairy Muff 

*cough cough*

Furry Muff.